Incentive at 60: Character Growth

There really needs to be a merit system or "something" to further character growth (not gear growth) when doing things on a 60 job. Or am i missing something? Im still fairly new. I know no one wants to hear FFXI, but its my only other reference point. People were happy to help (or atleast less resistant) because merit points made it not a complete waste of time. I know we get Eso's, Lore, etc. but those lose their value quickly with a new patch. We need something that permanently furthers your character/job when playing on a 60.

Do you mean stat boosts? I guess they could give us more attribute points to distribute.

Like further stat customization similar to the level up points only not for gaining levels?

None of Everquest's Alternate Advancement points! It just turns into a nightmare. People logging in to EQ are more intimidated by the 10-17 thousand AA points they have to get than they are by going from 1 to 105 (the current max level there).

I suppose a system that would have a variety of options to choose from. Such as Attribute points, or enhancing job specific skills (extend B4B duration, raise potency of Bio spells, etc). I'd just like to get a job to 60 and have something to do with it besides chase gear. The experience cost for a merit point should be fairly high as to not be able to cap them in a week. But not crazy high (NOT like companion experience). Maybe something like 2m xp for 1 merit. And some merits would cost several points while lesser ones would cost fewer. Perhaps raising attributes could be high while extending sprint duration by 5 seconds could be low. Merits would only be active while on a job at 60.

Poor OP, you just triggered the casuals.
Hope you have flameproof vest.

Attributes, skilltrees, talent points, merits.. whatever.. just let me spend my ingame time more efficiently than with farming FATEs and POD.

More job diversification is what I'd like to see in next expansion - and have them build on that. We've spent far too long making sure that everyone won't be left out of parties. Why not start giving them some flavor? Granted, the dev team is not one to introduce these revolutionary changes in between patches, if at all. We really only see faint glimmers of customization and other systems in side content like PvP or Deep Dungeon where they can't "confuse" most players.

Merit system for a main job as a reward for playing that job would be nice, but I wouldn't expect it. FFXIV supposedly allows freedom to play all classes, but with the tome system it usually means you can only have one best-geared class. So, given that, some sort of merit system might also be a decent way to give alt classes a bit more of an edge ( or even make different party compositions more appealing ).

Let's entertain the merits of a merit system for a moment:

Favorable example: It's Brayflox 4.0 - and we have a new tome-relic grind. You have a choice now, though. You can take Vivi the BLM, who is pretty well geared and has the usual BLM AoE *or* you can take Edge the ninja who, thanks to his ( likely gated ) merit points, has slightly augmented AoE. That, combined with his gear, now makes him as good as, if not better, than the average BLM. There's choice for you. Granted, people can say "but given the choice between a max-geared BLM and a max-geared NIN, the 'better' choice is still BLM". Perhaps so, and the BLM would have their own merit points too, perhaps. However, given the general trend of extremely casual progression in the game, and the players realizing that there is little incentive to rush or achieve anything by gearing up outside their own pacing, I believe the first scenario is one players would come across far more often.

This is just one example - and perhaps a flawed one - but it would be a step towards giving jobs more flavor alongside more job-specific traits / passive buffs / augmented abilities. Could even go really wild and throw in more / different cross-class skill options.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

Poor OP, you just triggered the casuals.

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Making light of triggering is bad. Absolutely unnecessary to be caustic. No one even shot down the OP really.

Anyways, I'd give any system a shot but I do really enjoy being able to pick up and play any class without having to worry about optimizing builds. Or sinking even more time into a main than I already do for tome gear.

You grow your character at lv cap by getting better gear. Which in the end does the same thing.

The game already has this. You can level your character to 60 and cap. but you can still progress because of the second leveling system - ilvl.

Increasing ilvl increases your attributes via the gear itself. So you progress your character overall first by leveling the job and second by leveling the gear. Each new patch advances things further.

Going back to ARR when the game landed you could get to level 50 and ilvl 90, by the end of the patch series itwas ilvl 130/135 if I remember correctly. Doesn't this really accomplish the thing you are after without adding to the skill bloat?

We need Guild tokens to make a come back and have the class guilds offer things at cap to spice up the game a bit.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

The game already has this. You can level your character to 60 and cap. but you can still progress because of the second leveling system - ilvl.

Increasing ilvl increases your attributes via the gear itself. So you progress your character overall first by leveling the job and second by leveling the gear. Each new patch advances things further.

Going back to ARR when the game landed you could get to level 50 and ilvl 90, by the end of the patch series itwas ilvl 130/135 if I remember correctly. Doesn't this really accomplish the thing you are after without adding to the skill bloat?

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The game has progression, no one is disputing this. But there is very much an end to progression for weeks / months at a time, like during catch up patches. There is also the OP's argument that there is no incentive to run most, if any content, after one is at max iLVL.

Example: I have my relic, I have all i240 gear ( tome-based ), and I don't want to raid. And no, I don't want to level every single class up to 60...and gear them....and then level my crafters and gear them...

What if, after I'm fully geared, I can still run any sort of content and still "progress" on my main class ( up to a point ). Why not have that? It wouldn't be skill bloat either. It'd simply be a small bit of text and an overlay over the exp bar / skill bar ( if we went about it that way ).

iLVL only goes so far.

Improve your fashion.

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Originally Posted by Mraj

iLVL only goes so far.

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As do all progression systems. The issue is that if you make it so that nobody who only plays "one" job ever ends progressing, playing multiple jobs at "endgame level" becomes impossible, undermining the entire purpose of the armory system. It's a bugger even right now with progression stops after like 11-13 weeks. And no, removing caps would not solve that issue, removing caps would only speed up the process.

The best you can do to alleviate this is a "global" progression system that's not tied to your job - kinda what Borderlands 2 does with its badass ranks. But that aside, I don't see many compatible options.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

As do all progression systems. The issue is that if you make it so that nobody who only plays "one" job ever ends progressing, playing multiple jobs at "endgame level" becomes impossible, undermining the entire purpose of the armory system. It's a bugger even right now with progression stops after like 11-13 weeks. And no, removing caps would not solve that issue, removing caps would only speed up the process.

The best you can do to alleviate this is a "global" progression system that's not tied to your job - kinda what Borderlands 2 does with its badass ranks. But that aside, I don't see many compatible options.

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Any sort of merits would be capped at certain points. Much like how desynthesis is capped / expanded upon. A broad-reaching "character" merit system wouldn't be awful, but isn't what I'd look for in a merit system. Going back to desynthesis, you can't level up one giant "desynthesis" skill.

Also:

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Originally Posted by Mraj

FFXIV supposedly allows freedom to play all classes, but with the tome system it usually means you can only have one best-geared class. So, given that, some sort of merit system might also be a decent way to give alt classes a bit more of an edge...

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Originally Posted by Mraj

The game has progression, no one is disputing this. But there is very much an end to progression for weeks / months at a time, like during catch up patches. There is also the OP's argument that there is no incentive to run most, if any content, after one is at max iLVL.

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In effect, you have beaten the current game. Well done. But what is it that you want after that? No developer can continue to provide fresh content at the pace that our hardcore players use it up. So, you can't progress your gear treadmill for a few weeks or a month. Challenge yourself to run things solo unsync'd or something. the game has options, but you capped your level and ilvl already. I just don't see how you think you can continue on progressing levels and gear 100% of the time.

I'm open to some alternate ways to be introduce, besides what we currently have for me the gear/weapons or rewards in this game in general is zzzzz fest.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

In effect, you have beaten the current game. Well done. But what is it that you want after that? No developer can continue to provide fresh content at the pace that our hardcore players use it up. So, you can't progress your gear treadmill for a few weeks or a month. Challenge yourself to run things solo unsync'd or something. the game has options, but you capped your level and ilvl already. I just don't see how you think you can continue on progressing levels and gear 100% of the time.

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It's an MMO. The point of an MMO is either progression or "things to do". Keeping players playing, even through catch-up patches, should be a goal of the game.
PotD Deep Dungeons is a stab at this.
Diadem was a largely panned attempt at this.
PvP is an attempt at this.
Housing is an attempt at this.
The Gold Sauc- okay, well I won't even joke about the effectiveness of the gold saucer on players unless you absolutely have to get the Fenrir mount.

In the same way, a merit system of sorts would also be doing this. And, if you bothered to read other posts, it would still come with limitations or some some sort of cap. There's always a cap.

There is no 100% nonstop progression.
But there should always be suggestions for filling in the gaps between content. This can take many forms, some easier to implement than others. Seeing as how we're approaching Fanfest and 4.0, now's the time to voice those suggestions.

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Originally Posted by Mraj

It's an MMO. The point of an MMO is either progression or "things to do". Keeping players playing, even through catch-up patches, should be a goal of the game.
PotD Deep Dungeons is a stab at this.
Diadem was a largely panned attempt at this.
PvP is an attempt at this.
Housing is an attempt at this.
The Gold Sauc- okay, well I won't even joke about the effectiveness of the gold saucer on players unless you absolutely have to get the Fenrir mount.

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I thought that the point of an MMORPG was toplay with old friends, make new ones and enjoy yourselves together in the world of the MORPG. I honestly feel that the progression systems in the game are nothing more than a means to an end. To me, the core concept of MMORPG play is that the Journey matters more than the destination. Proggression play is all about the destination, but MMORPGs are about the journey.

That does sound like FUN and INNOVATIVE content.

Maybe in another game. Please fate farm more.