How About Exchanging Wolf Marks for Grade V Materia?

I'm very grateful that I'm able to actually cap Lore tomes (legitimately) through PvP each week, as this effectively frees me from the roulette obligation, but as an end result, I'm pretty weighted with Wolf Marks.

So I was thinking, since there's a materia vendor at the Wolves' Den, can we perhaps start exchanging Wolf Marks for useful materia like grade Vs? This would give us more incentive to battle for/save up Wolf Marks (assuming the materia won't be some ludicrous price), and maybe generate more interest in PvP.

While we're at it, how about breathing some new life into the Wolves' Den Pier? Not much has changed around there since its addition, and it's generally a ghost town.

As much as this would be a cool idea, adding more rewards that benefit PvE reasons is not the answer to increase PvP motivation. This will only make people start premade parties and farm for marks again and you will see more afkers because they only want the materia. The rewards that they should add from Wolf Marks should be stuff that are untradeable and non PvE related.

I always wondered if they could have PvP only emotes. Fist bump v2 i am looking at you.

And remove or increase the 20,000 marks limitation.

Honestly, I think they should just make PvP gear relevant in PvE... Change Morale to function similarly to Sanction on the old Grand Company sets, so you use Wolf Marks to buy the gear, and you also buy a Sanction scroll-type item which lets Morale boost the gears item level in PvE... Might need to adjust some of the item levels a bit, but something like that could work... Would minimize my PvE time somewhat, since rather than doing PvE to gear up alt Jobs, I'd just PvP... I'd also keep coming back to get more scrolls to actually make the gear useful, too...

There's not really all that much they can offer in terms of PvP rewards, not without creating the same imbalance that crippled Wolves' Den originally... They're pretty much limited to PvE rewards and/or vanity items; Skins, Emotes, Emblems, etc., and the way they handle rewards really limits what they can do with that... Add new emotes for Wolf Marks? OK, we'll finish farming them within a day... They'd probably be better off copying Blizzard some more, and giving us RNG loot boxes, rather than the vendors we currently have... People would probably bitch and moan about that though, but it would certainly keep Wolf Marks relevant beyond the couple of days it takes to farm out whatever individual rewards you want currently...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

They're pretty much limited to PvE rewards and/or vanity items; Skins, Emotes, Emblems, etc.,

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Also: Consumables (like dyes, ventures, aetheryte/aesthetician tickets etc).

Wolf Marks really...are kind of redundant as it is. You get Esoterics from PvP, so putting up anything you can get for esoterics is really just double dipping and would have terrible conversion rates to compensate. At the same time, it's not a weekly capped currency, so progression stuff is out as well. PvP progression creates its own issues. There's no reputation grind in PvP either. And to top it all off, it's not overly hard to cap.

In guild wars 2, I'd make blueprints for WvW siege weapons buyable with wolf marks. But that's not something one could just transfer since our frontlines are nothing alike.

I dunno, with Wolf Marks as it is...it's not easy putting up good rewards. Especially without setting bad incentives.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Also: Consumables (like dyes, ventures, aetheryte/aesthetician tickets etc).

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I would love ventures. I make so much gil off them but burn through them so fast since I send 8 retainers on quick explorations.

Though I wasn't too crazy about it originally, PvP gear required certain PvP ranks to be able to equip. Maybe a similar function could be implemented to deter anyone trying to farm out wolf marks without actually playing seriously?

The Sanctions-style item is a great idea, and overall, I'd just like to let it be known that the few of us in the player community who actively enjoy PvP want more. I'm not asking for PvPers to get any special treatment, but we deserve more than useless materia, expensive glamour gear with low ilvls and obsolete stats, and the odd minion/song. Ideally, I'd love for the Wolves' Den to be like our (the PvP community's) Idyllshire. Not to take away from the regular endgame hub, but it shouldn't be so empty and irrelevant either.

"Hey I'm just here for the materia. I don't care if we win"

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Though I wasn't too crazy about it originally, PvP gear required certain PvP ranks to be able to equip. Maybe a similar function could be implemented to deter anyone trying to farm out wolf marks without actually playing seriously?

The Sanctions-style item is a great idea, and overall, I'd just like to let it be known that the few of us in the player community who actively enjoy PvP want more. I'm not asking for PvPers to get any special treatment, but we deserve more than useless materia, expensive glamour gear with low ilvls and obsolete stats, and the odd minion/song. Ideally, I'd love for the Wolves' Den to be like our (the PvP community's) Idyllshire. Not to take away from the regular endgame hub, but it shouldn't be so empty and irrelevant either.

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To make Wolves' Den as PvP version of Idyllshire is actually quite simple. You simply allow players to duel with in that specific zone. Pretty sure a lot of PvPer will start stay in there.

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Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

"Hey I'm just here for the materia. I don't care if we win"

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Honestly, I say it's our responsibility to police ourselves there. Anyone who says that would get ye olde Vote Kick. And let them try to dispute it. Declaring that you're thre to simply farm something out is effectively harrassment, and I certainly wouldn't want that in my party.

As for the WDP (Wolves' Den Pier) becoming a hub, the ground work is there, with an aetheryte, summoning bell, repair NPC, and delivery moogle. We just don't have much reason to be there besides swinging by for the occasional mark purchase. We can't even view the leaderboards at the actual leaderboard display there! As for open PvP there, it has the infrastructure of a sanctuary, so that's a no go. BUT! The entrance to the arena (the original one) IS there. Maybe utilize it as a free PvP/practice area? Hell, they could go the Hall of the Novice route with it if they like. It would just be nice to see it serve more of a purpose.

SE said they were trying to take a more serious approach to PvP this time, and I really hope they make good on that.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

To make Wolves' Den as PvP version of Idyllshire is actually quite simple. You simply allow players to duel with in that specific zone. Pretty sure a lot of PvPer will start stay in there.

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Maybe on Gilgamesh. Servers like Diabolos the majority of the population don't give a damn about PVP sadly and therefore it would remain dead. Having a PVP specific zone will just make more people go to Gilgamesh lol. It's the only way I'd go myself.

That's anothe good point. Many players on Goblin treat PvP dismissively, like an allergy, or like the plague. As such, most don't even have it unlocked or would even know of the WDP.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

We just don't have much reason to be there besides swinging by for the occasional mark purchase.

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To be fair - the same holds true for Idyllshire. At least I don't go there for any reason other than tome purchases. I mostly hang out in the housing ward of my FC or Limsa due to the market board access.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

To be fair - the same holds true for Idyllshire.

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That depends on how invested the player is in end-game content. Aside from tomestone exchanges, you also have weekly quest turn-ins, scrip exchanges for crafting/gathering, extreme primal token exchanges, Raid token exchange for both savage and regular raids, and the gear upgrade vendor (which once upon a time used to be in a separate area).

Then there's the players themselves. Because everyone hangs out there for quick access to all those services, you also have the largest congregation of players who are doing end-game content. This means that if you need a party for something (current Extreme Primal, for example) Idyllshire is your best place to do shout outs. The same thing happened in Mor Dhona, back in the coil day. So, there's actually a lot of reasons to stick around in Idyllshire or Mor Dhona; whereas, there's almost no reason to go to WD Pier.

I had a stupid idea a while back of turning Wolves' Den Pier into a sort of PvP "Quest" hub... Have the option of picking up a quest that says, IDK, "Heal X amount in Shatter", or "Score X kills in Feast". Then you're automatically hanging out in Wolves' Den Pier when you queue for PvP for... And that's where it falls apart, because that's where I want to say extra rewards...

At best, Wolf Marks remain relevant for a week after a patch adds new stuff, I'd be more incline to say a couple of days though... They need to either give Wolf Marks some meaningful consumable (Ventures/etc. are nice and all, but I've never once been particularly thrilled to obtain them...) to retain interest, churn out new rewards more often (which lets face it, isn't ever happening), or make it harder to actually get anything with Wolf Marks...

Unless they can make it so I constantly want Wolf Marks, there isn't a lot they can do... Right now I don't mind having them, but I'm never going out of my way to get them (beyond any new items, that is), they're just there either for desynthesis or GC turn ins... I'll never log on and go "OK, I need X Wolf Marks to get Y", same deal with GC seals really... They're rewards I have to make up a purpose for...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I had a stupid idea a while back of turning Wolves' Den Pier into a sort of PvP "Quest" hub... Have the option of picking up a quest that says, IDK, "Heal X amount in Shatter", or "Score X kills in Feast". Then you're automatically hanging out in Wolves' Den Pier when you queue for PvP for... And that's where it falls apart, because that's where I want to say extra rewards...

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Extra rewards would be great, but I agree that it's not likely. SE just doesn't seem to have that kind of level commitment to PvP, despite their claims to the contrary, and, to be fair to them, it would be an awful lot of extra work to do each major patch cycle.

That said, an updated vendor system is something that they could easily do right now, and they should have done it a LONG damn time ago. Once they took Morale and Materia bonuses out PvP, they really should have expanded the PvP vendors to include items that we might actually want or use, even if those items were PvE related. Anything that keeps people queuing and playing PvP should have been considered. If that means offering ventures, scrips, crafting/gathering supplies, materia, or even relic items, then so be it. Anything it takes to keep people playing the content they want to play, rather than the content they feel like they have to play.

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Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

"Hey I'm just here for the materia. I don't care if we win"

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i dont' like very viable PvE rewards for the same reason, BUT,
thinking about the Ranks implemented with the Feast,
they should make Wolve's Den Sellers sell new items based on your ranking and(/or) give a little discount on all items for any rank you get.
So seasoned and worthy pvpers an finally get something useful in other content too from PvP,
and you should not experience Esofarmers.

Example:
- Bronze: Consumable items like potion and foods decent for Frontlines
- Silver: Ventures
- Gold: Relic Items (like Unidentifiable Shell, or something excangeable for Umbrite sands and for the new relics if they will require items)
- Plat: Grade IV Mat
- Diam: Grade V Mat

Diamond is so hard to get that I think having few V tier materia as Reward will not be a problem, even because you would have to pay a lot of WM for them :P
Is it still too dreamy or viable for you? xD

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Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

"Hey I'm just here for the materia. I don't care if we win"

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Well thats how we get people to start trying it. PVP is very intimidating to the average player. The lure has to be there. For me it started as a way to cap poes but I found it relaxed and fun so I stuck with it. Thats why its kind of important to let bads grow at a pace that works for them. First you try it, after a while you read what those pvp abilities do, then you find out you dont need too much acc, then you stop running into mobs, ect... Its a decently long growth process that doesnt really have any ingame help. So when they say a coping sentence so they can justify their unskilled performance dont be so quick to jump down their throats, you may be killing a little seedling.
I understand how frustrating it is to put up with some of the stuff that happens, but a lot of it comes from ignorance not apathy, and if you want ques to pop faster in the future I would suggest a bit of patience.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

In guild wars 2, I'd make blueprints.

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Blueprints makes me think of those aetherstones from coil needed to craft allagan replica gear. They could sell wolf aetherstones for wolf marks, used in crafting unique gearsets.

And I don't care if offering tradeable items encourages people to play who might not be interested in doing well at pvp. We desperately need more people playing.

I was in a 2 hour frontlines queue on the weekend and it was only 24 player match when it popped. Participation is so low on some data centers that I'm worried about people being unable to get into matches and earn the rewards in future.

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Originally Posted by Geologo

i dont' like very viable PvE rewards for the same reason, BUT,

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Locking vendors behind rank is one option. Another, very simple, thing they could do is re-scale the amount of Wolf Marks provided based on the outcome of the match. Right now, PvP payouts aren't far too equal. SE has taken an "everyone gets a ribbon" stance on handing out rewards, but there's really no reason for that to be the case in a competitive setting. It wouldn't be that hard for them to simply strike the Wolf Mark payout for losses, or at the very least reduce it substantially so that winning is the far more profitable. Farming would be discouraged, and people would have an incentive to actually try and win.

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Originally Posted by Februs

[...] but there's really no reason for that to be the case in a competitive setting.

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At least not if you want self-cannibalization of the playerbase caused by a constant low-end player bleed.

Grade V pvp materia :D

PvP materia itself could do with being adjusted... Isn't it -X% off the duration of Sleep/Stun/etc.? The returns on that are so pathetic in most cases, they'd function much better as X% chance to resist Sleep/Stun/etc., although even then, what does it matter? Materia doesn't function in PvP and I'd be more incline to remove itemization from PvP completely, than to sneak back in a minor piece of it... I don't want to essentially buy an advantage in PvP...

The rewards should be vanity IMO, maybe SE can embrace the death mocking and sell fireworks at PvP vendors... Emotes are another option for that, but like I said earlier, that'll take like a day to farm up then Wolf Marks are back to being redundant... I doubt I'd be particularly interested in fireworks either, so I'd just keep turning Wolf Marks into Gil, which at this point is another redundant currency for me...

I think I'm leaning more and more towards RNG loot boxes instead of the current vendors, but well... I enjoy Aquapolis... Still, it would let them put a whole host of "interesting" rewards behind Wolf Marks, without them being farmed up too quickly... Could fit with the lore somewhat too, as a pirate nation I imagine Limsa has plenty of "worthless" treasure chests kicking around that we can work for...