How is this Balanced? (Bard)

GIF says it all. It's ridiculous giving this much potential to one class.

http://imgur.com/a/p0sm7

It's just the way the game is played champ. It isn't about wearing down the enemy healers mana, it's about killing them within two seconds. The game is just designed to make healers quit the game rather than try and deal with it. If bard and machinist couldn't global people, then why play them over blm and smn? You just have to accept the way things are and get one shotted with no way to stop it.

edit: I also want to add this is why wolves den at a lvl 60 mode would never work, because it would literally be a game that lasts around a minute or less. The way arena pvp is designed right now can only be justified by how the Feast works.

Brd burst can be handled. sch's, smn's and whm's have virus, there's blind, there's disable, there's also... dun dun dun... Stun. It sucks, yes. But you just have to pay attention to buffs etc.

Edit: Also I suggest having the brd on focus target, not the mnk.

BRD has strong burst yes but that particular GIF that guy just got lucky he crit that Sidewinder along with the Farshot, its not like it happens everytime. Their burst is contingent on having WM up along with their buffs so if you ignore them like that they will of course blast you away no different from a BLM allowed to free cast. If you focus/pressure them to the point of forcing them to drop WM they become very noticeably weak, and all they can do is pad their dmg dealt with garbage numbers while attacking on the run since any burst done without it up will not be anywhere near as deadly. And even if they can burst every 90 seconds every other burst will have to be done without Raging Strikes up. For sidewinder to even have a chance to hit as hard as his did not only does the brd need to put up both dots (and hope the target doesn't cleanse), but then he also has to have raging strikes available on top of hoping it crits. I honestly don't think its that big of a deal. You can nerf it I guess but then there's no point in using BRD anymore. Its similar to DRG in that unlike MNK/BLM/NIN that burst is all the job has going for it. Wanderers paeon is nice and all but if thats all the job brings to the table along with mediocre burst may as well bring something else. Nerf it and ppl will just migrate to another job like MNK or MCH. Its not like the rankings are crawling with a bunch of awesome BRDs anyway the job is actually noticeably absent among the top 100 currently in primal.

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Originally Posted by DanteValentine

Edit: Also I suggest having the brd on focus target, not the mnk.

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This guy gets it.

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Originally Posted by DanteValentine

Brd burst can be handled. sch's, smn's and whm's have virus, there's blind, there's disable, there's also... dun dun dun... Stun. It sucks, yes. But you just have to pay attention to buffs etc.

Edit: Also I suggest having the brd on focus target, not the mnk.

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I'm not sure if you watched it or not but.

1) Even if he was disabled then I still would have died. Disable drops 10% dmg, and guess what? In the first clip he did 13364 damage in under a second, and in the second he did 11883 in the same time. It's broken as hell.
2) I have monk on focus and bard on primary to disable on burst, which again doesn't even matter for reasons stated in #1
3) You're asking for the impossible with stuns, smn's virusing, etc, for a group of random people who half the time is filled with new pvpers since SE got the bright idea to change the way match making works.

The fact of the matter is that bards can do more than a full bar of HP in under a second, and the only real way to avoid it is if you manage to attune right as they start casting emp arrow. Good luck doing that reliably, and even if you do you just opened yourself up to be a free LB kill. If they cast it on a party member, say a DRG who is bursting and has b4b up, then it's even more devastating.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

3) You're asking for the impossible with stuns, smn's virusing, etc, for a group of random people who half the time is filled with new pvpers since SE got the bright idea to change the way match making works.

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Maybe I should of stated this. I'm a SCH. I don't have that much trouble with brds. If I see a brd, I tell my tank, "oh hey, focus target that brd, stun when they pop buffs". BRD is the ONE job that you can actually take away ALL their burst.

And you know, people can surprise you. Make macros.

It's not like bard burst isn't obvious as hell and can be stun locked or you can cc them or los them or use carnal chill and many more things.

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

It's not like bard burst isn't obvious as hell and can be stun locked or you can cc them or los them or use carnal chill and many more things.

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Cool. You can also do this vs every other DPS, the difference is that they don't even have the ability to kill you in half a second (MCH excluded, but that's another discussion).

Yeah those dps also don't become useless after using their burst and hit like a wet noodle for the next 90+ seconds. And DRG can pretty much do the same thing. So does machinist and it's way harder to see it coming or even prevent it.

Why are you in Diurnal Sect in PvP? These ASTs are so much easier to kill than Nocturnal shield instaspammers. Suddenly getting Windbyte is the first sign you'll be bursted in a couple of seconds. You'll have Venomous Bite as your last warning and that's when you should top HP, pre-apply shield from Aspected Benefic, and be ready for Essential Dignity, Swiftcast+Benefic II or Lightspeed Benefic spam. Turning on Attunement for a few seconds is also an option, just cancel manually before it expires after the danger is gone.

Tank stuns are the bane of bard burst :( And sometimes los, but we have shadowbind for that.

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Originally Posted by DanteValentine

there's blind

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Blind does not work on BRD or MCH burst.

BRD's right now are in the same position SMN used to be in, in that they are very fearsome when their burst is available but laughably pathetic during the downtime between bursts. The SMN burst should not have been nerfed imo and BRD shouldnt now either. It has steps to set up making it very telegraphed like DRG burst and the FULLY BUFFED burst (like the one that melted OP) can only be done every 2 minutes cause of raging strikes as opposed to 90 seconds (meaning it only happens every other burst unless the BRD holds the burst till its up).

Then you take in factors such as whether or not ur target cleansed the dots b4 ur sidewinder hit (thus nerfing ur sidewinder), whether sidewinder and farshot crit, whether or not ur target los u in between burst wasting precious seconds or god forbid a tank decides to lock u down wasting time on ur buffs and negating the increased dmg and all of a sudden the dmg isnt as automatic as ppl make it out to be.

The use of blood for blood for this burst also represents an extreme danger during the burst to the bard as opposing dps can jump in to wreck you when they see it pop up (and since its +25% dmg taken u cant ride it out like u can sometimes on DRG who only take 10% therefore it may disrupt or nerf ur burst in needing to cancel it).

People see the pretty numbers in the burst and think omg the job is so overpowered nerf it nerf it! As bad ass as your GIF is making that BRD out to be that dude has like a 40% winrate this season lol, the job is fine as is.

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Why are you in Diurnal Sect in PvP? These ASTs are so much easier to kill than Nocturnal shield instaspammers.

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Noct shield spamming cannot even come close to outhealing semi-competent DPS since it received its nerf.

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Suddenly getting Windbyte is the first sign you'll be bursted in a couple of seconds. You'll have Venomous Bite as your last warning and that's when you should top HP, pre-apply shield from Aspected Benefic, and be ready for Essential Dignity, Swiftcast+Benefic II or Lightspeed Benefic spam. Turning on Attunement for a few seconds is also an option, just cancel manually before it expires after the danger is gone.

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This is all legit advice, except that it requires Noct stance which severely dwarfs your ability to party heal. I've run both, and so have all of the heavy-pvping Astros on my DC, and all agree that Diurn is the better choice. You fall way too far behind on party healing without the regens.

Even if I were noct, that's only a 750 point shield. The numbers I gave were 13600 damage in less than 1 second. Simple math:

Damage Dealt:
Disabled: 13600 * 0.90 = 12240

eHP:
Noct Shield: 10900 + 750 = 11650

So basically unless the astro plays it perfectly, disables the bard, Swiftcast is up and/or lightspeed, and are qeueud right as bard casts barrage, and heal is cast before it actually hits (since heal delay), then the Astro is dead.

Let me also mention that Barrage is instant cast EMP arrow is 1s. oGCD is 0.5 seconds. Why does this matter? Well basically from the moment Barrage goes up the Astro has 1.5 seconds to Disable the bard, be full HP, get a Noct shield off, hope no one else is hitting him to weaken that shield, queue up Swiftcast, and have bene 2 ready to cast the second Emp arrow is about to finish casting. Hopefully he's not stunned, silenced, or otherwise CC'd.

Meanwhile the bard only has to pop a few buffs, pop b4b last for the 1 second it takes to cast emp arrow, blow their cd's, and then disable b4b to be free and clear. Oh, and the healer and/or their target is dead.

This is how you play the game, the team with the better CC can pull this off, it's not about chipping away HP, it's about being strategic about stuns/silences/binds etc. and spatial awareness, if you get locked down and the BRD is left freely to do that, yes you will melt into the floor (this is why I love playing PLD in the feast, because it's CC kit is great).

Burst is a limited thing in PVP too, that BRD exhausted his whole toolkit into killing you and won't have that back up for another few minutes, so the idea is to stop him pulling it off (same applies to MCH).

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Originally Posted by Koltik

Stuff

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Try LoSing the bard, attuning the burst, timing heals to go in between it, and or out-ranging. You have plenty of options.

or stop playing ast if its so horrible that you melt to every bard you come across?

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Originally Posted by Koltik

This is all legit advice, except that it requires Noct stance which severely dwarfs your ability to party heal.

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But it's not. All Diurnal gives you are very weak healing ticks from Aspected Helios/Benefic which have never stopped any burst. In Noct, if you keep shields up, you party members basically have extra 10-15% HP at all times which is a good mitigation. Diurnal has zero mitigation. And your main party healing spell, Helios, is actually 5% stronger in Noct because of sect healing boonus. And if you'll go full Piety+Crits build those critted shields are pretty strong.

Nerf them. Both BRD and MCH.

Wouldn't surprise me if the majority of the people crying for BRD nerfs have never actually played the job for themselves.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Nerf them. Both BRD and MCH.

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Nerf ninja while we are at it. It has Fetter Ward, so unlike BRD/MCH, CC won't stop them. :^)

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

Wouldn't surprise me if the majority of the people crying for BRD nerfs have never actually played the job for themselves.

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I know it's necessary for brd to have this one shot macro, but I just think it is bad design. I personally would like to see brd more well rounded rather than have the capability to have a one shot combo that is extremely stupid when it happens. Good brds will normally always get it off, it is just the bad ones that make people think it is stoppable.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

Good brds will normally always get it off, it is just the bad ones that make people think it is stoppable.

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Cause theres so many good brds in the top 100 atm lol. The only decent one is Jermz and he hardly plays anymore. Go look at the win percentages of the career BRDs on our data center and then tell me how overpowered they are. I agree that all jobs should be well rounded like MNK but this is what was dealt to jobs like BRD/DRG/MCH. All they can do is burst. Making it seem like its a guarenteed KO every time you burst will just lead ppl to believe you've never actually tried the job yourself. The job has red flags telling you a burst is coming that alone nulls this fallacy of an argument.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

Wouldn't surprise me if the majority of the people crying for BRD nerfs have never actually played the job for themselves.

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Speaking of this, for my own reference, exactly what buffs/moves am I looking for when shutting down a Brd burst? I've had several people request that I stun the burst, but I don't have a Brd myself, so I'm throwing darts in the dark when I go after a bard. The only one I really know about is Raging Strikes. The actual burst rotation is a mystery to me.

Quite frankly, looking for that tiny floating text in the heat of the fight is not a realistic request at the best of times, but I'd at least like to have a rough idea of what I'm looking out for, so that I'm not completely wasting a CC timer when I don't have to.

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Originally Posted by Februs

Speaking of this, for my own reference, exactly what buffs/moves am I looking for when shutting down a Brd burst? The actual burst rotation is a mystery to me.

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To begin with whoever the BRD is gonna burst needs to have both Wind bite and Venom Bite applied on him otherwise the Sidewinder in the burst is completely wasted. If you wanna know a burst is coming by viewing just his buffs look for Hawk's Eye not Raging Strikes. Raging Strikes has a 2 min recast so some BRDs will only have it up every other burst unless they specifically wait the extra 30 seconds for it to come up. No BRD however will EVER attempt to burst without Hawk's Eye and Barrage up. Both are 90 sec cooldown. B4B is also a gigantic red flag that a burst is coming since that buff needs to be taken off immediately after the burst else the BRD will get wrecked because of the 25% dmg taken (therefore you will only ever see it used in a burst). Barrage up also ALWAYS means Empyreal Arrow is coming. Since the BRD is on WM stance when they burst it means Emperyeal Arrow will have to be cast giving you a small window to LoS or stun. The rest of the burst will be insta abilities however.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

No BRD however will EVER attempt to burst without Hawk's Eye and Barrage up. Both are 90 sec cooldown. B4B is also a gigantic red flag that a burst is coming

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Awesome.

So, basically, if I see Hawk's Eye and Barrage, then it's time to start paying close attention to the Brd. Then, I pounce on them as soon as I see Emperyeal Arrow. Sounds good. I'm sure it will be a little tricky to pay attention to in-fight, but at least I know what to look for now. Thanks for the help.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

Cause theres so many good brds in the top 100 atm lol. The only decent one is Jermz and he hardly plays anymore. Go look at the win percentages of the career BRDs on our data center and then tell me how overpowered they are. I agree that all jobs should be well rounded like MNK but this is what was dealt to jobs like BRD/DRG/MCH. All they can do is burst. Making it seem like its a guarenteed KO every time you burst will just lead ppl to believe you've never actually tried the job yourself. The job has red flags telling you a burst is coming that alone nulls this fallacy of an argument.

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I personally don't believe all these career bards are a good representation of what the bard class can do. And again I don't say bards are overpowered, just the way they are implemented is very stupid and even though you can spot the red flags, it doesn't mean you can just automatically stop it. A good bard would wait for a situation in a game where they can get it off without getting messed up by stun etc. That is what I mean by good bards. Same applies to whether or not a melee can land a LB, everyone knew that melee LB was overpowered, but you could always you know, move behind a melee to cancel the LB or stun/knockback/etc. Doesn't change that it was stupid how defining melee LB was for melees and I can't appreciate how SE designed bards to be centered around burst that can potentially just outright kill someone within a second.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

GIF says it all. It's ridiculous giving this much potential to one class.

http://imgur.com/a/p0sm7

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1: going diurnal astro in a burst heavy game, either go noc or go white mage, you should know this by now

2: you were out of position in the center where you arnt stunned, had attune up and you already know that bards have an obvious buff cycle for burst, yet you arnt focus targeting him

3: you attempted to swiftcast and lightspeed mid burst, even though they have sizable animation locks and they were also on cooldown, thats almost a rookie mistake mate

maybe you'll man up and talk to me on skype one day, love from c'eve

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Originally Posted by xxczx

2: you were out of position in the center where you arnt stunned, had attune up and you already know that bards have an obvious buff cycle for burst, yet you arnt focus targeting him

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Wow. Dense. You realize the bard is hard targeted? Not noticing that is a rookie mistake, if anything.

You have my sincere apologies mate, i must have been so taken aback by the fact that, even though as you rightly proved that you had the bard targeted, not only did you go out of position in to the middle of the arena with no way to los a cookie cutter bard burst and just los dance like astrologians normally do, but your reaction to it was to attempt to animation lock yourself after the burst was well on its way instead of preempting it

but yeah, i guess it is a rookie mistake to think that someone such as yourself would openly admit to playing like that while also being able to see the bard buffs and casts

still waiting for you to take that knife out of my back from a few months back mate, its a good thing you dont own a transport company or you'd probably find another bus to throw me under

love c'eve

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Originally Posted by xxczx

still waiting for you to take that knife out of my back from a few months back mate, its a good thing you dont own a transport company or you'd probably find another bus to throw me under

love c'eve

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You mad that Aether doesn't have queues anymore?

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Originally Posted by Koltik

You mad that Aether doesn't have queues anymore?

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http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...dcgroup=Aether

Aether Dead Queues. :(

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Originally Posted by Nakanishi

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...dcgroup=Aether

Aether Dead Queues. :(

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Clearly dead rip

Wait, Tiax has switched datacenter? Isn't lag kinda important in pvp.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

Wait, Tiax has switched datacenter? Isn't lag kinda important in pvp.

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Well I didnt noticed a difference between 10ms (EU dc) and 100ms (NA) for me. Works fine as WAR/BLM and my winrate isnt bad the only time I maybe lag is when a city is to populated.

Wish people would make up their minds. We've gone from "BRDs are the worst class ever in PvP, below even BLM." to "BRDs are the most broken class in PvP, above even WAR."

But yeah, if you're getting bursted as an AST, you're doing something horribly wrong anyway. ASTs are actually among the most difficult classes to burst, because of those instant Noct shields. You could have disabled and shielded, you could have Attuned, there were so many things you COULD have done... But instead, you played Diurnal, and died.. And complained about OP BRDs.

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Originally Posted by Isala

Wish people would make up their minds. We've gone from "BRDs are the worst class ever in PvP, below even BLM." to "BRDs are the most broken class in PvP, above even WAR."

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Bards are weak outside of their burst windows. Everyone knows this. This is also part of the problem. How is it good to balance a class entirely around a 2+ minute burst window? If that burst gets shut down, bards are a joke. This means that in party queue bards are useless, and in solo queue they are still useless if they go against a good PLD. In all other cases, their burst is over the top and can do 13k+ damage in under a second.

It doesn't matter which way you spin it, they are designed very poorly right now.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

It doesn't matter which way you spin it, they are designed very poorly right now.

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It's not a Bard design problem, it's a PvP design problem. Heals are so powerful here, the only option is to blow absolutely everything at once to get a kill. When a healer can restore someone to full HP right after a failed burst, there's no point in even trying to wear someone down. It's not going to happen. And after the nerf to -heal% moves, healers have become even more powerful. There is no other option but to try to spike someone down. Whether it's here in Feast, or Shatter, or Seize... Healers can literally sleepheal through any non-burst damage.

Healing in The Feast is hard actually. That's why there aren't many good healers and everyone loves to blame them for not healing through the burst when they were stunlocked, silenced or slept. With 50% weaker heals it'd be unplayable there with team deaths every 30 seconds.

*cracks fingurs* ugh ur just bad at the gaem kek git gud scrub kek this is how u play the game kek yuo get kiled on 1 secund u little crybaby kek u shud just quit u noob kek ffxiv is a competitive gaem its not 4 casuls like you kek