Is this considering RMT by SE ?

Hi there,

Not here to start a troll thread or anything, just having a real question and i'd like, if possible, to have an answer from someone working for SE but first, a little example so everyone see the point :

In RIFT, they added a cashop too, with a "make a gift" function. Easy working you buy something for someone and it's sent in their mail box.
A new business started from that concept, buying a gift, heres how it works:

A has plenty of in game money but not in real life so you can't buy anything from CS, on the other hand, B is rich outside and want to make some in game money, the 2 agree on a price, A sends the found to B who buy in the CS using the make a gift option, everyone is happy and there is rainbows in the sky and flying unicorns.
Now, i don't think Trion ever made a statement regarding this and it seems to be working (used that function myself to get some glam i did not want to spend real money on) sooooo here is my question :

Does SE, sees this as RMT or not ? In other words, can I ask someone to buy me Fantasia for example in exchange for gils ?

Please, do not try to kill each others on this thread :3

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Originally Posted by Celef

Does SE, sees this as RMT or not ? In other words, can I ask someone to buy me Fantasia for example in exchange for gils ?

Please, do not try to kill each others on this thread :3

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They didn't liked people selling the wedding bracelets, there was a huge discussion about it as they were new. So it wouldn't surprise me, if anything else (if even trade able and fantasia isn't unless they changed that) would fall under the same category, whatever GM's wanna call it.

Trading in game items or currency for real money is real money trading. Will you be caught? Probably only if you advertised your intention on a forum post.

Well you can buy Fantasia for someone else using the make a gift function , my boy friend did it for me last month, for free of course (and a chicken curry ^^")

Its Real money trading, exacly what RMT stands for so...yes it is considered RMT in my book.

I always thought RMT was only trading real money for in game money, does it also applied to items, content clears etc ? i mean is there a real "definition" or does every game company has it's own ?
Also, no real money is exchanged in that situation only items and in game currencies so that's why i get confused about it

Real money (person buying the mogstation item) is being traded for something in the game (in-game currency or items), so yes, that's RMT.

If someone actually sends a gift without getting any compensation, that's okay, but as soon as they pay out real money and get compensation in another form (in-game currency or items) then it's no longer a gift and that is essentially a trade and RMT.

Does SE care though? Probably... as mentioned above they weren't at all happy about wedding bands being sold in game so I don't know what they may/may not do, but I would personally just play it safe and not get involved at all. But that's me :)

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

but I would personally just play it safe and not get involved at all. But that's me :)

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Same as you but i was wondering because this : "I doubt it breaks the ToS. You spend your real money on them and you sell them to someone for gil in game. The cash isn't trading hands, it's going to SE." - source Reddit regarding the sell of weeding bracelet -
That sentence make me confused cause, well yes you are selling cash shop items for gils thus, it is RMT as stated by the definition BUT you don't get any real money, it all goes to SE and that's why, imho, Trion did not do anything regarding this, cause in the end, they are the winner, getting money they would not have get otherwise cause the buyer of the item would not have spend real money in the CS.

What do you guys think regarding that situation ?

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Originally Posted by Celef

Well you can buy Fantasia for someone else using the make a gift function , my boy friend did it for me last month, for free of course (and a chicken curry ^^")

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Real Curry Trading.

*has nothing to add other then a lul*

It's all semantics at this point.


A person gives you a Mogstation item as a gift, you shake their hand and name your first born son after them.
The holidays roll around and you remember that kind individual, giving them cute little minion worth 1 mil and saying Merry Christmas.


What's the difference? I'd hardly call it organized crime when SE is being paid for the item on Mogstation.

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That sentence make me confused cause, well yes you are selling cash shop items for gils thus, it is RMT as stated by the definition BUT you don't get any real money, it all goes to SE and that's why, imho, Trion did not do anything regarding this, cause in the end, they are the winner, getting money they would not have get otherwise cause the item would not have spend real money in the CS.

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The person who is selling is converting cash into gil and the person buying is converting gil into cash(albeit an item that is bought for gil instead of real money) so yes it is real money trading.

That's why the user agreement says real money or VALUE:

2.2 Real Money Trading, Farming and Power-Leveling. You may not sell, purchase or exchange for real-world money or value any in-game currency, accounts, characters, in-game services, or in-game virtual items. You may not play the Game for the purpose of acquiring virtual items or advancement in game play on behalf of a third-party or for the purpose of selling any virtual assets to a third party for real-world money, specifically including "gold-farming" and power-leveling services.

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Originally Posted by Celef

I always thought RMT was only trading real money for in game money, does it also applied to items, content clears etc ? i mean is there a real "definition" or does every game company has it's own ?
Also, no real money is exchanged in that situation only items and in game currencies so that's why i get confused about it

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If there is a trade of real money for a clear. Yes that's RMT.
It's really no diffrence from being Power Leveled for real money

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Originally Posted by Celef

I always thought RMT was only trading real money for in game money, does it also applied to items, content clears etc ? i mean is there a real "definition" or does every game company has it's own ?
Also, no real money is exchanged in that situation only items and in game currencies so that's why i get confused about it

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Person A buy Phantasia to sell it to Person B for gil =Person A use his real money to get gil

The gift feature exist to give the items to someone for free.

I think that yes, it is rmt and it has the same economic consequences of rmt.

Source: http://support.na.square-enix.com/fa...6&id=5382&la=1

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Real Money Trading (“RMT”). RMT is the selling and buying of virtual assets for real-world money, property, or services. “Virtual assets” include, but are not limited to, the following:

· Accounts

· Characters

· In-game currency (gil)

· In-game services

· In-game items or gift codes

· In-game property

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Also from the eu site (couldn't find a NA site version): http://support.eu.square-enix.com/ru...=giftcodeterms

Do it, and if you get banned you'll know it was against the rules. If you are looking for loopholes to make Gil then you're not playing the game in the spirit of how it was meant to be played.

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Originally Posted by Maxipep

Do it, and if you get banned you'll know it was against the rules.

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No thanks, was just wondering regarding what happens on other MMO ^^
(and wanted to talk about something else than "DD sucks" or the EU promotion regarding the maid outfit)

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Originally Posted by Maxipep

If you are looking for loopholes to make Gil then you're not playing the game in the spirit of how it was meant to be played.

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Well if i did such a thing would not be the first, some even did this for quite some times before it began an issue for SE....i think Yoshida had to go himself on a certain server to realize this ^^"

In order to be RMT, something of real-world value has to be traded for the in-game item or service.

Fantasia has NO real world value. Neither does anything else you can buy through the Mog Station. The fact that you had to pay for it is no more relevant than the fact that we all paid for the game itself. Once bought, it cannot be turned back into anything of real-world value. Its only value, and in fact its only existence, is within the game, just the same as gil. So trading it for gil should be perfectly acceptable.

The fact that it could be done through the Mog Station's gift function doesn't change the fact that it's an in-game item for an in-game currency. It's clearly not real money trading because neither party is getting money out of the deal.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

In order to be RMT, something of real-world value has to be traded for the in-game item or service.

Fantasia has NO real world value. Neither does anything else you can buy through the Mog Station.
<edit>

So trading it for gil should be perfectly acceptable.
<edit>

It's clearly not real money trading because neither party is getting money out of the deal.

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You are completely & utterly wrong. The "real world value" is a misnomer. If real world money is used at any time in the transaction trail & there is a recompense given in game then that's RMT. This has long been accepted & understood.

In fact, cash money doesn't actually have a value remotely close to the face value as it's a fiat currency . Now you know that you can use your theory about "no real world value" to steal some cash. Enjoy arguing with the Judge that the money was not really worth anything as it's just fiat .

So what about Rift's REX (an item you buy via CS for real money to get in game currency to buy item in CS) which is tradable on the market place or Guild wars 2 in game currency, again buyable and sellable by players ?

Is this, in you opinion, RMT activities considering it was created by the dev team itself ?

Because this is Final Fantasy XIV. What you see in one game isn't necessarily the same in other games.

Gift Code Overview

・Gift codes can be purchased for the sole purpose of giving another player a gift.

・The use of gift codes for any activity relating to, or suggesting the trade of real-world money, in-game currency, or in-game virtual items is strictly prohibited. Action
may be taken against users found to be in violation of the service agreement.

・Gift codes are valid for one use only.

・All gift codes issued will be listed under Payment History.

・All purchases of gift codes are final and non-refundable, regardless of whether or not said gift code has been used.

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Originally Posted by Maxipep

Because this is Final Fantasy XIV. What you see in one game isn't necessarily the same in other games.

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I know regardin FF14 but still, just for the debat how can we difference this from RMT ?

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Originally Posted by Celef

I know regardin FF14 but still, just for the debat how can we difference this from RMT ?

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Any way you look at it, in any game, it is RMT. But, each game has different rules on RMT. So in FF14, all RMT is against the rules. However in GW2, you may be able to sell cash shop items for in-game currency. Whereas in WoW you may be able to sell your entire account for real-world money. RMT is RMT but each game decides how much, if any, RMT is allowed.

(Also please note I haven't played GW2 or WoW, but those are just similar MMOs to FF14 that I could think of to draw a comparison for the illustration of my point.)

Technically I guess they could consider it RMT, but SE created the situation themselves. The more stuff they add to the mog shop and the more money they charge (looking at you $30 mount) the more likely this stuff is going to happen. There rich people in RL and there rich people in game and just swap wealth in a different way. In the end Person A get the mog shop item they want, Person B get gil and SE get paid money. Like said earlier SE created this situation themselves and if they don't want it going on then they need to have a in game way to get the items in addition to just being able to buy it off the mog shop.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Technically I guess they could consider it RMT, but SE created the situation themselves. The more stuff they add to the mog shop and the more money they charge (looking at you $30 mount) the more likely this stuff is going to happen. There rich people in RL and there rich people in game and just swap wealth in a different way. In the end Person A get the mog shop item they want, Person B get gil and SE get paid money. Like said earlier SE created this situation themselves and if they don't want it going on then they need to have a in game way to get the items in addition to just being able to buy it off the mog shop.

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Or if too much of this happens they will take away the gifting option.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Technically I guess they could consider it RMT, but SE created the situation themselves.

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There's no could, they do consider it RMT.

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Originally Posted by Bixillarla

Or if too much of this happens they will take away the gifting option.

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

There's no could, they do consider it RMT.

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SE likes money too much which why they charge what they do for the mog shop items. The money going to them not some gil selling company so SE would most likely turn a blind eye to it. Why would a company want to punish someone for giving them money.

It's not whether you consider it to be RMT it's how Se consider it, it seems you are trolling this in the hope that one person will say "no it's not RMT" so you can go ahead and make real money from an in game item and, if you're caught fall back on this thread. For a definitive answer try speaking with a GM

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Originally Posted by Lexia

SE likes money too much which why they charge what they do for the mog shop items. The money going to them not some gil selling company so SE would most likely turn a blind eye to it. Why would a company want to punish someone for giving them money.

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It doesn't matter why they would or would not. They've stated in their terms that it's considered RMT and by partaking in it you risk your account. Even the announcement for gift codes specified they didn't want them being traded for in-game currency: "* The use of gift codes for any activity relating to, or suggesting the trade of real-world money, in-game currency, or in-game virtual items is strictly prohibited." (source)

Sadly, yeah. There is a big notice when you go to buy a code to not trade it for in game Gil or items.

That said, I think it is silly and they should just make it tradable naturally. RMTers gonna RMT, and I would rather se gets the profits then some third party company. Plus it would be really beneficial for people like me. I craft and vend a lot in game and have a lot of Gil, but am currently a poor college student out of game. I would love to be able to spend my Gil on fantasias and such, since it is otherwise rather hard for me to come across. When I get out of college and have a full time job it would be better, but for now I wish I could just buy them off someone for Gil.

Other large MMOs and large games offer items for sale from their cash shop (be it sub tokens or mounts or whatever)

I'm not arguing against it and I didn't start the topic I just added to it. If a person bought 5 mog mounts ($30 a piece) SE would need 10 subs to make what that one person paid SE, which is why I said I would think they would turn a blind eye.

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Originally Posted by Celef

...Does SE, sees this as RMT or not ? In other words, can I ask someone to buy me Fantasia for example in exchange for gils ?....

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The example definitely is RMT, but likes real world lawsuit, GM should determine this by evidence of intent.
And RMTers can avoid being catched by not leaving any evidence.

For exmaple if we were friends, you share your gil to me, I gift you some fantasia while I browsing mogstaion, then now it should not be RMT. But someone still can say that "you two are trading real money for gil by reselling fantasia"

Actually it is too trouble to RMT via selling mog item, and it will not happen frequently because our gils buyers must be very very like really fast gils in large amount, and above process is too trouble and time comsuming, most important is those item could not be sold for large amount of gils, they won't do that logically ^^;

To the op: This is a very good question! And I have no idea, also seems like another one of those 'grey' areas because paint for example if you buy it in the mog station you can't turn around & sell it but yet it could technically be gifted while purchasing. Every time I call SE customer support they usually address my questions but on occasion they have no idea or it's a 'grey' area they tell me to ask support in game so that I can ask the gm directly, honestly I think that's your best option is to ask a gm, because some things they say nothing about while other things well I'm sure you get the picture.

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Originally Posted by coco1851

To the op: This is a very good question! And I have no idea, also seems like another one of those 'grey' areas because paint for example if you buy it in the mog station you can't turn around & sell it but yet it could technically be gifted while purchasing.

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Thank you :) That's why i created it, wanted to talk about something else than "disappointment" and thought it would be nice for everyone to share theire own thougts regarding this :)