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Of all the games I've played this have to be the game with the lowest average skill level in regards to pvp (especially in frontline).
Just today, I've had 2 matches (shatter) where about half of the dps in my party deals very low damage. And healers don't use pvp skills.
I don't see the same ridiculous low skill level nearly as often in pve.
The obvious answer would be that the game itself discourages people to pvp, making it more of a thing the average players does once a day at most. PvP is too much "hidden".
Still, I don't feel like this is an adequate answer, considering most of the time (recently at least) about half of my teams in frontline have been a continuous dead weight.
In the end I guess I just needed to rant/vent some more. I'm not that good myself, but compared to what I'm talking about I'm a god. If the team is bad I also find it hard not to be influenced by it.
Why is skill level in pvp this low?
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07-29-2016, 01:55 AMGuesswhatWhy is skill level in pvp this low?
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07-29-2016, 02:18 AMNovaLevossida
So long as GC restrictions are in place, most just aren't going to care or even queue for it. Most don't have any aspirations for the Feast because Frontlines queues run them away.
As for PvE, the duty finder is terrible. There's entirely too many melees who never AoE. -
07-29-2016, 02:46 AMKenjiMuyo
The average pvp skill level in this game is low because you have no opportunity to practice pvp in this game until level 60, and even then you have to wade through long queues just to be faced with typically vastly more experienced opponents making learning as a new player difficult. This high barrier for entry and enjoyment creates a 2 tier system where you're either near the top or you're bottom of the barrel compared to the overall population of players.
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07-29-2016, 03:49 AMCynric
Its not just pvp. The players in this game have the lowest level of skill in any game Ive ever played period in general. I don't think there's any way to really fix it either
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07-29-2016, 07:43 AMFebrusThis right here is a big part of it. Very few people who play this game actually queue for PvP and therefore have almost no experience with how it's done or any of it's features (such as PvP skills). Those of us who do PvP suffer through extremely long queue times, so the amount of practice and experience we get is limited as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guesswhat
Front Lines, in particular, is the absolute worst place to look for skilled players, because the entire game mode is designed to be face-rolled. Party composition and individual skill mean next to nothing in a game mode that has 24-72 people in it. It's basically PvP for the lazy and casual. You don't have to work hard at anything, because your team will carry you. If your team fails to carry you, then it's their fault for sucking ... < insert nonsensical and circular reasoning here >etc. Most people who queue for FL don't take those matches seriously, and SE doesn't really give them a reason to. Rewards are practically the same between 1st place and 3rd place, so there's no incentive to actually try and win. Worse yet, I suspect that if there was incentives to win, most FL players would outright quit because they'd be afraid of real competition. It's similar to the difference between people who run Alexander and Alexander Savage. Not everyone wants to put their nose to the grindstone, and you can't expect maximum effort out of people who go out of their way to stay in the kiddy corner. -
07-29-2016, 07:51 AMZojhaLeague of Legends was much, much, muuuuuuuuch worse. You could easily get into gold (top 30%) without even having runes nor masteries. For platinum (top 10%), having masteries and half a runepage sufficed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynric
Player skill has crept up considerably over the last years of course. These days, you don't have to actively "try" to get into bronze. But gee...
And if everyone is that way...who actually carries?Quote:
Originally Posted by Februs
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07-29-2016, 08:01 AMGuesswhatWhat I mean by "hidden" I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by KenjiMuyo
okQuote:
Originally Posted by Februs
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Zojha
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07-29-2016, 11:20 PMFunkYeahDragons
Don't forget the massive numbers of people retiring or unsubbing. Half my friends list from earlier this year.
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07-30-2016, 12:45 AMBerilein
there is nowhere to practice except frontline which is nothing like feast. so if you go into feast looking for practice you get nothing but abuse. I cant see people sticking around for that the most of the people raging in caps or hurling abuse are just as bad as the one there abusing, except there worse cause there attitude is worse too
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07-30-2016, 01:49 AMChillaSeeing how SE time and time again continues to ignore all PVP related feedback it's no surprise that people are quitting. They continue to make it clear to us that PVP is at rock bottom of their priority list.Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkYeahDragons
Why should serious PVPers invest time in a game where the developer doesn't do the same?
It will only get worse towards the end of August when the new PVP-centric expansion for the most popular MMO is released. -
07-30-2016, 02:38 AMFunkYeahDragonsSucked massively. We had a handful of good PVPers on my home server, and none of them cared much for light party. Only one from season 1 appears to be active in season 2 at a glance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilla
One was a friend of mine and complained about this, but would still queue with newbie parties I set up to help. All of those newbies have quit, too.
I at least wish he'd gone to one of the big PVP servers so that I could queue against him. He was certainly good enough and was around top 10 at one point. Instead, he's playing WoW again according to Discord. He's not even the only one I know who went back to WoW... -
07-30-2016, 04:44 AMKaiyokoThere has never been players on Sargatanas, other then me, in the top 10 in either season which has been rather depressing. Not sure who you're referring to unless he was on another server.Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkYeahDragons
I've wanted to start light party teams on Sargatanas, but I honestly don't want teach someone from the ground up to PvP. I'd rather play someone show interest in doing it first and get in at minimum the top 100 ( this really isn't hard if you PvP enough ) rather than pull people together that have no interest in PvPing.
I'm starting to question continuing at this point as I don't see improvements in the quality of games. Right now matches have been at an all time low in comparison to the previous tiers skill level, almost every match is a complete stop on one side or another. I stopped playing PvP about a week ago when I was at rank 3 and have only dropped to rank 10. I would expect with a healthy PvP environment if you want to stay in the top 10 you need to play daily to stay in the top 10 day to day but that isn't really happening atm probably due to decline in player base. -
07-30-2016, 04:49 AMFunkYeahDragonsReferring to my old server, Cactuar, which is even worse--even when you're willing to teach new players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiyoko
Went and asked out of curiosity, by the way. Friend says his longest queue in WoW PVP has been 2 minutes and his fastest has been instapop. I can't even imagine what that must be like. It doesn't sound possible.
WoW is a 12-year-old game, in case anyone has forgotten. It's old enough to be hitting puberty and the graphics absolutely look like it has. -
07-30-2016, 04:54 AMKaiyoko
Was it Paper Plate? I haven't seen him around D:!
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07-30-2016, 05:10 AMFunkYeahDragonsNo, but I don't know if he's still playing, either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiyoko
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07-30-2016, 01:22 PMStormriderAnd what dps were you actually tracking pvp dps or dps on ice. I can score 50k more then nearest player in 24 and have 0 points vs player. I try to discourage killing other players. More points from ice a pain in the ass to burn down an ast and whm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guesswhat
Shatter is not feast kills will not win you a game in 24. People have to stop thinking in a team vs team mentality from other games. You will just get a game where the 3rd place team just make the kill happy team finish second. -
07-30-2016, 03:20 PMGuesswhatUmm... I look at both ice and vs players. Total damage. I'm talking like < 50000 worth of total damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormrider
Granted that kills are not that important in shatter, but don't underestimate kills. Every kill grants your team a 15 point advantage. Especially on big ice 24 man; if you can score some kills during/right before ice then your team will get a rather big advantage. Or, rather, that team will get a disadvantage. The hard part is to know when to go for it. And it's more often than not a gamble. -
07-31-2016, 12:46 AMStormriderNo, just no. This is half my frustration this week. Your logic is great in a two team system. Since very few people care about second they get great pleasure out of screwing the team that thought to kill them. You not only need to be awesome vs one team you need to be awesome vs two team. Since the game can't force someone to do objectives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guesswhat
To the 50k total not seeing the match and how they played and what they did, I still feel is subjective. If they just followed you around and didn't get any bursts on anything that sucks.
I have had way to many kill chasers this week my head is going to explode. I just want people to play objectives and win or draw. Just wanted to add this picture of flames getting all these kills while they ignored ice.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/yXcQyej.png?1[/IMG] -
07-31-2016, 11:57 AMGuesswhathmmm, I don't think you get what I'm saying...Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormrider
For total casual players I agree 100%. The idea I'm bringing forth is "knowing your place". If you assume your team can't get any kill/getting few kills at best, then it's obvious you should take the pve route. Half of the game is recognizing your team's resources. In my 24 shatter experience, there is usually 1 dominating team that get both the kills and the most pve damage (2nd most common is 1 noob team). I'm not saying it should be considered meta, but don't underestimate the power of a kill if you obviously have the resources.
Again, this kinda boils down to skill level. 1 rape team vs 2 noob teams = rape team wins. Well... Unless tunnelvision takes over. I'm not saying you should assume it, but if you notice it, exploit it.
And the team that gets a party member killed during ice (big ice obviously, small ice is not worth) gets a disadvantage. That is not equal to the "killing" team having the best outcome. That is blatantly true. But, again, only go for kills if you know you can. If all 3 teams are DPSing ice, the priorities changes.
The battlefield is not written in stone. If you see an obvious advantage you should seize it. Not shatter the idea lol. -
07-31-2016, 08:09 PMTsumes
Speaking from a new player perspective. I didn't even know this game HAD pvp until I saw this sub on the forums. The major issue with this game's content is that it's so hidden. Unless you're the type of player to do every single quest presented to you. You aren't going to encounter or realize 75% of the content you're passing up. Honestly. You shouldn't need to do a quest to gain access to something as arbitrary as pvp. Specially since you get absolutely nothing out of it. I like pvp, though I am not good by any means. I've only queued for it maybe half a dozen times and only found a match once. Needless to say I got bodied to the point where I'll probably never play it again. Simply isn't worth it. There's no reward for getting my ass handed to me. I can run savage content blindfolded if I feel like getting walked over lol.
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08-02-2016, 02:27 AMenthauptetThey should have just made PVP use separate skills. Having PVE and PVP skills is just dumb and confusing IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guesswhat