My apologies, just one last question in regards to the tanks.

Hello, I greatly apologize for being such a bother on the boards but I have one last question that (well it's less of a question and more of a request on advice) has to do with the 3 tanks in general. Currently, I have 55 Drk, 42 Pld, and 16 Mrd. Honestly I don't really see myself ever doing Mrd/War since I'm a bigger fan of swords and I'd rather not level up yet another class from such a low level.

Logic dictates that I should just level Drk to 60 and use it, but I can't help but have a nagging feeling that if I want to be a proper tank, I should go Pld. I just want to be a tank that can best help a group as a whole and could even eventually get into non savage raiding once I get things sorted out. So I wanna ask those that have much better experiences than I do, of Drk and Pld, which would be the most beneficial to a group in non-savage levels of content?

DRK is by far the better tank for casual content along with WAR. PLD is absolutely terrible for any dungeon or AoE situation since Flash doesn't do damage. All tanks are proper tanks. DRK is in no way less of a tank than PLD is.

That would be DRK in terms of how you phrased your question. PLD is a better pick for learning parties maybe since it's support utility allows it to save people from their own mistakes (but a good healer will be able to as well). But DPS is the name of the game now-a-days when it comes to end game content and with that, DRK is a better choice by the numbers simply put. WAR even more so, but you've already decided against that route.

PLD is simple in terms of end game. You'll often find you are automatically placed as MT simply because of being one. Most of the time, this isn't a big deal as MT usually actually dodges less. But it's actually a bit more of a hassle as you NEED to know the mechanics as you'll likely be the reason for wiping a party otherwise. Now, being a DRK doesn't mean you won't be MT'ing by any means. Just that PLD kinda gets stuck with it 90% of the time (so just a heads up).

If you are looking for a more fun and interactive time, go DRK. If you would rather have a simplistic rotation that you don't really have to think about so you can focus more on watching mechanics and your surroundings, go PLD.

Also, you can level both eventually. I leveled my PLD originally, then got my WAR up a few months later. I love doing both. Still working on DRK and the few times I've played it, it's been fun. But different. So choose one and try another later after you've gotten the hang of things ^^

Oh I do plan to eventually level all the tanks since it would be the best thing to do, I'm just wanting to get one at least to max and geared up so I can start doing stuff and get into the real meat of tanking so I can see how I do at it in general before I end up investing even more to tanking in general and leveling up Pld and eventually War. Would War really be a better choice than Drk? I mean, if it would provide far better overall usefulness, I could force myself to level it up and try to find an ax that I could enjoy seeing for long periods of time.

Its not that WAR provide more usefulness, it is just a bit better in the terms that it can do absolutely everything well, but the other two are still great in their own ways. Think of WAR as more the all-rounder

WAR has great aoe for dungeons, a good WAR can MT beautifully, and they have great damage and utility as OT.

DRK has amazing aoe and enmity for dungeons, it is great as MT (especially when the boss has magic damage) while also having possibly the highest MT dps, and does good damage as OT but lacks much OT utility.

PLD doesn't have great aoe for dungeons but can keep enmity fine, is a very good MT for physical bosses, and has more utility as OT than DRK but less damage.

To be honest I would go with either WAR or DRK first then the other one as your second tank

Alrighty, I'll stick with Drk since it's closest to 60 and go from there. I greatly thank you all for the responses and it has greatly help to set me at ease and be less indecisive at least until I get all 3 tanks to 60 lol.

PLD is slower but can do more for the party when things go sideways, however in most instances where a PLD is "helping" he's actually just further slowing things down. Unless you have a solid grasp on the other roles, I'd stick to DRK to best benefit your party

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Originally Posted by GeekMatt

PLD is slower but can do more for the party when things go sideways

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I love being the PLD that prevents a wipe in the Expert roulette when healer buys it and the boss still has like 40% life left. CDs and Clemency FTW. Outside of this situation, ya, WAR is better all around.

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

PLD is absolutely terrible for any dungeon or AoE situation since Flash doesn't do damage.

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An invincible PLD spamming Flash with a healer spamming Holy/Gravity will out damage a DRK/WAR spamming AoE moves with a healer spamming Cure.

A good DRK/WAR can be an exception, but even a terrible PLD is still easier to heal than a mid tier DRK/WAR.

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Originally Posted by Renryuu

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WARRIOR

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Originally Posted by Rongway

An invincible PLD spamming Flash with a healer spamming Holy/Gravity will out damage a DRK/WAR spamming AoE moves with a healer spamming Cure.

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I challenge your idea with a DRK in Living Dead spamming AoE damage with no tank stance, with WHM spamming Holy and topping DRK off with a Benediction at the end of Walking Dead. Also, do not underestimate WAR's AoE burst even if the healer had to heal them a little more, it's insane and definitely on par with WHM Holy spam. Both cases also come with a shorter cooldown than Hallowed Ground. PLD is still the worst tank for dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

I challenge your idea with a DRK in Living Dead spamming AoE damage with no tank stance, with WHM spamming Holy and topping DRK off with a Benediction at the end of Walking Dead. Also, do not underestimate WAR's AoE burst even if the healer had to heal them a little more, it's insane and definitely on par with WHM Holy spam. Both cases also come with a shorter cooldown than Hallowed Ground. PLD is still the worst tank for dungeons.

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PLD doesn't need Hallowed Ground to be sitting at near-full HP for the entirety of a ginormous pull. An AST can put up regens on a PLD and then cast nothing but Gravity til the end of the fight, and still have the resources to do it again on the next pull. Any non-PLD tanks for whom that can also be said are outliers and certainly not the norm.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

PLD doesn't need Hallowed Ground to be sitting at near-full HP for the entirety of a ginormous pull. An AST can put up regens on a PLD and then cast nothing but Gravity til the end of the fight, and still have the resources to do it again on the next pull. Any non-PLD tanks for whom that can also be said are outliers and certainly not the norm.

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Wrong, PLD's cooldowns aren't any better suited to tanking big packs than WAR/DRK. Those two should be easier to heal on almost every pull because they can get high self healing from their aoe damage and they have cooldowns that are at least as good as PLD's.

don't force youself, don't think in utility or DPS, just play all 3 tanks and choose the one how by gameplay and stethetic fits with you, the most important is have fun, you work much better whit a job you love it, so if you like paladin or dark night choose the one how you have more fun, but dont worry to much bcs tanks share gear excep weapon so whit time you can play all when you want.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

An invincible PLD spamming Flash with a healer spamming Holy/Gravity will out damage a DRK/WAR spamming AoE moves with a healer spamming Cure.

A good DRK/WAR can be an exception, but even a terrible PLD is still easier to heal than a mid tier DRK/WAR.

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Someone doesn't know how to play a "mid tier" DRK/WAR.

To the OP. As I said in your other post. As far as cool downs go, PLD and DRK play just about the same when it comes to their standard cool downs at the start, thus playing PLD isn't going to 100% teach you how to tank. DRK is probably about to get a bit harder for you and as you gain new skills, I'd slow down the leveling and get use to your oGCD's and mixing your defensive cool downs together a bit or the damage you take will more than likely go up.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

PLD doesn't need Hallowed Ground to be sitting at near-full HP for the entirety of a ginormous pull. An AST can put up regens on a PLD and then cast nothing but Gravity til the end of the fight, and still have the resources to do it again on the next pull. Any non-PLD tanks for whom that can also be said are outliers and certainly not the norm.

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Yea, are you talking about doing copperbell or something? The new dungeons mobs pack a decent punch even without grabbing huge pulls. Yes, a good healer can keep a good tank up without issues, but PLD's aren't THAT invincible (i would know, I main one). I've tanked the ground plenty of times due to lack of heals and sometimes, trusting my healer too much ("yea yea, don't worry i'm just going to get the 10% buff, i'll bene you in time for sure!" *dead*)

But I've also played WAR and by no means do I feel like I'm better off as a PLD doing big pulls. Infact, I usually sustain MORE damage because the mobs die more slowly. Best I can do is fight or flight, bloodbath, circle of scorn. And a holy spamming WHM has a downfall too. If the other 2 DPS are derps that can't help AoE, the WHM is OOM and you're low hp with no CD's and probably long out of mana (riot blade and sheltron all day). Could Clemency as well, but that takes up 2/5 of your mana, which means after 2, good luck flashing to hold aggro.

I've had plenty of good WHM's holy spam big pulls while I'm my WAR and it goes beautifully. Usually much better than big pulls with my PLD. A good PLD will make big pulls even as a PLD go well, yes. But a good WAR or DRK will too. And they'll kill the mob faster doing it.

If you don't plan on going into any form of savage then it really doesn't matter which tank you go, just pick what you like best. Even in extreme primals as long as you have all your cross class abilities any of the tanks can perform well. Sure even in primals some tanks may handle situations better than others but they can still all clear content equally.

Just poking a head in here, you all kind of glanced over a point based on the leveled classes, too... Lack of Mercy Stroke is not a huge punch, but 26 MRD is still very handy to have, it is oGCD and has a healing effect on it, so definately worth at LEAST getting 26 MRD. As far as the balance of gameplay goes... Play what you find fun, not what the world dictates your choices should be. All three have their moments they shine. Or just do what i do and main all 3 tanks... They share gear aside from weapons currently, after all. I am no raider so none of the issue of "BiS different for all 3, L2Tank, Scrub", just do what is fun to you, and what you find interesting. As someone who has played all 3, they all definately have their individual strengths and weaknesses, but judging a choice based on just conjecture is not worth your time.

Well I find Dark Knight to be incredible amounts of fun and honestly Drk is the whole reason I now want to tank because I enjoy the class immensely and it had become a sort of security blanket for me to get into tanking and get me comfortable with the idea of being a tank instead of the dps I always default to in MMOs. I love frenetic style of it's rotations along with the use of a giant sword and always loved the concept of being a wielder of dark elemental (or dark themed) abilities as a force of good instead of the stereotypical Dark = Evil and Light = Good.

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Originally Posted by Seku

Someone doesn't know how to play a "mid tier" DRK/WAR.

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I know how to play a fabulous AST, and while Launched's points about what should be are true on paper, they are at least not true in execution on Primal's DF. In DR:Expert and DR:60, for 9/10 PLDs trash pulls are three GCDs of buffs going up and then Gravity spam til everything's dead, while I can only say that for at most 1/10 of the DRKs and WARs I've been paired with.

In this case I'm not making any claims about potency math and theory, nor am I saying that WAR and DRK played to their potential are anything but amazing. I'm saying that in practice, as AST, on Primal, in DF, when paired with random DRKs/WARs, there be more healing and far less gravitying than there would be on the same sized pulls with a PLD.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

...I'm saying that in practice, as AST, on Primal, in DF...

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I only ever see about 1 in 30 people who can actually play the game and their class at any decent level in DF. Maybe we should base our arguments on actual class mechanics instead of anecdotal evidence with low-skill, low-incentivized players? Otherwise we can just conclude no healer class is capable of DPS, especially AST, and all DPS classes are terrible because a decent WAR/DRK will out damage them in DF. Nothing to do with math of course, but who cares about theory when the reality obviously dictates otherwise.

You could have a point about PLD being easier to play, but that's only really true when talking about the offensive aspects of the class regarding their rotation. Defensively, all tanks just pop cooldowns and basically spam one ability for some AoE hate. There are valid good points to PLD, but running dungeons is not one of them. They're good for high physical damage bosses due to STR debuff and shield mitigation, frequent single-hit tank busters due to Sheltron, and cheesing hard mechanics with Hallowed Ground, hands down the best tank ultimate.

In all seriousness, you really should level both. Even if your end goal is not to get into savage level raiding or extreme level trials, having an alternative tank is a good idea for a few of reasons.

Firstly, Tanks go in and out of style frequently because SE is ... "special" and seemingly has no idea how to find an adequate balance between the three tanks. War is the only one that is universally useful in all content and in all positions (MT/OT). Pld and Drk, on the other hand, can vary dramatically in utility depending on the circumstances. Drk's magic defense and superior MT dps is almost always an asset, but Pld's occasionally get the benefit of cheesing certain mechanics using Cover or Hallowed Ground, for example. Depending on the mechs of the fight, you might find one to be more suitable to specific dungeons or fights than another.

The second thing to consider is the Raid composition itself. This doesn't matter as much in DF, but Limit Break restrictions make having duplicates of any job in the party a bad idea, so you may find yourself in a position where you have to switch. If you ever do end up running Savage/Extreme level content, then chances are you'll be finding yourself a static party or you'll be slumming it in the PF. In either situation, you'll look more attractive to potential parties if you have an alternative tank to swap to. Depending on the actual composition of the party, they may also have a preference to specific tanks. For example, Delirium Blade is redundant when you have a Mnk in the party. Ninja's love War's, because their slashing debuff increases their dps output. etc. Even healers will often have a style of tank which they prefer to heal over the others. Having options is the best way to help your party, even if you preform best on one specific tank.

Another thing to consider is Min/Maxing your potential role. A lot of raid groups will start their MT off as a Pld while learning the fight. They do this because Pld has the easiest CD management out of all the tanks, so it requires the least amount of attention to use well. You often have an easier time focusing on learning the mechs as Pld. Healers, also, often prefer this style of learning, as there are (potentially) less dramatic fluctuations in a Pld's Hp bar, because their mitigation is mostly passive (with the exception of Clemency) rather than dependent on active self-healing. That said, once the party gets comfortable with the fight, a lot of groups prefer to swap the Pld out for another role that is better suited to the fight. This isn't just a Savage/Extreme level concept, either. I've played Pld the longest out of all of the tanks in this game, and I still prefer learning every new trial that comes out on that job because it's the one I'm most comfortable with. That said, once I've learned the mechs, I often prefer to switch to Drk to make things more interesting, max my potential, or just enjoy a change of pace. That by itself is more than enough reason to level more than one tank, because, even if you never step foot in Extreme or Savage level content, sometimes running the same tank over and over can just get boring. Having a favorite flavor is nice, but that doesn't mean you want it ALL the time.

These are just a few things to consider, though. In the end, my recommendation is to max out whatever job you're most comfortable using and enjoy playing the most.

Ultimately it's good to level up all the tanks to the point that you have all of the cross class skills unlocked for any of them. Which tank you main really depends on your preferred play style. PLD is the basic damage mitigation focused tank, WAR is a high HP, stance dancing class that relies on strategic use of burst damage and self heals to provide damage mitigation, and finally DRK is something of a middle ground focusing on consistent life drain and a variety of damage mitigation skills to pull through. Choose the one that fits you best.