Primal songs - what do they mean?

So like many of my fellow adventurers, I love many of the theme songs that accompany the primals. I know you can just say they're background music and aren't canon, but it's interesting to think about them and give some context as to what they are. Clearly they are diverse and sung from many perspectives (if indeed they have lyrics).

Personally I've always taken each song to be the prayers the beast tribes gave to the primal to summon them. Leviathan's theme is all about the Sahagin praying for Leviathan to swallow the land, Ravana's is a call for war from the Gnath. Good king moggle mog is... well good king moggle mog.

Shiva's is especially interesting as it sounds like a song about Ysayle on the brink of freezing to death suddenly being invigorated with power and "becoming the reaper"; her first time becoming Shiva?

Anyone else got any thoughts on the primal songs?

I love how empowering Shiva's feels to what her desires are. At the same time it kind of has that "rebellious high school girl" vibe to it but I feel that charm works really well with her. I actually heard the theme before I even got this game and fell in love with it but had no idea what the whole context was. Now upon actually knowing the story it really fits well.
Hearing Garuda's definitely has that whole fallen angel vibe but because she's kinda sorta Batshit crazy, it's all sorts of wild. Makes me feel like it's a Storm that really has no sign of ending.
Ifrit is the only one I'm not sure of what to think, probably cause I haven't actually fought him much.

I'm pretty certain that the original intention that the 1.0 Tanaka-era development team had for Primal battles was that Uematsu was directed to only compose one base battle theme for all Primal fights - hence why the track was called Primal Judgement. However, after 1.0's disastrous launch, Tanaka was replaced as producer by Yoshi and Soken was brought on board as sound director and composer, replacing Uematsu as composer (who was working under third-party contract), this idea was obviously scrapped and thus Primal Judgement only ended up being used as Ifrit's battle theme in both 1.0 and ARR. Not that was a bad thing - I think it suits Ifrit's personality perfectly.

As for Soken's individual themes, he's famously on record for stating that for each Primal theme he was given fairly specific instructions on how the track was to be done, but for Titan he was given a lot more freedom and decided to experiment (hence why Titan has four separate tracks used through each stage of the battle, culminating in the vocal track Under the Weight). So I guess he probably approached the other themes in much the same way.

Incidentally, if you take note of the lyrics for each Primal theme, Koji-Fox's lyrics for each track do give a certain idea as to the personality of that Primal and their summoners - from the kobold's anger at the 'overdwellers' encroaching into their territory in Under the Weight to the individual members of the Mooglesguard in Good King Moggle Mog the XIIth to Ravana's bloodlust in Unbending Steel, each are representative of their individual Primals and gives the listener/player a certain insight into the insanity and despair of these beings and those who were tricked into summoning by the Ascians.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/f...threads/165146

The song lyrics compendium and discussion from the lore section. :D

There's two things to keep in mind when you think about the primal music:

Koji Fox writes the lyrics - so absolutely they are canon. But there's also the fact that the lyrics are written under a deadline in a chaotic atmosphere. As development progresses, songs that were written for one thing might end up being used for something entirely different. The song for Bismarck got switched with a song in Alexander midway through development, for instance. Both had to be adjusted, lyrically. So when lyrics get attached to melodies, they might be canon, but they might not also be all that meaningful. They might just be aptly-flavored vagueness.

Example: "7-2-3-2-3-SEND."
Koji said that there's no hidden code there. It has no meaning, but he might go back and make one just because.

The way I look at the lyrics, they're a snapshot in time - the battle itself. They have some thematic elements about the primal in general, and some lines about their origin, and some lines about how they see the world. But at the core, they are a look into the primal's mind as they engage the Warrior of Light in battle. (Again, that's how I interpret it, not The One Truth.)

Is there a specific song you'd like to dissect? I'm better at this when I have a focus, lol.

What I love about the primal songs is that they tell a lot about the singer him/herself, who is not always the Primal. Examply: my favorite song is Ramuh's "Thunder Rolls" and it's a chant sung by the Sylphs to honor Ramuh and ask for his blessing and judgement. While Shiva's seems to be at a point between a young Ysayle and then Iceheart choosing a path and becoming Shiva, song from her PoV.

But, the one I find most chilling is Garuda's, because it only needs a haunting chorus and then a female voice (I always figured it was Garuda's) saying "Now fall." It's a complete calm before the storm kind of thing...

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

But, the one I find most chilling is Garuda's, because it only needs a haunting chorus and then a female voice (I always figured it was Garuda's) saying "Now fall." It's a complete calm before the storm kind of thing...

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Listen closer next time! There are more lyrics to it.

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Falling to far from the light. Deeper into the night.
Lost here inside my own hell. I am a broken angel.

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Originally Posted by Mholito

Listen closer next time! There are more lyrics to it.

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I've been listening intently for those lyrics since 1.X and I can still only barely-sortof-kinda make out a voice that maybe-might-possibly-probably saying those things, lol

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Originally Posted by Rocl

I've been listening intently for those lyrics since 1.X and I can still only barely-sortof-kinda make out a voice that maybe-might-possibly-probably saying those things, lol

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They appear during the repeat of the vocal part from the opening of the theme.

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Originally Posted by Mholito

They appear during the repeat of the vocal part from the opening of the theme.

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Yeah, its basically impossible to hear them. I was listening to it earlier (have the soundtrack) and its just barely there

IMO, its more annoying than anything, because you can just barely hear *something* but can't make out what it is.

I do wonder at times about Sephirot's theme, it seems like it could ambiguously be directed to the player character in present day Eorzea, to the Allagan invasion of Meracydia, to the "Remnants of Sephirot" themselves, or to something else entirely.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Example: "7-2-3-2-3-SEND."

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Where is this from, this lyric or song isn't ringing a bell?

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Where is this from, this lyric or song isn't ringing a bell?

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It's from Locus (from the earlier levels of Alexander)

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Twenty-two sectors tested
Fragments in one direction
Celestial noise detected
Delirium unsuspected
Static tuned in to reason
Time in the aether deepens
Transmissions blink uncompleted
Seven two three two three...<send>

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If you have an hour to kill, Soken and Koji put on a music panel at PAX '15 that's totally worth it and touches on a bit of this.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Is there a specific song you'd like to dissect? I'm better at this when I have a focus, lol.

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Well, specifically I find Shiva's really interesting just because Shiva is so unlike the other primals in that she's not just formed from aether, she has a mortal base (Ysayle). The lyrics make it sound like Ysayle transformed into Shiva for the first time when she was on the absolute brink of death. Makes me wonder if the WoL would ever become a primal as a sort of last-ditch Echo-fuelled attempt to stay alive.

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Originally Posted by Jackald

The lyrics make it sound like Ysayle transformed into Shiva for the first time when she was on the absolute brink of death.

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I went back and forth on that part a few times.

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Originally Posted by Ysayle

Aye, 'twas in the time following the Calamity. My family was dead, my home was gone, and I had fled from the bitter cold into these lands.

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Originally Posted by Ysayle

But even now, I cannot let go of my dream—my dream of a tomorrow in which no child need freeze alone in the snow.

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These lines made me feel like the "She" in the beginning might not be strictly Shiva. It rarely makes its way into the background materials, but the primal form of Shiva (which is fused with Ysayle via the Echo) is based on a combination of two images Ysayle held dear - the holy Saint Shiva (who strove for peace) and Halone (the goddess of war). She reflects Ysayles desire to bring about the end of the war, but through brutal justice upon those at fault, who lead their people blindly into it on false beliefs.

So when we see in the song phrases like Staring at death ... but She won't have me and we all learn to fight the Reaper; Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her, I believe that we might be seeing lines that reflect Halone's influence. That just makes the most sense to me: I'm staring at death, but the Goddess won't have me. We all learn to wage our wars, and if I cannot defeat Ishgard's beliefs, I will become the Fury. (Also Frozen references. Because Koji Fox is a mischievous voidsent.)

I interpret it like so...

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Staring at death, I take a breath, there's nothing left.
Now close my eyes, for one last time, and say goodbye.
Lying naked while the snow falls all around me;
Drifting closer to the edge but She won't have me!
Wake up in sweat, full of regret, try to forget.
These memories, lurking beneath, lost in a dream...

After the Calamity, she was left without parents or a home, food or shelter, starving in the snow. She eventually makes it out of Coerthas and into the Dravanian Forelands, but because she doesn't know the safe paths through the Chocobo Forest, ends up between Hraesvelgr and his dinner. Already weak and weary, when the Echo resonates with the Great Wyrm, she has a powerful vision of a great truth and passes out in the wood.

Unchosen paths, a broken past, forespoken wrath.
The pain won't cease, I'll find no peace, no sweet release.
Fragile creatures, we are taught to fear the Reaper;
Ever running, we are dead before we meet Her!
These voices telling me let it go! (Let it all go!)
I try and try but I can't say no! (Try and say no!)
This endless nightmare has just begun! (Nowhere to run!)
My heart is dragging me down into oblivion!

As time goes on, the visions haunt and embitter her. Chosen by Hydaelyn, gifted with the Echo, shown these memories, she believes all of this happened for a purpose. She twists Hraesvelgr's memories of Shiva into support for this, furthering a selfish desire to have companionship and meaning. She looks back on the Dragonsong War and all of the lives it has consumed - how a buried lie has forsaken countless lives into a situation they can't escape from, onto a path they can't choose to not walk (and to their deaths). She spends the next few years giving into this rage - she starts giving sermons of her own, inspiring those forsaken by gods and men to be the instruments of their own salvation. The truth spreads (well, pieces of it...), and hope of redemption and righteous vengeance grows amongst her flock.

The endless lies, I've cast aside, locked them in ice.
Steeled is my soul, my blood grown cold, I've gained control.
Fearless creatures, we all learn to fight the Reaper;
Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her!
These voices screaming to let it go! (Never let go!)
This time I'm screaming back no no no! (Go on say no!)
My mind's made up, yeah my fear is gone! (Where have you gone?)
Open my eyes now here I come, oblivion!

By the time we come upon her, the "final verse" is being sung. She's embraced this path and hardened her spirit. With the knowledge of summoning, she calls "the soul of Saint Shiva" into herself, and is only emboldened by what she perceives as the soul's acquiescence to use her vessel as its own. With Shiva as her companion, she fuses her image with Halone, the Fury, and though it makes her a murderer and sinner and will probably kill her in the end, prepares to put that rage to righteous use...

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But that's just how I've interpreted it thus far; maybe I'll find something better and change it.

Maybe one of you can point out something better, already!

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

She eventually makes it out of Coerthas and into the Dravanian Forelands, but because she doesn't know the safe paths through the Chocobo Forest, ends up between Hraesvelgr and his dinner. Already weak and weary, when the Echo resonates with the Great Wyrm, she has a powerful vision of a great truth and passes out in the wood.

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I think that part's the most tenuous, since the first time Ysayle met Hraesvelgr she seemed to be enraptured by the idea of actually being a reincarnation of Shiva, and I don't think Hraesvelgr really left Sohm Al much. I think it's much simpler to assume she just struggled to survive on her own as a lonely child in the harsh dravanian landscape, especially when she alludes to "a future where no child is alone and freezing in the winter"; I believe she speaks from personal experience, and the lyrics to Oblivion alluding to "Lying naked while the snow falls around me" would back that up.

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Originally Posted by Jackald

I think that part's the most tenuous, since the first time Ysayle met Hraesvelgr she seemed to be enraptured by the idea of actually being a reincarnation of Shiva, and I don't think Hraesvelgr really left Sohm Al much.

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I can see where this would sound really weird if the assumption was that I was bridging gaps myself, lol.

Here's the full citation:

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Originally Posted by Ysayle

Aye, 'twas in the time following the Calamity. My family was dead, my home was gone, and I had fled from the bitter cold into these lands. I knew not the paths of the forest then, and wandered out from under the protection of its boughs. That was when I chanced upon Hraesvelgr. He had descended from his mountain lair to hunt for food. My exhausted mind could not contend with the sight of the majestic wyrm─nor the vision of the past his presence visited upon me. Thankfully, Marcechamp found my unconscious form at the edge of the trees, and nursed me back to health. And in Tailfeather I remained for some time.

Worse than Dragons

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Originally Posted by Tales From the Dragonsong War

She had sought refuge from the snows in the Dravanian forelands, and while wandering those unfamiliar fields had been chanced upon by the great wyrm Hraesvelgr, descended from the heavens to hunt. <...> Through his memories she had glimpsed the truth behind a thousand-year lie. <...> And so, after years of hushed half-heresies, of coded missives and midnight gatherings, she had gained a flock.

The Dreamer and the Dream

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And the "Shiva Reborn" bit, just for the sake of completeness.

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Originally Posted by Ysayle / Hraesvelgr

Ysayle
I have summoned Shiva's soul from the beyond, and offered myself as her vessel! She has made her heart known to me!

Hraesvelgr
Foolish girl. Thinkest thou my beloved's spirit hath descended from the heavens!?
That the secrets of her heart are thine to know!?

Ysayle
I have surrendered mine to her! Do you not see, my love? I am Shiva reborn!

Hraesvelgr
Gullible fool... The Light but illuminated the past for thee, it did not grant thee omniscience.
The spirit thou hast summoned belongeth not to Shiva─'tis but a shade conjured by thine own fancy.

Heart of Ice

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Originally Posted by Jackald

<...> when she alludes to "a future where no child is alone and freezing in the winter"; I believe she speaks from personal experience, and the lyrics to Oblivion alluding to "Lying naked while the snow falls around me" would back that up.

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I think this is still true, though.