For those who give up on Duties too quickly...

For those who give up on Duties too quickly, remember that the challenge to Duty Finder isn't about the Boss itself anymore- of course not, anyone can look up a guide on how the fight works.

The challenge to Duty Finder is to understand that each player comes from different servers, with different play time and skills- even different entire languages! The challenge and reward comes from finding a way to work together with these strangers to complete the task, utilising what functions Final Fantasy 14 provides us with: Marking, Waypoints, Word Translations- even down to the emotes.

If you're a new player- don't be shy, speak up if you're having difficulty and give it your all to work with these players! Don't feel defeated if you fall of the edge with Titan, or walk into Garuda's tornado.
Long-time pro Guild-master of an elite guild? Go easy on other players. Seriously. You was once in their shoes. You may only be grinding to get a Mount or Tickets for rare loot, but people can use your knowledge to find new ways to complete these challenges they're meeting for the first time.

Acronyms may not always help due to language barriers or new comers to MMOs. Go back to basics and talk about the challenge at hand, rather than rushing to attack the Boss the moment the Trial starts. Use the Tactics list in the Translation set to help each other out and you'll find a way through even the hardest combinations.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KMp9yoyz5k...2-23-25-10.png

Most of all, have fun! No one likes to wait in a grinding queue for 1+ hour- we all know that- it get's frustrating! But try not to bring that mentality into the game as it may effect how you talk to each other. No one really wants to abandon the fight (or some may ask to be kicked for a better party- in which you may just have to let them go).
Greet each other, talk for a sec and understand everyone's position, check everyone's tactics and how they plan to play- and then Ready Check and go for gold!
Enjoy the challenge and remember you're all here together in this fight, and you all want to enjoy the game- so enjoy it!

Yeah, veterans that bail on trials because there are new people is just plain rude, but so are new people that go into these situations with no idea what they are doing. There are a ton of guides out there, and if you are going to go into endgame content or a trail marked as Extreme, then you should go in with some concept of what's going to happen instead of "I like to go in blind for fun, now explain every step to me before we start".

That would be appreciated. I'm usually very talkative when I enter in, and watch guide from fights if I don't go in with a FC friend explaining for me but still, guides aren't a very good source specially if you play as a healer or tank. :c If I don't want to spoil the history I usually ask people what to do.
Today I got Ravana for trial roulette and there was some new members, and they didn't killed the Moon Gana fast enough. We wiped, and then someone just left. After that a new member enters in and we clear it smoothly. I mean, there's no need to simply leave the party for a mistake that, well, happens, specially if you're new.

The other day I got Titan Hard and 4 dps's standed in the AoE and fell the plataform. Since we didn't had dps we decided to wipe and try again. I was alive the whole fight, but in the second row I got latency issues and fell. The dps's told me that I was a "bad healer", the scholar said of how I was "an ass ast". The tank cried about how he was carrying everyone. I ended up really nervous and closed my game. I decided to spam Titan HM queues till I feel comfy with the fight even with latency because I really felt like it was entirely my fault. The other runs went good and I even got in a run that the party already wiped and after I entered in we still wiped 3 more times (although I stayed alive as much as I could), but everyone was joking and talking about how, well, we killed Titan's children and how we could do it if we believed hard enough, in the end when we cleared someone even said "we should do EX now". :)

I think that having at least some patience can make a really bad run full of terrible players better. I'm not even talking about EX fights because honestly, I still don't have the courage to do them. I watch guide after guide but it's a lot of information and I'm afraid of going in.

I know what you mean. Many veteran players have been so rude that someone new to the instance keep their mouth shut and don't get the need they help. If they do something wrong, they get yelled at or kicked from the instance. like when I was doing Titan HM (roulette) and a sproutling fell off from the first landslide and someone opted to boot her out. Majority of them clicked yes, so when she was kicked out, my boyfriend (tank) and myself (healer) just left the instance. We might be wrong for doing so but we both can't stnd people who do that to new players.

Also I've ran Titan EX and Titan HM so many times (and pony farmed EX), and I could say after running Titan Ex at least 80 times, I sometimes fall out of HM version.

Nice post. +1.

Reminds me of a Weeping City run I had.
We wiped at the 2nd boss once and then at Ozma twice.
Someone initiated a vote abandon.
It failed.
They tried again immediately. (Not even 3 seconds had passed.)
Failed again.
This repeated FIVE times before we tried Ozma the 3rd time.
Every time failed.

The other two alliances had been having trouble and kept wiping fast, so our group was left alone to fight. So I think someone in the other alliances must have given advice to the members who continued dying, because the 3rd try, no one died at all.
The fight went super smooth.

There was a short break before the final boss. I think the other alliances were explaining mechanics to the members.
A couple people did die, but we didn't wipe.

It goes to show if you take time to explain a fight, work together, and don't give up, you can accomplish the goal.

I really wonder what some veteran players who use DF expect when they go into these extreme instances. I've been trying to clear sephy ex and my fc mates don't always have the time to form clear parties, so I've been using DF a lot. And it sickens me when after one or two wipes, people just opt to abandon. One of these times infuriated me because we wiped once on the add phase, then on the second go around we got past the add phase but wiped shortly after. Why would you abandon after 2 tries when you can see that the party is improving? It's really sad.

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Originally Posted by whiteblade89

I really wonder what some veteran players who use DF expect when they go into these extreme instances. I've been trying to clear sephy ex and my fc mates don't always have the time to form clear parties, so I've been using DF a lot. And it sickens me when after one or two wipes, people just opt to abandon. One of these times infuriated me because we wiped once on the add phase, then on the second go around we got past the add phase but wiped shortly after. Why would you abandon after 2 tries when you can see that the party is improving? It's really sad.

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Ain't nobody got time for that. Seriously, everyone is all about doing things fast as possible anything that causes them to slow down is met with a rage quit.

The problem is, this is a MMORPG in 2016, an era where people want things super quick and faster and where nobody literally gives a "thing" to new players. I'm a victim as well since that I can't clear anything (I haven't done any EX primals because of it) but I grew used to it, but I doubt that it's something that will be fixed with time: it's a mentality that won't go away for at least some decades. If anything SE should attempt to cater to those people as well so that people who want to do SR and quick runs can do it with their own teams, and leave the "normals" with normal runs....but considering they love their gates in their dungeons, this won't ever happen and will only frustrate both of the worlds.

For as much as it's a problem and a nuisance, I'm very sorry to say "Welcome to MMORPGs of the 2010s".

...I highly recommend grouping with friends or FCs if you really hope to do this properly :/

I only leave runs if people refuse to learn...like for example..Keeper of the lake last boss, I expected to hit the side dragons when he goes immune, also explained about the sheild add, even marked it with a one..did they hit it? Nope, kept hitting midgard despite me telling them again to hit the adds instead of him...and then had to explain what immunity meant, (half of them were level 60) I explained it again, we died again for the same reasons of them not doing the stuff, after dying they asked "what are we doing wrong?" As they clearly had no read anything I said and I had to leave for work so I ended up having to ditch the run.

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Originally Posted by Gokuhan

...but so are new people that go into these situations with no idea what they are doing. There are a ton of guides out there, and if you are going to go into endgame content or a trail marked as Extreme, then you should go in with some concept of what's going to happen instead of "I like to go in blind for fun, now explain every step to me before we start".

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This is very true, and can become tedious after your 10th run of the same event that day- but there are a few things to think about.

First, when an event was first released (or when 2.0 was first going online), there was obviously no guide except the snippet provided with the Next Patch features. Final Fantasy 14 doesn't actually force players to check out content before running it, otherwise it would be like how SMITE plays an embedded video on how this game mode works before running it, so it ultimately does come down to the player's own initiative. That being said, if possible, do check out some tips on the fight to help each other out and play your part if you can!

There are some players who really enjoy the mystery of learning this new battle built up from the story's tension- and since the game literally provides players with 60+ minutes for these ~15 minute fights, the whole team can learn from their mistake that appeared in each Boss Phase, talk it out to realise how to tackle the new problem posed to them, then head in again with more confidence and strategy.
Long-time Players tackling brand new content before guides appear casually do this (that's how they write the guides!), and players who appear later to content who play like this shouldn't be insulted as the "noob healer", "worthless tank", or even opted to kick otherwise.

http://www.siliconera.com/wordpress/.../m14_thumb.png

And alternatively, it can be as simple as Neil Fleming's VAK/VARK model / different learning styles. Some people are visual learners who can take in tips from a Video easily, but others (say, someone with Dyslexia) may be Kinesthetic Hands-on learners that need to try the exercise itself to understand it. It's no different from learning things in school, and no one has the right to insult the way their brain functions.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...on_Pyramid.JPG


It all comes down to understanding each other and communication. Most things do.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

The problem is, this is a MMORPG in 2016, an era where people want things super quick and faster and where nobody literally gives a "thing" to new players. I'm a victim as well since that I can't clear anything (I haven't done any EX primals because of it) but I grew used to it, but I doubt that it's something that will be fixed with time: it's a mentality that won't go away for at least some decades. If anything SE should attempt to cater to those people as well so that people who want to do SR and quick runs can do it with their own teams, and leave the "normals" with normal runs....but considering they love their gates in their dungeons, this won't ever happen and will only frustrate both of the worlds.

For as much as it's a problem and a nuisance, I'm very sorry to say "Welcome to MMORPGs of the 2010s".

...I highly recommend grouping with friends or FCs if you really hope to do this properly :/

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I believe that's why it comes comes down to us as the Players to keep the community in the right direction- to help new-comers and long-time mmo players alike.
SQEX literally adds various content to try keep the bridge between "pro-players" and "casual-players" open, such as having Duty Roulettes and bonus/ticket rewards to redo content that new players still need to pass: it rewards them just by helping out new players, whilst new players get to simply proceed in the story onto new interesting content. There is an even greater reward to all players provided when there is even just 1 new person to said challenge!

There are no "bad players" per se, (though some players who call people noob and insults their play styles say otherwise), but we have to work with what we have, and do our best at it.
If you can find players with the Party Finder or your FC, then go for it! They're there for such a reason! ^^ But the Duty Finder isn't to be abused by people who just want quick loot, when players need to clear content for the first time; as it says at the start of practically every Duty.
If players don't want to work together in this game full of team-based content, there may be little reason for them to play an online game such as this at all.

People gotta remember that it's the community that makes this game and keeps it online with new content regularly, and with no community, there won't be a game.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Ain't nobody got time for that. Seriously, everyone is all about doing things fast as possible anything that causes them to slow down is met with a rage quit.

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Which is reeeaaaaaallllyyyy needed considering the content we have to do.....xD
I love how people always whine about "OMG i'm bored already" 2 days after new patch and yet still keep rushing and ruining new players experiment cause "you know, i don't have time for this"....well actually you do until nex patch xD

Sometimes you can just tell when a group isn't going to succeed. Better to leave at that point and eat the penalty.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

Sometimes you can just tell when a group isn't going to succeed. Better to leave at that point and eat the penalty.

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Except, when I've been in situations where someone in our group says something along these lines and leaves, 9 out of 10 times we've beaten the content. :)

I watch guides if I'm going to be doing something the first time through DF, but I need to get a feel for the content to truly have mechanics ingrained. Seeing someone do something is one thing. Doing it yourself is another. Knowing what you're going into definitely helps, though!

While I agree with both parties, I'm going to have to side with the people defending the new players. Allow me to elaborate. Many players who hit 60 are excited to learn mechanics and try to improve themselves by doing dungeons. Watching a video only teaches you so much, you need to practice the routine before you can actually get it down. Now heres where the problem occurs, players expect new players to get it down perfectly, but if even one mess up happens they rage. The problem with that is than the new player begins to have anxiety, and are discouraged from doing any form of end game. Because of this, the raiding community doesn't see any new faces, and the veteran raiders can't find new players to fill up their Raiding FC, and when the veterans begin to quit, they can't find fresh blood therefore their entire raiding comp dies. Now I hear the excuse "I don't have time for this" well than don't play an MMO, they're very time consuming.

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Originally Posted by Evumeimei

Except, when I've been in situations where someone in our group says something along these lines and leaves, 9 out of 10 times we've beaten the content. :)

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Then it works out for both sides, the person that wants to leave finds a different group and your party gets a new person that wants to keep going. Sounds like it's working fine to me. :p

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

Then it works out for both sides, the person that wants to leave finds a different group and your party gets a new person that wants to keep going. Sounds like it's working fine to me. :p

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Doesn't always work like this. People have to opt in to join a in progress group and many do not. I have sat and waited for a replacement tank for 25 mins before the group gave up and abandoned to reque.

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Originally Posted by Worldofwarcraft

While I agree with both parties, I'm going to have to side with the people defending the new players. Allow me to elaborate. Many players who hit 60 are excited to learn mechanics and try to improve themselves by doing dungeons. Watching a video only teaches you so much, you need to practice the routine before you can actually get it down. Now heres where the problem occurs, players expect new players to get it down perfectly, but if even one mess up happens they rage. The problem with that is than the new player begins to have anxiety, and are discouraged from doing any form of end game. Because of this, the raiding community doesn't see any new faces, and the veteran raiders can't find new players to fill up their Raiding FC, and when the veterans begin to quit, they can't find fresh blood therefore their entire raiding comp dies. Now I hear the excuse "I don't have time for this" well than don't play an MMO, they're very time consuming.

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As someone who joined this game roughly a year ago, I can say with some authority that this is true. I have a quest journal full of Ex trials that I don't want to queue in DF for, because I don't want to put up with people who don't have time for new-comers. I used to be a hard-core raider in other games, but I never did understand the mentality of "I don't have time to teach a new person." It's silly, because that new person might become your most valued raid member (I've seen it happen!). It's not like taking an extra 20-30 mins to finish something is going to make a difference in the long-term.

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Originally Posted by MaeIsMean

It's not like taking an extra 20-30 mins to finish something is going to make a difference in the long-term.

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You said it, most of the players don't think about long term like we used to in older MMOs :/

I stopped queueing for ex primals in DF after a hideous experience in Titan EX where I was eventually kicked because I kept being knocked off as I learned the fight.

It was disappointing, because I'd queued for Garuda EX for like three hours, and ended up with a really nice, friendly group and a co-healer who explained the mech to me, and sure we wiped three times but we did beat it! And I left feeling really good about it. And then titan just killed my confidence for a long time. (and this was before the mentor system existed, too)

A thing I don't understand, especially with older primals, is the expectation that you should back out and do it unsynched. I'm not a mentor, but my partner once got Odin on the mentor roulette and they still cleared it. Hell, my own Odin clear was admittedly at lv60, but in lv50 gear and with no 50+ skills because I was only halfway through the patch quests.

I actually got my Thordan EX clear through duty finder, through queueing for it over and over again and wiping over and over again, but learning! And most of those groups went right up to the timer before we ended up disbanding due to just not having enough time for another pull.

That said, I have very bad self-confidence issues. From that one Titan EX as a healer, to being kicked from Mhach for no reason after an Ozma wipe as a tank (I was mid-explanation of the fight, too), I'm always wary of joining clear or farm groups even if I know the fight because if I DO mess up, I'm concerned people will never want to party with me again.

People are too toxic. Sure, nobody enjoys wiping for ninety minutes, but nobody enjoys being verbally abused and then kicked for learning, either. It's not hard to be kind, and don't queue for something if you don't have time for the entire timer, imo.

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Originally Posted by Celef

You said it, most of the players don't think about long term like we used to in older MMOs :/

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It's a problem when a game like this doesn't really promote longterm mentality: each even patch gives new dungeons/raids with new loot in them and makes the old ones totally obsolete, as they don't give any benefits in the longterm (No bonus sets, no special effects, nothing). And the old dungeons that were there will also be ignored because they give no long term rewards (special achivements, costumes, etc) Even the relic isn't worth on the long run, yet it involves grinding for basically a piece of glamour.
The only thing that is saved is the EX trials who had the greatest idea of giving mounts, allowing them to still be run overall. But you won't see this in things like Raid (why would you bother raid Coil? The story? Go on youtube then) or dungeons (the occasional glamour that doesn't totally suck).

In other words, everything in this game is done once and left it to rot, basically the "hit and run" which doesn't really allow new players to come in and learn because...hey I want that mount I don't care about teaching new players!
Change that and you'll see the difference. They won't change anyway so nothing will.
A very sad decision if I may add.

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Originally Posted by Evumeimei

Except, when I've been in situations where someone in our group says something along these lines and leaves, 9 out of 10 times we've beaten the content. :)

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lol I see this happen all the time, I think the reason for it is the person is so negative that they don't give it 100% from the start.

That's all well and good but when you have newbies who despite being told what to do and translated if language barrier and they still refuse to listen that annoys me alot, let's also remember most mechanics are just simple common sense it shouldn't need explaining if you lack common sense then something is serously wrong.

Just FYI, I'm one of those players who don't read guides or watch videos on how to do stuff because... What's the fun in just copying someone else or not making your own mistakes, or keeping the mystery in the story...

I will gladly admit that I have been the cause of a couple of pt wipes. But honestly if you want to farm something then create a party, if your in df then you will find people like me.

It's not hard to que for a trial and never get an ex or nidhogg...

I try to be understanding and accommodating, but after a certain point, I value my time too much to keep at it. Either a bad player is getting a vote, a bad group is getting a vote, or I'll just plain leave. There's no point in wasting my time when it's clear that a collective group just isn't going to clear the content. Back when Bismarck EX was (kind of) relevant, for example, there was a group where the tanks could not grab the two serpent mobs correctly and pull them to where they needed to be. It happened four times in a row. There's just no point in sticking with that, continuing to wipe when no improvements are being made as they wipe the group over and over.

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Originally Posted by Evumeimei

Except, when I've been in situations where someone in our group says something along these lines and leaves, 9 out of 10 times we've beaten the content. :)

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This happens to me so often that I would go so far as to say that their negative attitude may even be the very reason for failure. The people who are inexperienced are learning and getting better, but the people who start thinking "this is terrible" are probably not giving a great performance. As soon as they leave the group often succeeds.

Edit: Hah, I see #21 above said the same thing. That's what I get for replying to things I left at home after getting back from work.