Deep Dungeon RNG is way more frustrating than fun.

So my first run through I loved the Deep Dungeon, it was new and exciting. I finished with 23/19. Two runs later I'm at 27/23. Today I do a run and from 31-50 there was two upgrades. Literally just two. Every other silver chest that showed up was an explosive or a mimic. I'm not saying it should be fast and easy to get to 30/30 but it really just makes me not want to bother when I can go ten entire floors without even seeing a silver chest. Then when one finally does show up, it's an explosive. Or even if I'm on floor 49 I'm still not getting upgrades on the few chests that aren't traps.

It's not the only way to get a 235+ weapon you know. Even with crappy rng, this takes waaaaaaaaaay less time than the relic or presumably the 245 from a8s, and nidhogg can give you multiple weapons in the time you get one from here (depending on how fast you can learn/clear it).

Besides, you get exp on non lvl 60 classes and tokens for the mount/minions/materia for each floor 50 clear and a rare chest drop. It's not like you're leaving empty handed anyway

RNG is fine. The problem is that the "reward" or payoff for getting lucky after a string of failures is not worth it in this system. Instead of being satisfied when a chest drops, is not a trap, and succeeds in the upgrade, I only feel "meh". Especially when I know I have to repeat that succession of disappointments and frustrations all over again many more times. There are way too many low points and the high points don't balance them out.

It's not quite the same, but Diablo games make RNG tolerable by giving immediate, satisfying improvements when you finally get that set piece or perfect roll. The payoff for your persistence feels GOOD. You can go hours without seeing anything worth using but as soon as that ancient legendary weapon with excellent rolls drops, you feel like a god as enemies that gave you trouble suddenly fall in droves before you. Deep Dungeon could take a few design lessons from that: make our progress mean something!

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

RNG is fine.

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No. RNG is the bane of all that is good and holy and needs to be killed with righteous fire. It's the shittiest system one can possibly imagine, breeding nothing but injustice and frustration.

/hardfeelings

RNG is fine as long there is some form of guaranteed reward, even if it's very small or takes a long time. It makes sure the RNG rewards feel as bonus rather than that you feel the bad luck constantly, and get nothing at all. And if it feels like a bonus, it's definitely more fun. Considering they did give a guaranteed reward at the end after the patch, I think the system is fine now.

I mean.... ehhhh. Rng is rng. But running 41-50 and not getting a single +1 is hella annoying.

RNG represents everything I hate about FF's game design in general. Just like you, I found PotD fun and interesting on my first and second runs through, because it does have good ideas and design. Except then they ruined it by adding all the RNG in, and tying that horrible RNG to progression.

That's how a lot of FF games work, really. Start with a solid core of gameplay design, then artificially pad it out with RNG. That's both insulting and lazy on the part of the designers, and while it is most prolific in FF XIV, it's far from the first FF to feature this horrid philosophy. Pink Tails from FF IV is only the first example to come to mind. And the worst part is all the people who will actually defend the use of RNG in this manner. Forcing the player to grind for 40+ hours does not constitute "gameplay", it's an experiment in how easy it is to fool someone into doing the same things over and over again, just like a computer, while convincing them that this is fun and worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by Mysterysword

RNG represents everything I hate about FF's game design in general. Just like you, I found PotD fun and interesting on my first and second runs through, because it does have good ideas and design. Except then they ruined it by adding all the RNG in, and tying that horrible RNG to progression.

That's how a lot of FF games work, really. Start with a solid core of gameplay design, then artificially pad it out with RNG. That's both insulting and lazy on the part of the designers, and while it is most prolific in FF XIV, it's far from the first FF to feature this horrid philosophy. Pink Tails from FF IV is only the first example to come to mind. And the worst part is all the people who will actually defend the use of RNG in this manner. Forcing the player to grind for 40+ hours does not constitute "gameplay", it's an experiment in how easy it is to fool someone into doing the same things over and over again, just like a computer, while convincing them that this is fun and worthwhile.

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Well put. RNG is an easy way to extend content lifetime and looking at PotD this is exacly what they thought what was needed, because lets be honest: Doing that thing in a group is about as "exciting" and non entertaining as doing Diadem.
It's 2 hours of meaningless, mindless trash for one boss that has a tiny bit of movement involved.
YAAAWN.

So, ofc they had to put in a glowing carrot / stick and make it frustrating hard to obtain by tweaking RNG numbers in order to keep in populated for at least a while.

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Originally Posted by Vulcwen

RNG is fine as long there is some form of guaranteed reward, even if it's very small or takes a long time. It makes sure the RNG rewards feel as bonus rather than that you feel the bad luck constantly, and get nothing at all. And if it feels like a bonus, it's definitely more fun. Considering they did give a guaranteed reward at the end after the patch, I think the system is fine now.

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They could build it into the challenge log. Open x silver chests= gain 1/1 Aetherpool, Kill x NM's= pick reward from one NM you killed etc etc. Though depending on the rng based content in question they might want different reset timers, or no reset timers and simply a flat number nd then reset. I can imagine people wanting to be able to select the reward in there own time instead of getting it instaneously. Would suck for folks getting 30/30 and at the same time their challenge log reward.

PotD is fun, and the content is great for trying new jobs or just having fun with your old one. But, the RNG sucks. Frankly, it feels bad and is the opposite of fun. Starting from floor 1 at 30/27, going all the way to 50 to be stuck at 30/29. 2 upgrades for 1-50 out of 9 silver chests (that didn't blow up or were mimics). And speaking of blowing up or becoming mimics: I think if they want to have it so chests can explode or turn into mimics, then you need to put A LOT more silver chests out there. RNG to even get a silver chest PLUS RNG to have it not blow up/mimic PLUS RNG to get an upgrade or not is too much. It sucks and its a HUGE disincentive to continue to do PotD. I get that they wanted us to grind through deep dungeon, but we're already grinding getting all those sweet weapons, if not for glamour alone. So, stop making it doubly or triply grindy on top of it. Please!

RNG is the sole key system to the whole existence of most content in this game, the only way their content stays "alive" is cause of it. Because they make content to be last, not to be fun. Who is its sane mind would like to do deep dungeon for the fun of it with a steady player driven progression? Of course no one! how silly! making a game to be fun and to have replayable content!

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Originally Posted by Dewslam

So my first run through I loved the Deep Dungeon, it was new and exciting. I finished with 23/19. Two runs later I'm at 27/23. Today I do a run and from 31-50 there was two upgrades. Literally just two. Every other silver chest that showed up was an explosive or a mimic. I'm not saying it should be fast and easy to get to 30/30 but it really just makes me not want to bother when I can go ten entire floors without even seeing a silver chest. Then when one finally does show up, it's an explosive. Or even if I'm on floor 49 I'm still not getting upgrades on the few chests that aren't traps.

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i feel like 4 or 5 runs of deep dungeon for an i level weapon HIGHER than the hperconductive relic is very manageable. trust me. Dont forget by that time you've probably capped your lore,got gil and didnt have to pay a dime for repairs.

It's all fun and games until you get seven unchanged in a row. Add that to the constant chests blowing up in your face.

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Originally Posted by OoglieBooglie

It's not the only way to get a 235+ weapon you know. Even with crappy rng, this takes waaaaaaaaaay less time than the relic or presumably the 245 from a8s, and nidhogg can give you multiple weapons in the time you get one from here (depending on how fast you can learn/clear it).

Besides, you get exp on non lvl 60 classes and tokens for the mount/minions/materia for each floor 50 clear and a rare chest drop. It's not like you're leaving empty handed anyway

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This is not all about wanting a 235 weapon bu because padjali weapon can be more interesting.
For example,I took the one for Bard which has Crit and Skill Speed. Nidhogg gives Crit and Deter.

Silver chests are annoying, but I'm go ahead and add this as I have in the other threads. Using the Pomander of Safety (you know the one that's supposed to disable ALL traps) should turn exploding silver chests in to normal ones.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

i feel like 4 or 5 runs of deep dungeon for an i level weapon HIGHER than the hperconductive relic is very manageable. trust me. Dont forget by that time you've probably capped your lore,got gil and didnt have to pay a dime for repairs.

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I've done four runs and am still only 26/27
Last run the only upgrade I got on all 50 floors was from the boss.
That's grotesque.

I have little issue with the RNG in general (RNG always hates me no matter what the situation, but I've made my peace with it). The only real issue I have with it is that you can get your aetherpool gear to, for example, +30/+27 and silver coffers will still try to upgrade your arm instead of your armor even though it's maxed. THAT needs to be changed. Everything else, while frustrating, I can live with.