AST : use of Spear

Hi,
just a little question :
when is the right timing to use Spear card ?
must I use it BEFORE the use of the ablility i want to reduce CD, or can i use it even if the ability has just been used to apply its effect ?
Is the cooldown reduction dependant on the "when" the ability is used or can i throw it whenever i want ?
For instance, if i want to help my fellow MCH, must i throw it before he uses wildfire (to reduce its cooldown once triggered), or can I throw it after he uses wildfire, and apply CD reduction afterwards ?

I am not sure to be quite clear... sorry (i'm french :o)
thanks for your answers, anyway ;-)

Spear only affects skills used after it is put on.

And i wouldnt suggest doing that to a MCH, it will mess up all of his CD alignment.

That and the fact it is a before-the-fact use thing make spear kind of hard to use in almost any situation. I usually just redraw if i get it

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Originally Posted by Zari

And i wouldnt suggest doing that to a MCH, it will mess up all of his CD alignment.

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It's fine on MCH, the cooldowns that matter get used with Wildfire off-cooldown. First days of A5S Hummel dps check with a spear, I was able to get BfB up again sooner for last burst and help get the close kill.

Generally, I tend to use spear just as the tank pulls or a bit before, so that everyone can use their cooldowns after it has been used. If I draw spear in the middle of the fight, I'll usually redraw/royal road it, unless I'm using voice communications and can coordinate with my dps who are about to use cooldowns.

ok, thanks everyone, it's clearer now ;-)

Mainly use it for yourself or smn, on yourself it equals the same as a manacard in combination with aether.2nd picks are tanks and ninja. If you ever want to have the most value, its in the opener with aoe spread, but even that is questionable since it changes all cds ppl are used to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zari

Spear only affects skills used after it is put on.

And i wouldnt suggest doing that to a MCH, it will mess up all of his CD alignment.

That and the fact it is a before-the-fact use thing make spear kind of hard to use in almost any situation. I usually just redraw if i get it

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I always wonder how you can "mess up" CD alignment. Either it's good that CD x, y, z is back up faster and you can use it again sooner or... it just doesn't matter... you just have to delay it for 5-10s back to it's original place? If you're used to activate a CD like Internal Release the 2nd time @ about 1:10 min in a fight... you can still do that, even if Internal Release is back up from CD @ 0:55. You just have to not use it sooner.

I can understand if arrow messes up your rotation (tp/mp ticks, having to use other rotation to not apply still running DoTs/debuffs again, etc.), but spear?

I mean... "Oh no, my Raging Strikes, Atherflow, Enochian, Vengeance, Internal Release, Swiftcast, [...] is back from CD sooner than I expected, I'm gonna eff up my rotation now!", or what?

If I'm running with my FC tank, there's situations I'll give it to him so I can stay in cleric longer. For the most part I just use it on myself though, especially for LA.

The best part of AST is its CDs, might as well get them back sooner.

Some important notes about Spear:
A) It only effects abilities that are used while under it
B) It only effects abilities that are oGCD

What I generally use Spear on (in no particular order):
-Generally, Royal Road
-Myself before I use Luminiferous Aether
-WHM before they use Shroud of Saints
-SCH and SMN before they use Aetherflow
-BRDs, NINs, and MCHs because they are more oGCD heavy
-Physical DPS before they use Invigorate
-Tanks before they have to use their defensive cooldowns
-Maybe AoE Spear on the party, pre-pull

Spear can sometimes be hard optimally outside of a pull, on the other hand once you know some instances well enough, even playing as a tank/dps you'll find where there are "hot" points to know where cooldowns will start to be popping. Like back in Thordan EX for the double knights (plus since you were not supposed to use dps cooldowns for the center knight so they would be up for the duo). Other times you just want to use it now so you can get a better Draw.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

I can understand if arrow messes up your rotation (tp/mp ticks, having to use other rotation to not apply still running DoTs/debuffs again, etc.), but spear?

I mean... "Oh no, my Raging Strikes, Atherflow, Enochian, Vengeance, Internal Release, Swiftcast, [...] is back from CD sooner than I expected, I'm gonna eff up my rotation now!", or what?

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It doesn't mess up anything rotation wise for MCH. You are supposed to line-up Blood for Blood, Raging Strikes, and Hawks Eye for Wildfire. (Every other rotation will be a "Mildfire" with just BfB/Hawks until Raging is off CD again). If these cooldowns come back a few seconds earlier it's not going to matter all that much. But if you are only doing dungeon trash, by all means having those up sooner for just AoE blow-up support is great. Spear helping oGCDs like getting Bullets back sooner helps a bit for procs. No real downsides.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

snip

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I'm kind of wondering the same thing to be honest. I've read on here more than a few times that Spear screws with rotations, but I can't really figure out why or how, probably because I don't DPS much. Sure, I can see how it may be less useful than the other cards due to the way it works, but how does its effect negatively impact a rotation? On my NIN, for example, I know my opener/rotation like the back of my hand and tend to focus on other things during that time. If I get a Spear, it...often does nothing for me; it shortens CDs sure, but outside of raiding, I just autopilot my opener, and everything after that is a priority system. I just don't see how having some shorter CDs would throw off a rotation.

Pre pull ~5s pre pull is the perfect time for an aoe spear. This helps all the pre pull buffing jobs and it's long enough for all other CDs in the party as well. After that someone posted a good priority as well.

There are some fixed rotation that cannot make use of it or will change too much, the longer the fight goes, the worse it gets.
Blm for example will not benefit from a shorter cd of enochain, since he will use it whole cycle before refreshing.
Drg blood of the dragon normally allows for 3 geigoskul or however you write it, but with spear they change their normally static rotation that most of the drgs wont be able to fully utilize it.

The worst thing about spear is that you need to fill in at least 1 or more cds compared to a run without as well as consider burstphases, to make it truly effective, which makes it useless in short fights are dungeons where you get no benefit or arent able to utilize those extra seconds, on top of needing extreme raidawareness. To keep it short, yourself/smn, redraw/convert and if cant nin tank yolo.