Job Tweak Suggestions Healer Roles

Hello there, this is a continuation of what my opinion of possible future tweaks to the Healer Jobs. Tell me what you think please.

White Mage:
Holy - Cast time reduced to 2.5 seconds.

Astrologian:
Essential Dignity - Cure Potency increased to 500.

With Essential Dignity, its potency increases the lower the target's HP is. At around 75% HP, it will have a potency of around 550.

The scale goes like:
100% HP = 400 Healing Potency
75% HP = about 550 Healing Potency
50% HP = about 700 Healing Potency
25% HP = about 850 Healing Potency
1% HP = about 1000 Healing Potency

I'm not sure if you're serious, but:

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Originally Posted by Super_Smiley

White Mage:
Holy - Cast time reduced to 2.5 seconds.

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WHM is already often the top DPS in dungeon and 24 person raid trash pulls and you think they should be boosted? :D

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Originally Posted by Super_Smiley

White Mage:
Holy - Cast time reduced to 2.5 seconds.

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Rather have the 240 potency back lol. The cast time it has right now is perfect to manage the stuns, though one thing i would work on would be on the animation time between the cast finishing and the actual stun occurring.


That aside what WHM needs is something done to the traits mainly the trash ones that replaced graniteskin and proshell.
Medica I trait needs a proc like how cure II procs overcure and cure I procs freecure so we can plan medica I use better, it could also be replaced for medica II rather than medica I as medica II plays a much larger role in raids than medica I such as "x% chance of hots proc x% mp reduction on medica II". Though due the low level of those traits this might not be possible without a whole change of the trait system.
Quick stoneskin is just trash, stoneskin without it is almost useless so bringing it back would be the best.
More skills like assize with double effects under cleric, once gain dots under cleric having a % of draining mp would make WHM less tight in terms of mp management while keeping it actively casting. After all WHM is the most offensive healer of all 3 and yet we're punished for dpsing by going oom way too fast.

Raise trait should be removed for all healers and replaced for something actually useful. E4E and virus should also have their traits removed just how proshell and stoneskin was equalized for all healers.

Dissipation should just reduce the fairy power for x duration rather than completely removing her, something like -80% heal power on use and a possible vulnerability debuff so bad management makes her die during dissipation use. After all you're draining her power to yourself.
Fairy nerf overall, yoshida already said this is something he's planning to just doesn't know when to do it.

AST i'd just completely rework it. Sects were a mistake, ripping off WHM base toolkit was another mistake. Since they're time themed maybe dots that trigger a cure when the target goes below x% hp or something like that.

I would also keep the fairy alive and reduce her heals or silence her while under Dissipation. And i would reduce the healing buff from 20 to 10% and add a 5/10% Damage Buff.

Keep the responses coming! :D I honestly don't really play Scholar much, so I don't know if that Job would need any tweaks or buffs or not. But I heard a lot of positive things about the Job though. As for Essential Dignity being 500. That just means more potency when the player you are about to heal is below 50 percent, which I would like personally. I only wanted Holy's cast time reduction to match Gravity's cast time was all. But that's about it.

Yeah let's nerf fairies by 33%... Again. e.e

Ast: Time dialation and celestial opposition need more synergy while in Nocturnal.


WHM: Remove medica trait and add it directly onto the skill. Add a flat accuracy boost trait to cleric stance.

SCH: It's working fine. If i wanted to give it something to make it better, although currently unnecessary:

Emergency Tactics: Current interaction with converting galvanize to heal or when used before a dot, it does the full damage and places the dot. Think thundercloud proc. Lol OP, but this is a dream thread anyways.

Dissipation: Current effect + decreased mp cost on spells, critical rate increase, or damage increase.

Silent Dusk: Changed from a silence to an 8 second magic vulnerability down with a one minute CD.

Again the SCH ones are just wimzy (Dissipation would most easily get this sort of buff, but it's ok where it is now. )

Oh hell yeah your silence dusk change. I'd love that !!

Silent Dusk is an ok silence, the problem on the skill its not by being a silence but its on its 40s cooldown (most silence rotations from bossos are around 30s) and the fact at how pet works, once embrace starts casting you can't Silent Dusk fast enough. Even though its animation is amazingly quick. Dissipation is ok as well, its really rarely used but the few moments you find a situation to use it, its a pretty decent skill. Of course, if they just made the buff removable it would let us use it a lot more. SCH is already too strong to recieve buffs even though a few skills seem not to be that good. The only tweaks SCH needs are on pvp in my humble opinion.

I would love a Silent Dusk change, but I feel it should have a dual mechanic. Either adding a Magical Stun as well, or some sort of Debuff. Right now Silent Dusk is the only Pet Skill that is really situational and feels really underutilized. When I found out they added Fey Caress, I LOVED IT, lol.

I would also change Dissipation to the Scholars version of Enkindle, with Eos producing a massive heal and Selene providing a powerful shield 15% maybe. Both skills would "knock" the fairy out for the 30 seconds. I don't know if these other change shoudl apply to both skills or just one of each, but maybe Eos's skill would give you Aetherflow stacks and Selene's the 20% increased healing, or both could give you Aetherflow stacks and a "10%" healing increase. We want the Skills to be viable not OP.

I think WHM needs a change in Stoneskin and Stoneskin 2. Stoneskin 2 should either be instant cast and not be able to be used in battle, or keep the cast time and let it be used in battle. Stoneskin, the trait is aweful, I can't think of a better trait for that specific slot, but maybe reduce the MP cost. WHM are the only ones who really use the skill mostly, a reduced cost would be nice.

I have nothing for AST at this time.

Any improvment to the sch would make him way too strong when it is already at the top

And dead ni on changing stoneskin2 this skill is secondary
Only that to gain time before pull (because eit has twice the time of the single one but cast at least 4 to 8 stoneskin)
And yes you have to spend 5sec casting because it's better than 10 or 20...)
You won't die for 5sec cast especially outside battle

As cool as it sounds, I disagree with changing Selene's silent dusk to a dps boosting ability. Since SCH is already in a good spot as far as being a wanted healer, I think an ability like that should be thrown onto the next healer they add to the game.

I do wish the silence would activate more reliably during her embraces though. Maybe treat it like an off global cooldown attack so she can cast it while embracing? (not sure if its already coded that way.)

Anything i said about changing scholar was purely fantasy. I'd want radical changes like this on all healers next expansion.

Well, sch really needs less heals and more dps. They aren't 100% healers.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Anything i said about changing scholar was purely fantasy. I'd want radical changes like this on all healers next expansion.

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Yet, your propositions are really great and would fit the sch amazingly. I really hope they'll orient us dps this way. ( and having less heals ofc)

I really wanted to include some ideas for the Scholar Job, but that is one of the Jobs I rarely use. But I am glad to see a lot of your ideas on what could change or be improved on it :D Keep showing me more of your ideas and thoughts on what you would like see before patch 4.0 :D

I will have to disagree about the less heal more dps point
Even if I love how much a sch is able to throw

The sch must be able to provide as much healing as the other
Just in case hé end up behing alone and keep a group alive
Right now there is many option but still aoe wise it can be hard to maintain a high healing output

I remember at the beginning of niddhogg NM whe' no one knew the fight well
I end up solo healing the last part and all akh morn because emy whm couldn't stay alive (dropping to less than 8000hp with the -30% penalty...)

Hopefuly it was nm and most of my succor were sufficient
But i end up mana dry because of raise and spam healing
Even with Eos support

Honestly i would like a basic aoe heal similar to helios/medica
And keep succor to be aspected helios or medica II
Indomp and emergency are great but in a real emergency case their CD are awful XD

@Nekotee

Literally the only weakness that SCH has is its lack of 'sustainable' AoE healing. And even this is only noticable if you're not using Eos and you have no stacks or Dissipation to use. In any situation you'd probably be more than able to Ress your co-healer before it even becomes an issue, so to assume that we need buffs in that area is wrong imo. And in end game raiding, it may lead to a wipe but no one healer job should be equipped to deal with everything. That is where we go back to homogenization and generally making the role much more boring.

I personally do not believe SCH is OP, but it is definitely in the best place when compared to the other two atm because of the way the raids are constructed. So to wish for any buffs in either deparment would just create an even bigger imbalance.

@nekotee
don't forget you can also use emergency tactics succor to get a pretty decent aoe heal, and that has a short cd (30s).
I pretty much only use it when everyone has galvanize from succor, but still has too low hp (same as I'd use indom for) or I'll use it with adlo (and usually lustrate too) to save a drk from his walking dead "invincibility".

I know Sch is considered fine by a lot of people, but them rank traits, Int up, and the Pet Action on Crit sees very little use, I know their base form is a dps, but it doesn't make the int any more valued by me, at least the 12 points is pretty small. Pet actions though, I feel like it's the second coming of christ when I see that spell speed boost.

Again not to say Sch is weak, just hope we get to like, replace traits in the future or something, SUPER TRAITS

Oh to be clear i wasn't asking for any kind of buff for the scholar since it is fine as it is now

@Tashim yeah but in case of massive repeated aoe indomp and emergency both on CD you're stuck with nothing but spam succor XD
(Not often situation hopefuly)

Its true, that sch doesn't have the ability to burn through mp like a whm spamming cure3, but even for things like ahk morn, by selectively choosing when to use virus/sacred soil/fey covenant/illumination/mantra/whispering dawn/emergency tactics succor/adlo+deployment/indom

We've got quite a few ways to deal with it, they're just not the brute-force methods that a whm has.
For something like Ahk Morn, sch actually do fairly well against, because many little hits are easier to mitigate when your "spammable" heal (succor) isn't as effective to use again unless you take some damage. Once the galvanize from succor is down, its best to reapply it to get max benefit from it again. You only need these other tools, to help fill in the gaps between succors. In dealing with ahk morns, sometimes I've even found it worthwhile to land succor as they start, and swift-succor again, to immediately soak the 2nd (or 3rd, depending on my latency) hit quickly, faster than the cast time would normally allow.

Now this isn't that effective with a single or double large hit. Those are harder for sch to deal with (like the double bio-arithemeticks on swindler A6S), because you can't wait for the galvanize to be used, you need raw hitpoints for the next hit to not be fatal. This limits options, but we still have some that are decent (Whispering Dawn/emergency tactics+succor/indom), but they certainly can't be sustained for long periods of time.

I think sch has the most diverse toolkit of the healers, which is part of its appeal. However, using all of it effectively is as much art as it is science.

The only healer I think still needs tweaks is AST... >w>()

My Tweaking List:
- Nocturnal Sect's place as the Off-Healer is still inferior to SCH and even Diurnal Sect. Maybe give it a +5% potency boost to offensive spells too to compete with Diurnal's +5% Attack Speed and to help boost it to SCH's amount of DoT?
- For Time Dilation and Celestial Opposition to have better synergy with Nocturnal Sect. Maybe increase/restore Noct's shields by a certain amount?
- A way to spread Combust and Combust II through out a group of enemies

Scholar: Replace dissipation with Friend's Gift-Give 1000 mp(DOM) or 300tp( DOW) to a party member. Or Twin Sisters- Have both fairies for 1 minute. Or Sacred soil 2 25-30% damage reduction

I like Noct Sect when I play as a healer, but it just isn't too worth it compared to Diurnal; especially since you can stack regens (benefic and helios) in Diurnal.Maybe make it so that Noct shields can at least apply a very low potency regen-like effect to somewhat mimic fairy. In the end, AST seems more like an alternative to WHM.

As a WHM, I'd prefer a trait of reduced stoneskin mp cost rather than the .5s reduction to cast it. Heck, I'd be happy if Stoneskin 2 can be used in battle, even it means the potency is reduced somewhat.

While I enjoy the current AST playstyle (despite its "quirks," aka-deficiencies), it would be nice to have more differentiation between AST, WHM, and SCH. One idea I had would be to change Aspected Benefic/Helios to cast the frontloaded heal, then apply a buff that would proc a heal after taking damage, regardless of sect (as if Fate or the cosmos are intervening on behalf of the player). I remember a similar effect with WoW's Prayer of Mending - I thought that was a really cool concept. The other basic Diurnal/Nocturnal benefits (5% heal/attack speed boost, lowered threat) would still apply, so that the flavor of the class would remain intact.

As for cards, what if the AST could give out the cards, which could then be activated by the player when desired, or maybe even passed to another player?

I probably sound crazy, but ideas get the conversation moving, right? :)

WHM here - I think Holy is fine the way it is. Just my opinion who frequently DPSes as a WHM from time to time.

Personally, I would enjoy it if Synastry also affected buffs, i.e. the party member affected with Synastry also receives any card buff cast on another member or yourself. Kinda like the AST version of Deployment Tactics. Would be one way to develop the card system and allow us to use Synastry in a more varied fashion.

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Originally Posted by myahele

I like Noct Sect when I play as a healer, but it just isn't too worth it compared to Diurnal; especially since you can stack regens (benefic and helios) in Diurnal.Maybe make it so that Noct shields can at least apply a very low potency regen-like effect to somewhat mimic fairy. In the end, AST seems more like an alternative to WHM.

As a WHM, I'd prefer a trait of reduced stoneskin mp cost rather than the .5s reduction to cast it. Heck, I'd be happy if Stoneskin 2 can be used in battle, even it means the potency is reduced somewhat.

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The biggest downfall is while you can stack your own buff
You cannot stack with an other ast, only with a whm medica 2/regen

Because double diurnal only overwrite each other instead of stacking like the whm

It bother me a looooot
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Otherwise noct ast is more than strong
You solo heal A5S as noct since you got powerful aoe heal and insta-shield

I think Cleric Stance as a mechanic is a poor idea and should be removed. If we MUST keep this crappy healer DPS meta they should at least make it less punitive on those who are attempting it as new players. I know a few newbie healers in my FC who only put up non-CS dots because they're afraid everything will go to pot as soon as they push that button. Take that unnecessary fear away and just have healer spells scale off MND or something. It's a slight nerf from losing CS's 10% bonus, but I can't say that'll make or break much.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

I think Cleric Stance as a mechanic is a poor idea and should be removed. If we MUST keep this crappy healer DPS meta they should at least make it less punitive on those who are attempting it as new players. I know a few newbie healers in my FC who only put up non-CS dots because they're afraid everything will go to pot as soon as they push that button. Take that unnecessary fear away and just have healer spells scale off MND or something. It's a slight nerf from losing CS's 10% bonus, but I can't say that'll make or break much.

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While Cleric Stance is a very unintuitive mechanic with all the stats swap, heal penalty and damage up shenanigans, it's also a very high-risk/high-reward concept that separate good players from the average Joe of FF XIV.

The only tweak I can think of at the moment would apply to all classes: it would be nice to have two targets - one friendly and one enemy. Kinda like setting a default friendly and default enemy, so when you click a friendly spell, it casts on your friendly target, etc.

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Originally Posted by Nanahem

While Cleric Stance is a very unintuitive mechanic with all the stats swap, heal penalty and damage up shenanigans, it's also a very high-risk/high-reward concept that separate good players from the average Joe of FF XIV.

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Intentionally segregating players of different skill levels isn't exactly a good thing. It's extremely unintuitive and feels like they made it that way to intentionally create a divide between players. Everyone knows what happens when players create an "optimal" way of doing things. They start looking down on new players or players who lack skill. Basically it feels like it's more difficult then necessary just for the sake of being difficult. It doesn't add anything(from what I've seen thus far) to the game in terms of advanced mechanics that would be more useful then simply having 1 blanket stat.

If having 2 stats allowed healers who heal more then they would if it was only 1 stat, then it'd be okie dokie. But that's not the case. It limits players while adding nothing in return. If they didn't want healers to DPS, sure then it'd be fine. But they do. So what's the point in having 2 stats for literally the same type of spells?

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Originally Posted by MaikoRaines

WHM here - I think Holy is fine the way it is. Just my opinion who frequently DPSes as a WHM from time to time.

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Holy is never fine. I for one would like a 18s stun, for example.

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Originally Posted by Tsumes

Intentionally segregating players of different skill levels isn't exactly a good thing. It's extremely unintuitive and feels like they made it that way to intentionally create a divide between players. Everyone knows what happens when players create an "optimal" way of doing things. They start looking down on new players or players who lack skill. Basically it feels like it's more difficult then necessary just for the sake of being difficult. It doesn't add anything(from what I've seen thus far) to the game in terms of advanced mechanics that would be more useful then simply having 1 blanket stat.

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The game already segregate players with all the Normal/Hard/Extreme/Savage content so people of all skills can enjoy the game. Also if you don't like DPSing as a healer you can always run things in solo healing, which is quite challenging.

Cleric Stance is probably one of the best things this game has brought to the table. It balances Healer DPS, with the ability to keep the party alive. It gives healers a chance to be useful towards DPS contributions, while not completely handing them both DPS and Group Survivability. If they every homogenized INT and Mind for healers, I would be pretty saddened. Cleric Stance is still a 10% DPS boost on top, so most good healers would still use it either way.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Cleric Stance is probably one of the best things this game has brought to the table. It balances Healer DPS, with the ability to keep the party alive. It gives healers a chance to be useful towards DPS contributions, while not completely handing them both DPS and Group Survivability. If they every homogenized INT and Mind for healers, I would be pretty saddened. Cleric Stance is still a 10% DPS boost on top, so most good healers would still use it either way.

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Maybe if they remove the delay to leave Cleric Stance people wouldn't complain?

Stop wanting the fairy to be nerfed.

Scholar is almost perfect as it is.
It's part of his gameplay and provide a better way to heal the entire party because, i'd like you to remember that, scholar is really strong at shielding but have only 2 CD to aoe heal every 30 secondes. This is his weak point and the fairy is here to help him.

But I don't want scholar to be like others healers in the expansiom with a aoe heal he could spam.
Otherwise... remember Scholar is a healer. I like the way he can give a great extra-dps, but seriously, if you want to dps more, play summoner.

The only nerf that sch really needs is the ability to have the fairy heal with no consequences while the sch is dpsing. To fix that:
Cleric's Stance also affects the summoned fairy.

Fixing Ast honestly takes a bit more work. I'd suggest something that was done at the top:
Noct Sect: Let all shielding effects also add a HOT effect for 20% of the heal.
Dinural Sect: Let all HOT effects also add a shielding effect for 20% of the heal.

It doesn't fix some of Ast's other issues (Time Dilation still being poopy with Noct sect) but it gives Noct an HOT effect that it desperately needs and gives Dinural Asts a bit of breathing room, especially during large portions of AOE damage.

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Originally Posted by Nanahem

While Cleric Stance is a very unintuitive mechanic with all the stats swap, heal penalty and damage up shenanigans, it's also a very high-risk/high-reward concept that separate good players from the average Joe of FF XIV.

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In most content, it is not what you are describing, it is an unnecessary button click that more often than not bugs out/doesn't register when you push it. If I misclick Cleric Stance in 90% of this game's content, we are still nowhere close to wiping - I am just needlessly annoyed.

To extrapolate further, the recast timer on CS is a paltry 5 seconds - about 2.5 globals given our current GCDs on abilities. Unless you are using it while the group is already at low HP and struggling, there are precious few things outside of one-shots that will bring a group from full HP to 0 in the span of 2.5 globals. The one content where that might happen, Savage raiding, is full of encounters so scripted that a program can bleep at you what is going to happen next, giving you tons of windows to toggle the button without issue, and if something DOES go awry while you have it up odds are it's because someone bungled a mechanic and it's probably going to lead to a wipe anyway.

I'm not saying I dislike it because I find it difficult to use, I'm saying I dislike it because it doesn't add anything to the game whatsoever at this juncture. I feel like it was ORIGINALLY intended to be a risk/reward ability for healers while out in the open world doing content, but due to this game's glacial GCD and ridiculously scripted encounter designs it doesn't add any element of depth or skill to the job; it just adds another button to my already-crowded hotbar. Removing it won't make healers these OP gods that will smash through all content solo on day 1 with ease...at best you'll be able to get 1 extra heal off that you wouldn't have before. Currently, you're able to finish out the timer just from applying your three healer dots, and pretty much EVERYONE has the space to do that in all this game's content...might as well just remove the unnecessary button press in-between.

To summarize, HERE is how Cleric Stance would actually be high-risk/high-reward:

-it cancels all HoTs on everyone in your party
-it Dissipates the fairy
-it lasts for 10 seconds and is also on the GCD (meaning you can't just click it off and Lustrate/Tetra/Dignity before activating it again within the same GCD)
-maybe remove Stoneskin and Adlo too, though that's probably overkill haha

As long as you can basically stack HoTs and have the fairy unaffected by it, there is not any real "risk" at all to Cleric Stance.