Best tank to pair with monk?

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07-07-2016, 05:05 AM
Lokiros

Best tank to pair with monk?

Hey I finally got my friend back in the game and he's set on being a monk. I have drk to 60 but if it would be better I don't mind getting the others to 60. I just figure drk isn't the best because the int debuffs clash. Thanks for any help!
07-07-2016, 06:37 AM
Jpec07

I'm going to go ahead and say WAR, in most pieces of content. DRK loses out because of the overlapping debuff, and while PLD can soak more damage, neither really benefits from the other (the same can be said of WAR, but WAR at least will have an easier time topping the massive amounts of enmity that a well-geared MNK can put out, and also provides the slashing debuff, so you don't have to bring NIN, and can bring DRG instead to help out your BRD/MCH).

Now, if PLD started dealing blunt damage with their shield, we might have a different story.
07-07-2016, 07:24 AM
Lokiros

That's what I was thinking too, my only reservation is with pally and monk then you have both the debuffs for int and str
07-07-2016, 07:27 AM
Deathgiver

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lokiros

That's what I was thinking too, my only reservation is with pally and monk then you have both the debuffs for int and str

The war debuff does both physical and magical damage so it's better than either, plus the magic damage reduction stacks with the int down. That being said, you can really stick with whatever tank you like best. The world first clear on the current savage content was done with a drk and mnk in party. The Int down debuff is becoming less and less relevant anyways thanks to darkness type damage.
07-07-2016, 07:38 AM
Lokiros

I don't know how I forgot about storms path/eye(the damage down one) I think I'll just level both, it's mainly an excuse to get away from dark lol. Out of curiosity what is darkness type damage, is that new in heavenward? I don't ever remember encountering that in coil
07-07-2016, 10:41 AM
Shurrikhan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathgiver

The war debuff does both physical and magical damage so it's better than either, plus the magic damage reduction stacks with the int down. That being said, you can really stick with whatever tank you like best. The world first clear on the current savage content was done with a drk and mnk in party. The Int down debuff is becoming less and less relevant anyways thanks to darkness type damage.

Darkness type? I would think that a Int debuff would reduce all outgoing spell damage, even if "true damage", as it affects the source stat rather than interacting with the damage type itself. Which is probably why almost every "true damage" (non-mitigatable) attack I can think of has been while the attacker/source isn't targetable (e.g. "Ragnorok" casting the spells in T9, rather than Nael). If that's a non-mitigatable type I could however see Storm's Path becoming useless against it.
07-07-2016, 11:00 AM
MagiusNecros

Monk can go with WAR for the insane Mantra+Convalescence+Defiance healing boost.
07-07-2016, 12:26 PM
Kitfox

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Darkness type? I would think that a Int debuff would reduce all outgoing spell damage, even if "true damage", as it affects the source stat rather than interacting with the damage type itself. Which is probably why almost every "true damage" (non-mitigatable) attack I can think of has been while the attacker/source isn't targetable (e.g. "Ragnorok" casting the spells in T9, rather than Nael). If that's a non-mitigatable type I could however see Storm's Path becoming useless against it.

The Darkness damage found in current Savage Midas is not spell damage, it doesn't count as physical or magical, it is a seperate type. That's why it's not affected by STR and INT debuffs. If there's a source stat, none of the player abilities reduce it. Only universal damage reductions and shields work: Storm's Path, Reprisal, Rampart, Vengeance, and so on. That being said, darkness type attacks are very few compared to all the physical and magical damage so INT and STR debuffs are still extremely valuable to have around.

On topic: MNK is best paired with PLD+WAR setup, in my opinion, for the variety of debuffs they provide. Out of those tanks, WAR is by far the more flexible one if you're likely to run a lot of 4-man dungeons, as PLD is by far the worst tank for those due to the lack of AoE damage. Honestly it doesn't matter much unless you're planning on raiding and want to optimize your party setup, DRK is still very viable in all content and just as good as WAR for dungeons.
07-07-2016, 01:36 PM
Lokiros

Thx for all the advice, I'll probably go warrior since I mained pld in 2.0. So it'll be a nice change of pace
07-07-2016, 04:22 PM
Launched

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Monk can go with WAR for the insane Mantra+Convalescence+Defiance healing boost.

Only if you want to see big numbers. For actual effective healing, PLD receives more eHP per heal than WAR.
07-07-2016, 09:23 PM
Ragology

Quote:

Originally Posted by Launched

Only if you want to see big numbers. For actual effective healing, PLD receives more eHP per heal than WAR.

I've been told that PLD is about 4% easier to heal than a war. I hope this is still true since that's what I've been parroting.
07-08-2016, 12:39 AM
Cabalabob

The answer is WAR, regardless of what your friend plays, your friend could play WAR and the best choice would still be WAR...
07-08-2016, 04:26 AM
Rongway

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Monk can go with WAR for the insane Mantra+Convalescence+Defiance healing boost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Launched

Only if you want to see big numbers. For actual effective healing, PLD receives more eHP per heal than WAR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragology

I've been told that PLD is about 4% easier to heal than a war. I hope this is still true since that's what I've been parroting.

PLD gets -20% (0.8) damage taken with Shield Oath and WAR gets +25% (1.25) max HP with Defiance, and those are inverses of each other (1/0.8 = 1.25, 1/1.25 = 0.8).

WAR gets a 20% (1.20) healing boost with Defiance.

Code:

JOB PLD WAR Max HP 10000 12500 Taking 5000 hit -4000(Sh) -5000(Df) ===== ===== Remaining HP 6000(60%) 7500(60%) JOB PLD WAR Max HP 10000 12500 Receiving 5000 heal 5000 6000(Df) Percent of max 50% 48%

Considering just tank stances, they take the same effective damage but WAR receives about 4% less effective healing.
07-08-2016, 04:39 AM
Launched

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rongway

Considering just tank stances, they take the same effective damage but WAR receives about 4% less effective healing.

Plus the bonus healing on Defiance doesn't apply to abilities like Lustrate, Asylum, Tetra and Essential Dignity.
07-08-2016, 04:46 AM
Deathgiver

Quote:

Originally Posted by Launched

Plus the bonus healing on Defiance doesn't apply to abilities like Lustrate, Asylum, Tetra and Essential Dignity.

On the flip side, hots continue to benefit from the buff when in deliverance, as long as they were applied while in defiance.
07-12-2016, 04:45 PM
Fernosaur

Quote:

Originally Posted by Launched

Only if you want to see big numbers. For actual effective healing, PLD receives more eHP per heal than WAR.

As a SCH main that likes to solo heal all kinds of stuff, I do very much love to see those big numbers. PLD comes second in terms of healing, tho, bc of the traited Convalescence.

By the same measure of SCH solo healing, I effing hate DRK.
07-12-2016, 05:12 PM
Februs

Out of curiosity, wouldn't DV be considered a better pair up for Mantra? Strictly speaking, the shield gained from DV is pretty paltry, but given that it's applied to the entire party (save for the Pld) wouldn't it be a better supplement to a Mnk's Mantra from a party perspective?
07-13-2016, 03:03 AM
Sarcatica

Quote:

Originally Posted by Februs

Out of curiosity, wouldn't DV be considered a better pair up for Mantra? Strictly speaking, the shield gained from DV is pretty paltry, but given that it's applied to the entire party (save for the Pld) wouldn't it be a better supplement to a Mnk's Mantra from a party perspective?

In the best defensive lineup, MNK/PLD combo is great. Close to 100% uptime for Halone and DK for STR and INT down, also DV and Mantra being a huge win. This setup has been discussed before by Elysium for what's worth. For best potential DPS, DRK/DRG/NIN is pretty much locked for overall raid DPS, barring personal epeens, see FFlogs for speed runs.
07-14-2016, 07:28 PM
Rongway

Quote:

Originally Posted by Februs

Out of curiosity, wouldn't DV be considered a better pair up for Mantra? Strictly speaking, the shield gained from DV is pretty paltry, but given that it's applied to the entire party (save for the Pld) wouldn't it be a better supplement to a Mnk's Mantra from a party perspective?

Divine Veil doesn't care how much HP was healed, just that a heal happened. The shield is always 10% of the PLD's max HP.
07-14-2016, 11:36 PM
Cabalabob

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rongway

Divine Veil doesn't care how much HP was healed, just that a heal happened. The shield is always 10% of the PLD's max HP.

Think the point was divine veil and mantra are both anti-raid buster moves. You can have divine veil and mantra'ed succor/Aldo and shrug off even the biggest attack.
07-19-2016, 06:23 PM
Ryahask

I think PLD works most effectively with MNK.

PLD is a far more effective mitigation tank than WAR and between PLD & MNK you have both STR and INT debuffs, have good DPS (As the MNK makes up for the PLD's lack), and have almost every party-wide defensive cool-down not on a Healer.
07-19-2016, 06:45 PM
Sarcatica

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryahask

I think PLD works most effectively with MNK.

PLD is a far more effective mitigation tank than WAR and between PLD & MNK you have both STR and INT debuffs, have good DPS (As the MNK makes up for the PLD's lack), and have almost every party-wide defensive cool-down not on a Healer.

WAR is actually by far the best consistent tank if you just want to lock it in for pure mitigation. It's just that there are so many huge tank busters that PLD/DRK can do easily (aka cheesing) and also sitting in Defiance gimps WAR's DPS by a whole lot. I can guarantee you if the game doesn't call for hard DPS checks, WAR will come on top as the consistent tank.

Elysium mentioned they would have cleared A8S sooner with PLD/MNK setup mainly because of Path/RoH/DV/DK/buffed Mantra + Sch's utility in general. Again, next raid patch you will definitely see way more PLDs in the MT slot just because of progressions.