MMO Canon?

Maybe I'm overthinking things a bit, but how much of your Warrior of Light's story is part of the continuity? For the record, I don't have much experience in MMOs, so having a character representing "me" is what brought on this question.

For example, commonly players in the story mode Titan fight fall off and die. A lot. So do any of these deaths "count" in the context of the story? As another minor example, say your character takes up crafting, and through some miscalculation you've botched the craft. Is this canon? What about any role-play activity your character engages in with other characters? Does this become part of your character's story?

I'm getting the feeling I'm being dense with some of these questions, but I guess I'm just trying to get a sense of what continuity is like in an MMO versus, say any of the other Final Fantasy titles I've played.

You're completely overthinking it. WOL has plot armor so they never actually die or lose. The entire story is written assuming the WOL wins the first time around. A lot of gameplay elements doesn't translate into the story.

Generaly, if it doesn't happen in an MSQ, it goes from "lightly canon" (Side story quests, class quests), to "not necessarily canon" (Ex primals) all the way to "definitely not canon" (Hildebrand).

Honestly, worrying about every single thing your character does in every single instance or craft is a recipe for madness. If one of your party members dies in Titan ex, it may be canon for your particular story but not for the overlying plot of FFXIV. Your character doesn't have any particular story except for the one you choose to give him/her. Example, I've gone from Midlander female to Moonkeeper Male, to Raen Male, back to Midlander Female and now Wildwood Male, yet the story treats me as if I've always been an elezen (until and unless we get Viera, then it'll treat me like I've always been a bunny man or woman depending on how I feel that month).

Long story short: if it's in a cutscene, it's canon. That and that alone. The only exceptions are the defeat cutscenes vs. Vishap and Bismarck, since those are nonstandard defeats. Of course, how serious the cutscene in question is determines if it's MSQ relevant. God knows half the stuff Hildibrand does can't work even by XIV's looser metaphysics...

If you want to start going this serious with it... what's a Roulette? How did I get approx. 21,000 Allagan Tomestones of Esoterics for my Guillotine of the Tyrant? Why can I go fight Hraesvelgr any time I want when I've already proved myself and the danger we wanted to ally with him to fight has passed? Why is there an infinite supply of metal ore buried in the ground? Why does making a simple sandwich require great culinarian skill? How does the Whisper-go (a kiddie ride turned mount) support my weight along with a sword that weights about half as much as me and still soar through the air?

For things like this it's best to not think about it too hard and just have fun with it.

The only detail that bothers me is Godbert being on the Syndicate but playing no role in ARR or HW when the group is involved.

Meh, the story does cast fellow adventurers as simply that, other adventurers. If you really want to dig, you can easily explain the fact we have other echo-blessed teammates to our connection with the Scions, as recruiting others with the Echo is Minfillia's wheelhouse.

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Originally Posted by Ninster

Maybe I'm overthinking things a bit...

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Yes, indeed you are, but I get the impression that it's more because of your relative inexperience with first-person RPGs in general, than with MMORPGs in particular.

Generally speaking, there is no limit to how you can incorporate game events into your character's story. You're limited, really, only by your imagination and, of course, the extent to which you're willing to bend official lore to accommodate your character's personal development.

So, to use your example of the story-mode Titan encounter, there's nothing actually to prevent you from imagining the rest of your party as random cannon fodder, either from the local Adventuers' Guild or Limsa Lominsa's Maelstrom. It's after all a do-or-die mission, and it's not unreasonable to imagine the WoL — who wasn't all that famous yet, at the time — bringing in whatever combat support he could get.

Actually, that's how I rationalise the presence of other party members in the first run of all my story-mode dungeons. I never really understood, for example, why so many players seem to have to difficulty reconciling the presence of more than "one" Warrior of Light in the story.

I mean, there are ample examples from previous Final Fantasy games, of entire parties of Warriors of Light, who jointly pursued a common quest, together. So, why can't that be the case for FFXIV? The cut-scenes in this game are designed to show either just your character (if you're watching the replays from the inn, for example), or your character along with his companions (if you're watching the scenes during the dungeon-run itself). For players with static parties comprising real-life friends, the idea of an entire party of "canonical" Warriors of Light wouldn't seem all that far-fetched, no?

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Originally Posted by Ninster

What about any role-play activity your character engages in with other characters? Does this become part of your character's story?

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This, again, is entirely up to you. In my case, some player-driven events or interactions have influenced the way I recorded my character's story (believe or not, I keep a journal of my character's progress; I used to think I was alone in this, but I've since discovered that there are other players who do the same thing) in previous MMORPGs. In FFXI, for example, I was much more heavily involved in player-guild activities, and those eventually became an "official" part of my character's story.

Granted, not all players approach role-playing the same way, and there are many players who keep unofficial role-play separate from official lore in this particular MMORPG. I just happen not to belong in that camp. I play RPGs and MMORPGs primarily for the story, and I find that such experiences become much more satisfyingly unique when you allow random, impromptu events to have actual impact on your characters' development.

Generally, if it happened in a CS I regard it as "canon". Gameplay is its own thing however, for example there are several fights in the game we do as groups but the NPCs say that the WoL did alone.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

The only detail that bothers me is Godbert being on the Syndicate but playing no role in ARR or HW when the group is involved.

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Technically, Godbert does appear in the MSQ during the the one full meeting of the Syndicate we have seen. I think depending on what order you did Hildebrand in vs the main MSQ though he can be oddly over clothed for him. If you did patch 2.2's MSQ before 2.2's Hildebrand quest (and the reveal that Godbert was Hildebrand's father and a syndicate member) then in that CS he is wearing a full robe and hood. If you did Hildebrand first then he may have normal character model. I still need to check this on my alt though.

He is likely the uncle on the syndicate that Serverian mentions in the ARR alc quests.

These rules apply to single-player games also. If you spent 5 hours in FF X running into a wall, it doesn't make that part of Tidus' story / canon. Gameplay really has no impact on the story. Your personality and past is written for you when it comes to cutscenes.

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Technically, Godbert does appear in the MSQ during the the one full meeting of the Syndicate we have seen. I think depending on what order you did Hildebrand in vs the main MSQ though he can be oddly over clothed for him. If you did patch 2.2's MSQ before 2.2's Hildebrand quest (and the reveal that Godbert was Hildebrand's father and a syndicate member) then in that CS he is wearing a full robe and hood. If you did Hildebrand first then he may have normal character model. I still need to check this on my alt though.

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I was not aware of this! I had always completed MSQ first, but this alleviates some of my annoyance. I remember a hooded Elezan sticking out like a sore thumb, perhaps he's replaced by Godbert?

That is a hooded Highlander so, yes that's Godbert. :) The changing character models is a rumor/speculation I heard (from the forum?) since there are pictures of him in his normal clothes at the meeting. My alt is currently on patch 2.1's story quests although I've been neglecting him while I've been trying to finish my Word of the Magnate so it will probably be another month until I can check myself. There have been several blink-and-you-will-miss-it references to the Hildebrand crew outside of their own quest series, particularly in holiday events, so it is clear that Hildebrand isn't just some strange alternate universe that the WoL occasional falls into, but I doubt they will ever feature much outside of side quests. The MSQ has a very different tone after all, and if Godbert started to be a player in Ul'dah's political drama then they'd probably have to tone down his eccentrics and where would be the fun in that?

Actually now that I think about it Godbert vs Teledji would be a lot of fun.

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It would be nice if we see another full meeting of the Syndicate if they would just use Godbert's normal model. It would be less confusing I think.

I kinda want to see Godbert and Rauban have a conversation.

They may not need to tone him down as he and Edmont are shown to have pleasant conversation.

He's just another eccentric artiste of Eorzea. :P

Are 2.x Ex Primals canon? it's just weird seeing Ysayle turned into Shiva again the second time around. And we have to fight Ramuh a second time even though we passed his judgement the first time.

I'm pretty sure that all of the Ex Primals that are summoned by Beast Tribes are supposed to be canon, at least the first time you fight them. The 2.x Ex Primals are part of a quest chain provided by Urianger, and Ravana and Bismarck are part of a questline provided by Unukalhai. I see nothing to indicate that these questlines should be considered noncanon.

Sephirot Ex, who has no beast tribe to resummon him, is explicitly mentioned to be a sophisticated Allagan simulation of what he was like at his original full power. Thordan (who also has no one to resummon him) is canonically NONcanon, being an exciting retelling of the Thordan battle rendered by the Wandering Minstrel (Ultima Weapon and Nidhogg, while not Primals, also have exciting retellings).