SMN needs more utility in FL

After changes on magic resistance of ice in Fields of Glory, casters have been pretty much useless when it comes to killing the ice tomes. While casters can opt to DPS the enemy instead, healers in range can heal through the damage. This is where utility comes in. These is how the 2 match up against each other:

BLMs have: sleep 2x, Bind, physical and magic barriers, slow
SMNs have: Slow, Bind, Range reduction, Buff remover

While range reduction and buff remover is useful in The Feast, it's not quite really useful in FL since mostly everyone stay close together. Also BLM's bind is a ground AoE spell which can be precast to oncoming enemies (no need for Swiftcast), while SMN's bind requires the target to be in range and takes almost 3 seconds to cast (need Swiftcast or you'll be dead before you finish casting). Furthermore, BLM's sleep spell can really make a difference when it comes to ice DPS. BLMs can sleep enemy melees to prevent them from doing damage. SMNs have...nothing?

I am not really sure what to suggest to fix the disparity since it could affect The Feast and PvE. A few things that comes to my mind are the following:
-Lower or remove the cast time for Tri-bind or make it a ground target AoE
-Add an AoE stun to Titan-Egi's Landslide

Maybe other people have better suggestions but I just wanted to point out how SMN is lacking in the utility department.

It's lacking CC because it has mobility. BLM needs to be planted to throw out F4's and can easily be singled out then burst down, so it needs some kind of defense to actually get those casts off.

Also - if you're using Wither to actually remove buffs in FL then you're doing it wrong. It's too unpredictable to be used properly and is on a long CD. If a melee dps does end up close to you with low health or if you have no burst and need to secure a kill - just run up and hit them both. It's 340 potency together without points. The range reduction is good if you're being chased down by a player and need to escape. Swiftcast > Tribind not possible? Hit Misty Veil and sprint.

One will always be better than the other under different circumstances. Sleep around Ice DPS is just an advantage BLM has - it doesn't mean SMN needs it too.

Wither is 170/200 potency
edit: oh, you mean wither+aetheric, my bad

How about instead of 50% magic resist they give tomeliths 50% resist to all damage, but give a buff to anyone within 12y or whatever that negates it? Putting magic resist on them was a horrible idea

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by itsoni

It's lacking CC because it has mobility. BLM needs to be planted to throw out F4's and can easily be singled out then burst down, so it needs some kind of defense to actually get those casts off.

---

Mobility doesn't matter much unless you're in a small group fighting against 1-4 people (e.g. The Feast). In 72 man, anyone can be a target and the ice objectives are more of a priority now since the score was lowered to 1600 (The 1600-1800 post ice endgame doesn't exist anymore). I play both BLM and SMN in Fields of Glory and nobody bats an eye if I do my leylines+enochian PVE nuke on enemy melee when the ice is up (exception of other BLMs and healers doing sleep/stun).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enlial

Wither is 170/200 potency
edit: oh, you mean wither+aetheric, my bad

How about instead of 50% magic resist they give tomeliths 50% resist to all damage, but give a buff to anyone within 12y or whatever that negates it? Putting magic resist on them was a horrible idea

---

Also I forgot to mention that BLM has Phantom Dart that lowers magic resistance which is also a plus. I also agree that the magic resist was a terrible idea. It made BLM more favorable cos of the utility and ended up "nerfing" SMN.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeliriumTrigger

Mobility doesn't matter much unless you're in a small group fighting against 1-4 people (e.g. The Feast). In 72 man, anyone can be a target and the ice objectives are more of a priority now since the score was lowered to 1600 (The 1600-1800 post ice endgame doesn't exist anymore). I play both BLM and SMN in Fields of Glory and nobody bats an eye if I do my leylines+enochian PVE nuke on enemy melee when the ice is up (exception of other BLMs and healers doing sleep/stun).

---

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...cter/10149657/

You don't have a lv60 BLM as far as I can see, looks like you've just started to lv it doing Yokai quests? But if nobody bats an eye while a BLM is doing their PvE rotation then obviously under those circumstances they aren't seen as a threat, or, the opponents aren't too bright. Regardless, SMN has less CC because they have more mobility in their rotation. They did get nerfed a little too much for feast but I know a few SMN's that are still strong threats.

It just comes down to the circumstances at the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by itsoni

...

---

The Feast isn't the same as FL. My post is was meant to raise the issues of SMN in FL. I don't play competitive Feast but I know the differences between the 2 and how changes in one of them may have some drastic effects on the other.

And my main in PVP gear. I main BLM for Frontlines but I play healer, range, caster, tank as well if needed.
http://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acci...f61fc99048.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeliriumTrigger

The Feast isn't the same as FL. My post is was meant to raise the issues of SMN in FL. I don't play competitive Feast but I know the differences between the 2 and how changes in one of them may have some drastic effects on the other.

---

Nice to see you've played a good chunk of matches. I'm fully aware there's a difference between Feast and FL as I never said otherwise but the point is, you're saying SMN needs more CC to compete with BLM, when it just doesnt at all. Ive played probably around 600 FL matches where I'd finish as SMN with 20/25+ kills consistently back when SR was a thing that people queue'd for, even after the nerf. CC is not a thing SMN is big on, but the fact you can hit 4 oGCD's and take someone from 75% - 0 every 30s/60s is its strong point. You know for a fact BLM secures kills using procs most often than not because actually planting to shoot out F4's is much higher risk... and using procs gives you mobility. If someone's running away? You need to be able to chase them down. SMN can do that much easier than BLM can and because of that mobility SMN has, it's harder to catch one too.

Quote:

---

Mobility doesn't matter much unless you're in a small group fighting against 1-4 people

---

Saying mobilty doesnt matter unless small group fighting is just false. If you say otherwise then there's not much else I'll discuss with you. I thought after over a thousand matches you'd understand that much at the least. Planting yourself for that extra DPS and having the mobility to kite/chase with enough DPS to secure is important in both Feast and Frontlines.

Quote:

---

The Feast isn't the same as FL. I don't play competitive Feast but I know the differences between the 2 and how changes in one of them may have some drastic effects on the other.

---

Your OP literally suggested this: "Add an AoE stun to Titan-Egi's Landslide".

Wat even.

Infirmary is nastyt debuff, but so underrated it didn't make the list T.T

CC though might just have to wait until Enkindle II and see what plans SE has for the next tier of pet abilities (3.0 focusing on the SMN, next ability set will focus on the pet, is something they said around a year ago iirc).

I agree. SMN has almost nothing to defend themselves beside Tri-bind.

In the past, SMN has high burst and can do high damages so it's ok if they had to trade it with the low defensive abilities but now.... they're just bad at both offence and defense.

At this point they're pretty much nerfed to the ground. Nerfed AoE damage with the pain/death/dot nerf (not that aoe is super important in FL) and nerfed burst. Now they can't even dps crystals. Remember that SMN has almost no reactionary defensive CC other than swift-bind, no big instant self heals like second wind/recuperate (physick gives like no hp), and no way to "cancel/lock" an enemy move (trying to cancel with laggy pet stuns/knockbacks is not a thing). They were always a glass cannon, but they've kinda nerfed away the cannon part. 1v1 with a good melee where both sides have full buffs, a SMN is basically screwed unless you have room to retreat and have your pet get a few hits off. It wouldn't be as bad if enkindle would actually not take like 2gcd to go off if at all so that I can actually time it with part of the burst.

And people say they are mobile. They are pretty good at chasing, but any job with a ranged slow/bind or a closer is good at chasing now especially with the sprint TP change. Only BLM would be weaker here. In running, SMN are pretty bad. Again, no reactionary CC other than swift bind which if you can use it on them then they are also close enough to use a closer and stun, and no big reactionary self heals/shields.

I say either miasma heavy should come back, or misty veil should put a heavy. That would give at least one more escape option in a 1v1. Either that or give a fetter ward like skill to SMN, allowing for some sort of stun protection while escaping.

Really the biggest thing going for SMN is the pet, which in a 1v1 can even the field by getting a few free hits off on the opponent while the SMN is safe far away. It puts pressure on the opponent to make a move.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evangela

I agree. SMN has almost nothing to defend themselves beside Tri-bind.

---

Well ofc you do, all I ever see you do on these forums is ask for buffs/nerfs, and usually you're dead wrong on almost everything you beg for.

The recently dps nerf on ice for caster is bad. I can see the difference and it is a big nerf. Caster is not dps on the ice and they rather kill instead of helping. SE should have nerf dps on all ranges not caster only because brd/mch is now so OP. They can dps the ice plus killing other especially caster at the same time. And it is true, smn doesn't have much crowd control on the field especially after the nerf. I just feel like smn just gets REKT big time. As a long time smn, I actually have to go bard so I can dps on the ice and play foe for smn friend. I love smn but the nerf and no utilities of crowd control is not helping smn at all. This is like telling us to change our job.

SMN nerfs were too harsh. In rare cases when I still que as a SMN I don't even bother with manually casting dots unless Tri-disastered, nerfed Bio has 160 total potency over 12s when Ruin III has 200 potency in 2.5s. That's where traited Mana Draw is really useful, to spam more Ruin IIIs outside of DT. The whole burst including Enkindle now barely shaves off 70% HP when it was an almost guaranteed kill before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by auron_seifer

Well ofc you do, all I ever see you do on these forums is ask for buffs/nerfs, and usually you're dead wrong on almost everything you beg for.

---

More like you're wrong. Because SMNs in this thread are saying the same thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by itsoni

Nice to see you've played a good chunk of matches. I'm fully aware there's a difference between Feast and FL as I never said otherwise but the point is, you're saying SMN needs more CC to compete with BLM, when it just doesnt at all. Ive played probably around 600 FL matches where I'd finish as SMN with 20/25+ kills consistently back when SR was a thing that people queue'd for, even after the nerf. CC is not a thing SMN is big on, but the fact you can hit 4 oGCD's and take someone from 75% - 0 every 30s/60s is its strong point. You know for a fact BLM secures kills using procs most often than not because actually planting to shoot out F4's is much higher risk... and using procs gives you mobility. If someone's running away? You need to be able to chase them down. SMN can do that much easier than BLM can and because of that mobility SMN has, it's harder to catch one too.


Saying mobilty doesnt matter unless small group fighting is just false. If you say otherwise then there's not much else I'll discuss with you. I thought after over a thousand matches you'd understand that much at the least. Planting yourself for that extra DPS and having the mobility to kite/chase with enough DPS to secure is important in both Feast and Frontlines.



Your OP literally suggested this: "Add an AoE stun to Titan-Egi's Landslide".

Wat even.

---

You don't actually have anything to contribute to the discussion since you've never been to Fields of Glory. Instead you choose to go ad hominem on me and base your arguments from your experience from The Feast and Seal Rock. Those two don't have magic resistances.


Regarding the Landslide suggestion, I mentioned there maybe better suggestions to add more utility in Fields of Glory. I only thought of that idea since nobody really uses Titan-Egi.