Hi, I'm a newbie playing a White Mage and there's one issue 'd like to clarify. I know that generally I am expected to DPS whenever I can, but I was wondering whether doing it isn't a "waste of mana" in some cases. I'm talking about long boss fights. DPSs do more damage than me, right? So in a sitution when there's no time limit/enrage mechanics etc, but mana can become an issue, wouldn't it be better to focus solely on healing to keep other ppl alive for longer, and therefore allow the party as a whole to deal more dmg (and hopefuly kill a boss) before I run out of mana and ebcome unable to heal? Wouldn't mana spent on Stone II eventually result in more dmg if it was used on Cure?
DPSing as a healer
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07-01-2016, 11:55 PMNamillDPSing as a healer
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07-02-2016, 12:05 AMMattelot
You are never required to DPS. People can expect it out of you all they want but it's your game. Play how you want. You are always welcome to DPS and I don't think anyone would complain about it unless you're one of the people who do it and let people die which I see more commonly in lower levels. If mana becomes an issue, back off on anything but healing since that is the focus of your job. Don't wait until you're out of mana to use Shroud of Saints which I see more often than not. There are other factors that would not be your fault such as others being under-geared or not using CDs which can cause you mana issues. I can't say those scenarios are too common, at least in my experience.
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07-02-2016, 12:11 AMGarotte14
There are two ways to look at it. 1) You're a healer, and if you keep people alive, then you're doing your job. If you don't feel comfortable dps'ing, then it's not required. 2) You should never be standing there doing nothing. You can start small. Apply your DoTs without cleric stance, then work your way up to switching to cleric and applying DoTs. Then once your comfortable with that you can add Stones in, and Holy.
The Mana thing isn't an issue unless you have a bunch of unnecessary raises. The only "long" fights are in raiding, and you'll have other members that can regenerate your mana. -
07-02-2016, 01:00 AMbounddreamer
If you're playing optimally, you'll be making regular use of the tools that help you replenish your mana - shroud of Saints and assize. Yes, healing the party is your first priority. But adding dps when you can, and if you feel comfortable doing so, helps things go faster and it gives you something to do when otherwise you might just be standing around waiting to cast a heal.
WHM dps is pretty good, especially single target which most bosses tend to be.
Others have already covered pretty good WHM rotations but you start out with a lot of proactive healing, then once the tank and party have those up, you can turn to dealing some damage then switch back after you've thrown dots up and some stone IIIs and be ready to refresh regen and take care of any damage the party took. -
07-02-2016, 01:09 AM_slowpoke_
It really depends on the content you do. In experts, you can keep the party alive for extended amounts of time while at literally zero MP. You have Asylum, Tetra, Bene, Virus, E4E, and even Assize (though Assize should basically never be used to heal in experts, it's too good for AoE damage). In most situations, you can safely spam away your entire MP pool on Holy or your DPS rotation and never worry about anyone dying ever.
In actually challenging content, healer DPS can make a world of a difference and will often actually save you MP in the long run (if you utilize your toolkit fully). Take Nidhogg Extreme as an example. The earlier you can bring him below 80% and thus skip into add phase, the less healing you will have to do on Bellowing Roars and cleaves. The faster you can kill him in the last phase, the less you have to worry about being unable to heal through more (and longer) Ahk Morns. Coordinate with your co-healer (if you have one ;)), know when to expect what heal/shield from them, this will help enormously in reducing overheal and thus conserving MP you can spend on DPS instead. -
07-02-2016, 01:10 AMlulunami
Focus on healing first and conserving MP. Once you understand the encounter better and you and your team play more efficiently, you can find spots where you can help supplement DPS safely. Healer's main role is to still primarily heal as best as possible and minimize healing related wipes as best as you can. WHM is usually in the main healer role so there is not usually another healer to rely on if you make a critical healing mistake.
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07-02-2016, 01:17 AMDarkmoonVael
Learn to heal first then learn where you can fit dps in. You will find lots of down time in healing in trials where you can dps. Being able to judge how far your mana will stretch just comes from experience. In dungeon runs, esp 50+, you will find you can contribute a lot of aoe dps as a healer, making the run far faster. As a WHM your main aoe will also stun mobs, making it so very little healing is needed in a dungeon if you use your aoe dps rotation.
It is commendable that you are already trying to figure out how and where you can dps as a healer. The truely skilled healers in this game can oush out a filthy amount of dps whilst keeping everyone alive. :). -
07-02-2016, 02:19 AMJudge_XeroAny time you DPS you are making a fight shorter regardless if there is an enrage mechanic etc. This results in less healing overall and less room for errors. Also consider that other classes have finite resources the same as a healer, whether it be TP, MP, CD's (specifically Tanking CD's) and the longer a fight goes on the less of those are available. Especially in the case of TP for melee classes because once they run dry their DPS really starts to plummet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Namill
Healers are built to efficiently maintain their MP levels for both a combination of healing and DPS (outside of heavy AOE casting) so your contribution no matter what you are comfortable with is never a waste, or a waste of mana and if you are only able to DPS a little due to the nature of a fight requiring heavy healing, by design a healers most potent skills are also the most MP efficient. -
07-02-2016, 05:41 AMFoxyAreku
You are expected to dps in serious groups in savage content, anyone who says otherwise probably hasn't been in a serious progression before, but in dungeons it won't make or break it, I would like to clarify on this point though-
Healer's DPSing is about equivalent to a DPS class that isn't using cooldowns, which is still quite significant. And there is very few instances where you will be so mana starved where DPSing will effect your MP pool in any significant amount, so don't worry about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Namill
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07-02-2016, 11:06 AMgehrtalert
White Mage stance dancing is fun, especially when you get get good at it. It's what it was made for. Running low on mana is generally just a problem in lower content where people don't have the mana/hp pools like they do in end game stuff. Just be sure to use your Shroud of Saints before it becomes a problem. You can buy Ethers. They might not seem like much but they do help a lot. It's like having an Aetherflow for White Mage. Just don't ever blow your mp on dps when it's going to be needed for heals. Don't dig yourself in a hole because it's harder for a White Mage to dig themselves out of it.
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07-02-2016, 12:45 PMSeoulstar
I'm just going to say this. Do whatever you see fit. If you want to DPS, then DPS. If you do not, then don't worry about it. A healer dps can make a dungeon go by faster..but not by a lot. I just DPS and heal because I'm just used to doing it. Not because others expect me to. Now at some point if you feel as if you want to DPS and heal, then ease your way into it. Start by placing dots, once you get comfortable with that. Start to move on to dancing with cleric stance. Know when to activate it to DPS and when to turn it off so your tank wont end up dying in the process.
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07-02-2016, 09:53 PMwinsockA few things to keep in mind:Quote:
Originally Posted by Namill
* Mana left in your bar at the end of the boss fight is also a waste.
* Your performance w/o dps wont be considered as good or as skillful as your performance with dps.
* "Long Boss Fights" usually occur (or at the very least, occur in part) because of poor party DPS, so the DPS you do provide in this scenario will likely be more valuable than it normally is.
IMO, stopping dps should be the 'last option'.
On a short boss fight, Time efficiency > MP efficiency. Use Cure II over Cure I to limit your time out of cleric stance, only use Aero I over Stone III on a situation specific basis, etc.
In a long boss fight, MP efficiency can be > Time efficiency. Leaning towards more Cure I's/Freecures and using more Aero I's as part of the 'standard' dps rotation is preferable to halting all dps. -
07-02-2016, 10:35 PMmp-please
People seem to forget 2 things.
Healers are casters and casters are meant to be always casting. Ok mp issues make this rule a bit more lenient but if you spend more than 5 seconds without casting you're doing it wrong.
Nobody needs to be at 100% hp at all times.
About people that complain about mp issues.
Stop casting mid pulls, as long you have 0 aggro during a pull you won't enter combat mode so use this to regain mp between pulls.
Stop healing after a fight, natural hp regen is more than enough to top a tank at 50%
Don't use shroud/LA after a fight, use it during the fight. It's even acceptable to use it at 95%+ mp as long you know you wont waste a tick.
Use and abuse HoTs and 0 mp heals, stuff like benediction isn't meant to be used on emergencies.
Don't aoe less than 4 mobs.
Set a rotation, when you start dpsing don't stop unless the life of someone is at risk. Higher the dps, less healing required since mobs die faster.
Ethers and elixirs drop like candy from dungeons, chug 1-2 per run if you feel like your mp is too low.
On another note, this...
...is a huge factor. Party performance will impact how good the healer mp regain is.Quote:
Higher the dps, less healing required since mobs die faster.
Tank doesn't use defensive cooldowns or dps is trash? More healing required, more mp spent and more time you're healing, less you're dpsing so mobs will naturally take more time to die. In average every single gcd a pull stays alive is half a gcd worth of healing. Without considering special conditions such as hallowed or holy stuns, you'll always be required to heal every 5-7.5 seconds on a average sized pull. -
07-02-2016, 10:38 PMAlistaire
Carry ethers with you. Nobody expects that in dungeons, but through several patches they've been buffed significantly in potency and recast. And if you find your dps'ing puts you in danger of running low, pop one and chill for a bit. Think of it like training wheels to managing your mp.
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07-03-2016, 10:34 AMGemina
Your concern might be an issue at your level if you were running the content with other players at a lower item level. Synced players, especially in combination with skill in avoiding unnecessary dmg whilst maximizing their own DPS will bring bosses down before your MP pool becomes an issue.
The performance of a healer is so dependent on his/her teammates. In most situations, DPSing doesn't tax your MP pool, it's poor performances from your teammates that do it. No cooldowns, not avoiding AoE, pulling too heavy, focusing inappropriate targets. These derps from your group will force you to heal and rezz more. Some falls on you too. You are responsible for avoiding unnecessary damage as well so you don't have to heal yourself. These are some of the biggest things I learned being a healer.
If a group welcomed me by telling me I am expected to DPS, I will nod in agreement and then tell them that I expect them to keep their own asses alive. -
07-03-2016, 03:22 PMFernosaur
Also take into consideration that a lot of the bigger fights you'll be doing at lvl 50+ and outside of Light party dungeons will have an enrage timer. This means that if the DPS of the raid doesn't kill the boss before X amount of time, the party will wipe. In those cases, healer DPS can be very valuable.
On top of that, every healer class has a way to manage their MP consumption and regeneration. White Mage has Shroud and Assize, which they can use around 5 to 7 times in a 10 minute fight. If you have a Bard or Machinist, they can aid your MP recovery if you're running too low from raising people, and no one has ever said you're not allowed to use Hi-Elixirs during battle. MP management and DPSing is something you will learn to weave into the skillset of a healer, so don't dwell too much on it, it will come with time and practice. :) -
07-05-2016, 01:22 AMFunkyBunch
I'm level 41 SCH now. I was tired of seeing healers do no DPS, so I started a healer and starting DPSing in the beginning.
The earlier you start DPSing the better a healer you will be.
Right now, I barely have to leave to Cleric Stance to heal and apparently have second to top DPS in my groups.
You will outperform "healz only" if you can stance dance because you will just be better than them as they're over-healing and under DPSing.
And if they get to hard content they will be overwhelmed because they're just worse players and they won't even be able to just heal.
A good DPSing healer makes the difference between a decent dungeon run and an awesome one. Be an awesome healer. Please for the love of all the is /ac Holy -
07-05-2016, 04:01 AMKazumacReminds me of one of my FC mates that ran his sch with me earlier this week. His comment was, I hate playing SCH because it reminds me how lazy most healers I get are.Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyBunch
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07-05-2016, 06:37 AMZadocfish
As a SCH, I have trouble finding time to DPS in some dungeons. The Brayflox's Longstep, for example... I couldn't go into CS even a little bit on that one. The Fairy just couldn't keep up with the damage, and you don't get Leeches until lvl 40...
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07-05-2016, 07:09 AMFunkyBunchOdd, I did that yesterday and had zero problems =/ I popped out of cleric stance one time when we took 6 adds at once; adding an Adlo and Physik to the tank, then went right back to Cleric.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zadocfish
Are you using Selene or Eos? Eos has two heals, Selene has one. Maybe try using Eos if you're having trouble staying in Cleric. -
07-05-2016, 10:20 AMNormalizerIf you are leveling it might be bit harder to find time to dps, especially when you are bit undergeared for content or still learning the job. Should keep trying though. Also, the party also play a big role, if you get a newish tank with slightly lower gear or like to pull a lot, or not used CDs optimally, it will be harder for you to keep them up. Don't be discourage though, and just keep trying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zadocfish
Also, make a macro for embrace spam the tank, and use it early and often. Fairies won't heal until someone under 80% though, so you want to force her to heal the tank sooner and keep healing him. I think it mentioned in "How to train your fairies" thread.
Edit: It's here, actually find it for you cause the thread seems buried somewhere. There are other tip/trick in the thread, however not all macros are good so don't over use them:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Layla-chan
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07-05-2016, 11:09 AMZadocfish
... Is it the "focus target" and /pac "Embrace" <3> <wait.2> part that's important? Or are the echos also important? And, what do the numbers and "wait" mean?
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07-05-2016, 11:55 AMFoxyArekuYour tank might have been undergeared or not using cooldowns or something, I can go in there with Selene and never leave cleric stance the whole dungeon, sans one or two parts on boss fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zadocfish
It's a macro. The whole thing is important, or it won't work as the person who wrote it intended. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Zadocfish
Though I tried it myself and <wait.2> doesn't work since embrace cooldown is 3 seconds, <wait.4> is what you have to do I think. -
07-05-2016, 05:05 PMNormalizer
No <wait.2> is the correct one. The original poster did explain, the gap between the <wait.2> and the embrace cooldown (which is 3) let you do thing like queue up fairies skill while the macro still active, she will do the skill you want her to, then back to continue the embrace macro. Do note that when your fairies embracing you cannot use her skills, if you set it to <wait.3> there will be no room for you to "queue" up other skills which in turn make the macro rather useless (or harmful).
@Zadoc: You should read up or find some quick guide on macro if you do plan on using them, wrong macro can be harmful xD I don't really understand your question though but here is a quick break down nevertheless:
/focustarget set your current target as focus target
/pac .... stands for pet action, it will command your pet do her skill. /pac "Embrace" <t> will tell your fairies to cast Embrace on your current target for example
<t>, <f>, <1>, <2>... are placeholders in macro, they will be translated to the actual target, with <t> is your current target, <f> is your current focus target, <1> to <8> is the party member at position 1 to 8 on party list, with how it is shorted <1> will be you, <2> and <3> normally your 2 tanks. With that in mind, a /pac "Embrace" <1> will cast embrace on yourself for example. There is also <mo> for mouseover and <tt>for target's target.
<wait.N> with N is a whole number 1, 2, 3, .... let the macro wait N seconds before going to the next like.
/echo outputs something only you can see. -
07-05-2016, 09:15 PMZadocfish
Oh, that's a very simple explanation! Alright, with that I think I can make my own Embrace spam Macro. I play on PS3, so I can't just copy and paste...
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07-05-2016, 09:52 PMRawrz
/pac embrace <2>
Use your keyboard (I hope you have one. They work on PS3 and really help chat, even if playing with controller) repeat the line 14 more times. I use the macro icon for the 1st blue shield. You can select this from a list if you click on your blank "M" icon next to the title of the macro.
For the 2nd tank slot
/pac embrace <3>
Repeat again. I used the 2nd blue shield.
This commands her to heal the target once, while queuing her to do so. All you have to do is press it during cast bar times. It works very well on an extended hotbar. After you're used to it, it'll become part of your DPS. The more and earlier she heals, the longer you can cleric stance, and the more likely shell proc the SS buff. -
07-06-2016, 09:49 AMFoxyArekuReally? Because when I did it every other embrace just didn't go off, and I'd get an error message to pop up which was quite annoying (though I think I can turn error messages off I've never had to).Quote:
Originally Posted by Normalizer
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07-06-2016, 10:20 AMNormalizer
I don't know, i get no error from those macro. I will test it again and see, but the macro haven't failed me before though.
Edit: Ok after testing it again with wait.2, .3 and .4 i would say .4 works too i think, it has no pop up error either. strangely though since i remember i had to use .2 before. Maybe they made some change about macro, embrace and fairies queue somewhere along the line :D I will update the other post too.
A note though, with .4 you probably don't want to have use full 14 lines of the macro. i think best is to limit it to only 4-5 times (16-20 sec duration of embrace spam). -
07-06-2016, 10:44 AMRongwayThat particular macro is only supposed to fire every other embrace.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyAreku
Timeline, beginning from macro use:- Fairy begins casting Embrace.
- -
- Macro errors--fairy is still casting.
- Fairy finishes casting -- you may manually fire a fairy ability here.
- Fairy begins casting Embrace.
- -
- Macro errors--fairy is still casting.
- Fairy finishes casting -- you may manually fire a fairy ability here.
- Fairy begins casting Embrace.
So really, you could just set the waits to 4s and get twice as many autoembraces out of it, but one thing that the 2s wait version gives you is the ability for it to pick up sooner if you do manually insert an ability.
- Fairy begins casting Embrace.
- -
- Macro errors--fairy is still casting Embrace.
- Fairy finishes casting Embrace. You may manually fire a fairy ability here.
- Fairy begins casting Embrace.
- -
- Macro errors--fairy is still casting Embrace.
- Fairy finishes casting Embrace. You manually fire Whispering Dawn.
- Macro errors--fairy is still casting Whispering Dawn
- Fairy finishes casting Whispering Dawn
- Fairy begins casting Embrace.
If you use 4s waits instead, the next Embrace will be at 13 instead of 11. -
07-06-2016, 10:55 AMNormalizer
Thanks for the explanation Rongway, i used that a lot but never really saw that reason behind the use of .2. I thought that was because of something else LOL.
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07-06-2016, 11:40 AMFoxyAreku
Thanks for the explanation, makes sense. I'll just have to turn off error messages if I use it.
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07-09-2016, 01:26 PMFinaSel
I DPS as a healer as much as possible and I never run out of mana unless I need to raise people.
After level 50, you will get so many useful skills to heal people without using mana and also replenish your mana.
This method is for Level 60 WHM:
If you use Shroud of Saints and Asize (+level 50 skill) whenever they are off cooldown you will probably never run out of mana.
In fact, I will usually open with DPS.
Presence of Mind --> Aero III / II (depending on number of mobs) --> Aero I --> Fluid Aura (if a boss) --> Shroud of Saints --> Stone III spam OR Holy spam until Presence of Mind is over. --> Asize (depending on MP and remaining mobs)
The reason for Presense of Mind first is that Aero III has a long cast time. Presence of Mind reduces this significantly. Because Aero I is instant, but has a global cooldown, there is an empty space there. So I use Fluid Aura (instant cast, no global cooldown) and Shroud of Saints (same).
By this time, the global cooldown has just ended, so it's time to spam another skill.
Switch out of cleric stance.
Divine Seal --> Regen --> Tetragrammaton --> Cure (II) if necessary
I've just added a lot of DPS, (should) still have full MP, and the tank should be topped off.
If Holy spamming, I will add an Asize at the end to help regen the lost MP. Asize also deals quite a lot of damage.
Switch back to cleric stance and continue DPS.
Due to Divine seal's cooldown, I will use the AoE heal bubble (forget the name) every other pull + Regen.
When Divine Seal is up, I use that plus Regen.
At boss fights, I generally use Divine Seal + Medica II and Regen on tank.
I rarely find myself using Cure or Cure II in normal dungeons or trials unless the tank is a beginner or undergeared.
If I see myself running low on mana I will use a potion, but I think I've only had to do that in Weeping City.
I think 80% of my spell usage is doing DPS on both bosses and trash. Regen and Medica II and the AoE bubble, will replenish so much Hp that there should be so much free time to DPS.
It is more difficult to DPS before 50, but I still just do basically Stone II spam until tank is below 50% --> off Cleric Stance --> Divine Seal --> Regen --> Cure (II) --> On CS --> Stone II spam.
If more than 3 mobs, Holy spam. -
07-09-2016, 11:08 PMDeadRiser
It's really not hard to DPS as a healer unless you or the tank is undergeared.
AST/WHM - keep the regens up. SCH - your fairy.
Most of the time in the dungeons, I have half MP from healing and dpsing the entire time. It really does make the dungeon go faster and the rest of the party loves it. -
07-14-2016, 09:22 AMRiisWolf
Gordias Savage. Where its DPS heavy meta changed the idea of a competent healer from one able to effortlessly keep the party alive to being a 24/7 DPS even if they don't do the DPS part right. I find more and more healers argue that healing comes second, and it doesn't help players who do only heal while doing a superb job at it get noticed or commended. The most frustrating thing is that after all of that, we don't have any more tanks or DPS anymore competent at their damage dealing part than before, and once again, even though fights like A2S is a thing, AoEs are still hard pressed. Even tons of WHMs don't bother with holy (over stone 3 vs multiple enemies) despite running places countless of times.
Heals always come first. Fighting is purely supplementary. This isn't WoW where they actually encourage combat healers by boosting your healing with certain attacks. Cleric stance is just there to make doing things by yourself, such as defending yourself, a lot less dreadful. As if the fact that CS is disabled in PvP, all heavensward healing gear having no accuracy, and mechanics that has no enemy to attack or forces you to save yourself wasn't any indication enough about what's intended and what's not. -
07-14-2016, 09:47 AMFeliciaTheSecond
Lot of good info in this thread for newbies. Great to see! Even though most of what I will say has been said before I guess I'll just serve to emphasize the more important points.
Firstly healer DPS is NOT insignificant. I will regularly outdps bad dps and actual good dps I still do about 70-80% (its on the higher and of the spectrum if I have a good bard or machinist) of the damage they do over the course of a 4 man dungeon. This is almost like having a third dps.
If you're new to healing do start small. Try to do your rotation without cleric stance and start using it once you feel comfortable.
Use Assize/Shroud as soon as possible. Basically if you have the space to absorb the regen (or will be in combat longer than the duration in Shroud's case) use it. That person that said WHM's mana issues stem from your party members is spot on. I never have any mana issues if my group is on point and in 4 mans I am dpsing maybe 90+% of the time.
Advanced tactics: Spell/Ability Queueing - I don't know if this is common knowledge or not but you can activate almost any oGCD (Or stance) while casting. At any point during the cast. It will happen immediately after your current cast finishes.
Movement - You can start moving once your cast is roughly 75%-80% through and it will still go off. -
07-14-2016, 10:18 AMZadocfish
I reached lvl 50 as SCH. In all but the really big encounters and bosses, I would be doing NOTHING whatsoever in most combat if I wasn't DPSing. The DOT power is fantastic in CS. It's like having 3 DPS for average encounters, and even with DPS and Healing bars on different bars, I can switch between the two seamlessly so long as I have Cleric Stance on both bars.
So yeah, I agree that a SCH who doesn't DPS isn't doing his job well. Simply put, you're just straight-up not doing much of anything in average encounters thanks to your fairy. -
07-14-2016, 11:24 AMFeliciaTheSecondI honestly don't know how healers can JUST heal in anything that isn't top tier raiding content. I would honestly fall asleep. As it stands now even as a WHM I spend 90% of my time dpsing in groups. A lot of times thanks to holy stun I don't even have to cast a heal on some pulls in 4 mans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zadocfish
Also I really need to try out SCH one of these days. Even as a whm main I fully acknowledge that they are overall better than us, although that may vary by people's preference. -
07-14-2016, 11:32 AMZadocfishYeah, between Lily and a toolkit including a free, instant Potency 600 healing spell and a free, instant 10% damage reduction over a decent area, awesome MP restorative built into its best abilities, and spells that include damage cushions, SCH has perhaps the easiest time of any class at keeping allies alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by FeliciaTheSecond
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07-14-2016, 09:45 PM_slowpoke_Good healers have always DPS'd, even before Gordias. Gordias just made it that much more apparent that DPSing is part of our jobs as healers, and that it separates the mediocre from the truly good healers.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiisWolf
This is a strawman argument, because no one argues this. Stop using it. We're saying that you should minimize healing while maximizing time spent in Cleric Stance, because it's the only way to master the art of healing. You will never understand or even master the finer nuances of MP, GCD, and time management if you do not DPS as a healer, because it's unnecessary to do so if you don't, which leads us to your next point...Quote:
I find more and more healers argue that healing comes second
If you only heal, you are not doing your job properly - you are literally ignoring half your toolkit - and you cannot be good at healing if you refuse to DPS. You might be able to keep the group alive and get them through an encounter, but that is not being a good healer, that's doing the required absolute minimum. You can at best be considered mediocre, and judging from experience, most "heals only" players are really, really bad at their job.Quote:
and it doesn't help players who do only heal while doing a superb job at it get noticed or commended
No healer who pushes for DPS will contest the first part. It's the second we vehemently disagree with. Again, you are ignoring half your toolkit if you refuse to touch Cleric Stance, you are going to stand around for up to 100% of a fight if you're not DPSing (which is inexcusable on all other jobs as well, so healers don't get a free pass for it either), and you're intentionally being lazy. Fighting is not supplementary. It's part of our job, and if you don't do it, you're a mediocre healer. You can of course accept this and carry on being mediocre, but stop arguing that intentionally playing your job at a suboptimal level can be considered playing well, because it isn't.Quote:
Heals always come first. Fighting is purely supplementary.
How does that matter exactly?Quote:
This isn't WoW where they actually encourage combat healers by boosting your healing with certain attacks.
No, it's not. Hell, the game even tells you this in the Hall of Novices. See signature [edit: apparently my signature disappeared for some reason]. You are expected to DPS if you have nothing better to do, end of story.Quote:
Cleric stance is just there to make doing things by yourself, such as defending yourself, a lot less dreadful.
Cleric is disabled in PvP not because you're not supposed to DPS there (you are), but because it would cause healers to be severely overpowered.Quote:
As if the fact that CS is disabled in PvP
Yes, which is what you will hear every good healer complaining about while they put 120 accuracy on their relic and meld Accuracy as much as they can. Healer gear having no accuracy is not an indication that you're not supposed to DPS.Quote:
all heavensward healing gear having no accuracy
If you're bringing up mechanics now (and I suppose you're talking about A7's healer jail), let me bring up my own examples, which disprove your point.Quote:
and mechanics that has no enemy to attack or forces you to save yourself wasn't any indication enough about what's intended and what's not.
Calcabrina requires you to DPS as a healer. If you don't, you are objectively playing your job wrong.
Hummelfaust basically required healer DPS before people got their 230 weapons, unless your DPS players were really, really good. The combined ~1k DPS that a good healing duo could push there was the difference between getting to the actual boss and a humiliating wipe on a trash boss.
A6s Blaster has the five mirages phase, where no damage is going out at all. If you are not in Cleric spamming Holy/Gravity in this phase, you are objectively playing your job wrong.
Plus, there's a lot of boss fights where every bit of additional DPS can help to push phases early, thus skipping damage that you would otherwise have to heal. Nidex is a great example overall: the earlier you push add phase, the less Bellowing Roars and cleaves you have deal with. The faster you kill the adds, the less you have to worry about their cleaves, and they hit like wet noodles otherwise. Healer DPS during Fang & Claw highly increases the margin of error. Healer DPS in the last phase can be the difference between getting another Ahk Morn towards the end for which you won't have enough healing CDs (or MP, for that matter), and a kill - not to mention the fact that there is no damage happening for extended amounts of time in the last phase, too.
Finally, to sum this up: it doesn't matter what the devs intended or not, these are the facts. About the only thing the devs have said is that they don't require healer DPS when they tune encounters, because they realized Gordias was overtuned. That doesn't mean you're not supposed to DPS as a healer, it merely means your DPS contribution is not strictly required to beat a boss. Besides, basically every fight in this game is designed in a way that you have downtime as a healer. I could as well argue that this means the devs intended you to DPS there. Again, I don't, because what the devs intended does not matter in this discussion. Player skill is defined by the meta, not by the devs. -
07-15-2016, 02:33 AMsackm
^ great post