Bard or Machinist?

Heya, I was just wondering with the recent buffs to Brd, if it's better to play or if Mch is the more desirable of the two? Also how is Bard with WM as my Bard is only 50 at the moment and I was planning to level it via Deep Dungeon so I could get that sweet sweet energy bow for him and kill two birds with one stone.

While Wanderer's Minuet feels like a complete gameplay changer when you get it, the additions of Empyreal Arrow and Iron Jaws make life so much easier for a BRD main. Iron Jaws instantly refreshes your DoTs while Empyreal Arrow is a separate oGCD with a 14s CD and is one of the biggest nukes in our arsenal (and maybe our biggest since it can be used with Barrage, unlike Sidewinder). As friendly advice, you can move without interrupting your cast when the bar is at around 70% (around 1s) and adding more skill speed makes your casts and cooldowns shorter.

MCH has a similar mechanic with Gauss Barrel but the Reloading mechanic gives you instacast procs along the damage up of the procs. That and the turret accounts for a certain % of your DPS.

They both have a place in a party, depending on if you have 2 casters or 2 melee, BRD gets to shine more with the Battle Voice and song changes, you can Battle Voice Foe Requiem more often, MCH will normally use Hypercharge with the Turret to decrease the enemy's p.def. This IS coming from a BRD main but choose whichever you like best unless your static is aiming for world first.

Oh, I'm not in a static or anything. I'm a Blm/Smn trying to find a change in gameplay. I was trying out tank for a while and did enjoy my time, but felt that I wouldn't be as good of a tank as I am with my Blm/Smn. I was thinking of Brd or Mch since they have the range component that I enjoy but are a physical class so it makes a bit of a compromise between magic and melee. I do have Mch up to 55, but I find that I feel like I can't quite keep up with, though I don't know if that's just personal feelings or if I'm actually not keeping up with it's play style. Bard feels easier for me and I won't lie, a big part of thinking of Bard is cause of the super sweet energy bow they can get from Deep Dungeon as I'm a sucker for energy bows.

Try both.

Obviously I'm slightly biased towards one but... try both and see how you like it.
(Remember, if you're doing it for the glowbow: glamour is endgame)

Well I have Mch at 55 and Bard at 50 so I have played them quite a bit. I do prefer Bard a bit more since it is a tad easier to play for me than Mch, but just wanted to ask before I commit so as not end up going a job that may not be as well accepted as another one

MCH feels clunky and BRD feels shallow.

#2c

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Originally Posted by Anienai

MCH feels clunky and BRD feels shallow.

#2c

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I can't for the life of me think about what is clunky about MCH. Everything flows smoothly and follows cooldowns + HS/LS timers. Unimaginative maybe, but clunky naw.

OP all I can say is get both to 60 and play around because honestly neither are a cut and dry better choice over the other in all situations. Not to mention that what might be dummy parser better now may not be in the next balance patch!

I'm on the phone so bear with me!

I've mained BRD for a couple of years, and for the past several months have been on MCH. I'm actually not bias to either since I enjoy them both for different reasons, but will admit that I've chosen to pursue MCH as my main moving forward.

Right away I will agree with anyone who tells you that starting at 52 the gameplay changes fairly dramatically than what you're accustomed to prior. Although I'd personally urge you only to use WM/GB for applying DoTs and then toggle it off until you get to 54. That's just my personal opinion, though.

With BRD you will have less mobility than a MCH at endgame, but once you're comfortable with your cast bar you'll find you do have ample opportunity to move as needed. BRD is also more forgiving of the two; spreading DoTs will accumulate a good portion of your overall damage output. You are also more TP efficient than a MCH with your procs, especially in AoE situations. I consider BRD superior sustained damage compared to its MCH counterpart at the cost of slightly less mobility but slightly more potent "support". Warden's Peon is actually relatively useful now and the adjustments to songs cast time and the reduction of Battle Voice's cool down make it easier to swap songs as needed, and keep that 20% magic debuff up for your caster and healer buddies.

In my opinion, BRD is easier to pick up and excel at.

Where MCH shines is its mobility and quirkiness. I enjoy the ammo system, it keeps things interesting for me as no two encounters may play out the same. It demands a bit more awareness and quicker thinking on your feet throughout battle if you intend to maximize your damage output and keep up with your BRD friends these days. While MCH will only ever offer half the potency of a magic debuff compared to BRD, they also come with an equivalent physical debuff. Your party composition will determine which you may want to utilize during combat. MCH do not compromise their personal MP pool to offer these debuffs for increased party damage output, unlike BRD, so also bear that in mind. While a MCH cannot offer a 20% magic debuff like BRD, the BRD does empty their personal MP pool to do this. In a clutch situation where something unforseen might happen, it could be the difference between having MP to spare to play TP/MP songs or not. It's happened to me several times, but not enough to warrant choosing MCH over BRD per say. Just keep that in mind, MCH will always have the "safety net" of their MP pool to use should you need to offer TP or MP for your fellow party members.

Likewise! BRD has much more control over Foe's Requiem, they can toggle it on/off as needed. Unlike MCH who rely on their Hypercharge cooldown. Once you pop Hypercharge you're committed to it and the particular turret that was hypercharged. The only exception here is swapping that turret's mode from offensive to defenive.

In AoE situations a MCH can usually burn things down faster with the use of their Rapid Fire cooldown. They don't proc through DoTs like BRD, so spreading them to more than a couple enemies may be time consuming for little gain. In exchange for quicker AoE burst the MCH suffers on TP effciency, so balancing that is the key. I do feel MCH have more off-global cooldowns to spare than BRD, as well.

Overall, as some have already advised, try them both. I feel they're both very viable and enjoyable, and in the right hands have a powerful presence in any group. MCH is more a "jack of all trades but master of none" that will challenge you should you desire to keep up with your fellow damage dealers in output. It'll make you think a bit more about your cooldowns and how you may want to line things up, and also urge you to learn when you have openings in combat to capitalize on your Wildfire burst. BRD is a bit calmer of playstyle (in my opinion) and doesn't need very long to burst. To me, BRD takes less coordination to pull off adequately but by no means does that make it a brainless job to play. You'll know right away when you have a "good" BRD or MCH as opposed to one that is less so.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

I can't for the life of me think about what is clunky about MCH. Everything flows smoothly and follows cooldowns + HS/LS timers. Unimaginative maybe, but clunky naw.

OP all I can say is get both to 60 and play around because honestly neither are a cut and dry better choice over the other in all situations. Not to mention that what might be dummy parser better now may not be in the next balance patch!

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I shall give MCH another try then.

I enjoy others classes, but Bard will always be my main. It's a fun job.

Recommendation: hop in Palace of the Dead and try out both in the post-caster level ranges. I prefer MCH between the two, but I also find it kind of annoying to have to place a turret down at the start of every fight (which is even worse in PotD since you're so mobile in there). MCH is the way to go if you have gotten tired of being a stationary caster on BLM.

Personal experience with both at 60! I played BRD from release through Heavensward, and wanted to try MCH instantly. I got it to 60 super quick, and then got kind of..."stuck" with it, because I didn't want to go back and level BRD on principle with the way they butchered the job meta on mobility. Trouble is, MCH is a completely different beast and I was no longer skilled or sufficient DPS in my opinion. I cleared all the coil tiers and primals pre echo every patch something new was released on BRD, and did it...decently. Not the best, not the worst.

These days most people probably don't expect the support jobs to bring the Deeps. It's going to be real easy to blend into the crowd of mediocre or sub-standard. Don't do that to yourself unless your conscious is ok with it. Otherwise prepare to study forums and tips/guides online, and practice practice practice. Use sky stone sea dummies to benchmark yourself as various iLvls. (ie. look at the minimum ilvl recommended for a fight, then when you get that ilvl, go fight the SSS dummy and see if you clear it. if you can't- you need to improve.)

I hold both of these classes dear to my heart and I hate to see people play either job for fun when ultimately their "fun" means they really pan-handle at dumpster diving for half the dps of every other dps class, fighting for dps scraps with the tanks and cleric stance'd scholars.

For something constructive -
BRD is closer to blm. MCH is closer to SMN. BRD/BLM run on a fairly regular rhythm with a few quirks along the way. MCH and SMN get complex with timing and micromanaging certain things, and you get punished pretty hard for making mistakes because the mistakes play out in the form of bad timing for the duration of a fight. BLM and BRD have an easier time recovering from those timing mistakes, IMO.

WM takes time to get used to, but once you get over the fact that you've become an arrowmancer, you'll find that it's not as bad of a change as some people make it out to be. Most movement you've been doing pre-WM is wasted movement anyways, and you'll find that staying still and moving only when necessary, while a little less fun, is still very much manageable.

As far as the biggest differences between bards and machinists go, I find that bards are easier to play and have more stable dps, while machinists tend to be a little more tricky and far more bursty. Both can pull great numbers, but you'll work harder for those numbers on a machinist. Also, it's worth pointing out that bards generally work better with casters due to foes debuffing magic resistance, while a machinist's equivalent can do either melee or magic, but has a much smaller range for magic. Both are still very useful in any group configuration, but your going to shine your best with those types of groups setups.

I find mch to be more complicated job to play than brd but both are good depending on how you play to fully benefit mch is knowing when to turn on gauss barrel for insta cast on hot shot lead shot and aoes if your a quick pace player and also knowing when to use your reload bullets and wildfire for brd you can use wm and iron jaws after using initial dots and movement would be an issue and the quick recast on bloodletter makes the job more beneficial when it triggers foe requiem would make it easier to do more dps for casters and mage ballad to revover mp for healers mch sucks at times beacause you got to know how to use your turrets and knowing when to hypercharge again knowing what turrets to use there both good range support dps its just how to trigger support commands at right times.