So for 3.3, I decided that I'd focus a lot more on WAR, after having been a DRG main since closed beta (dabbling in healing and tanking but not very seriously). I can handle most stuff just fine, but I don't have an in-depth understanding of what to prioritise when I tank more intricate stuff like EX trials and the like. I feel like some stuff I can handle simply because I'm overgeared for it, and that's not what I want.
1. If I'm maintanking, I can never decide which combos to prioritise once I've established aggro. Should I keep up Eye for the offtank/NIN or should I focus on mitigation and aggro with Path and BB combos? It feels best to alternate Path and Eye, but I have been known to eventually lose aggro when doing that (unless I'm in Deliverence, but then stuff hurts a lot).
2. Tank swaps sometimes get messy, because unless me and the other tank are synchronized, there tend to be a conal AoE aimed at the party while I'm running towards the mob I just provoked. Thoughts on timing/execution?
3. Is there any sites with on-point, written guides for EX tanking intricacies (including ARR primals)? I feel like I want to know what skills to pop when, what to pop together, when I shouldn't be in Deliverence, when I should save stacks for Inner Beast, etc.
Maybe I just need to tank this type of content more and get a feel for it myself, but any pointers you could give me would be very welcome. ;)
EX tanking
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06-23-2016, 08:02 PMseekifiedEX tanking
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06-23-2016, 08:18 PMSarcatica
1. Eye into BB if you are fine with the damage. Eye into Path if you aren't. Eye into Eye if you are expecting a swap soon or are close to Pacification period.
2. Learn when it is time to swap and queue BB before provoking if you don't need the aggro that soon since you will have delay. Use Skull Sunder if you need a fast one. If you are not comfortable with tank swap yet, I recommend you to be in Defiance before provoking to get the most aggro. Also learn if there are cleaves or not. You can normally stack with your cotank before swap happens.
3. There isn't too many guides specifically for WAR for every content. Do check out Xenosys Vex in Youtube. The simplest way is to experience yourself and then see respective guides on the timing of boss skills. -
06-23-2016, 08:25 PMAshur
really it'll just take practice, but personally i find in a fight i always rotate storms eye and the butcher's block combo, and alternate to storm's path instead if i know there's plenty of incoming damage. Best ask your healers if they need it, or try and judge on the situation.
Tank swaps, best to have a macro so your other tank knows when you provoke, and stand with him in front of the boss before you do. then the boss wont turn and your tank will have an idea of what you're about to do if they see you standing with them.
As for tanking guides, really its only the mechanics you need to know which are explained. cooldown micro-managing is something you have to learn and people have different preferences for rotating their cooldowns. you'll learn things like during Nid-ex, when he's casting hot wings and tail he's not attacking you so if youre wary of going deliverance, it wont hurt at all to swap in for that. one thing i often do is thrill of battle before swapping into deliverance, not after because its a higher hp cushion (20% on top of defiance's 25). or berserk and bloodbath to help negate some of the boss' auto-attacks, when i know i can comfortably get back into defiance before the tank buster comes -
06-23-2016, 08:35 PMSarcatica
On mobile so I need to work around the 1k char limit.
General stuff:
1. If unsure about tanking, best to be in Defiance. It's even easier for WAR to switch stances.
2. If unsure when to pop CDs, see videos on WAR POV. It will give you the general idea of when tank busters are coming. This will be your basis to save big CDs for those tank busters specifically. Don't blatantly copy how those guys play due to differences in group and skill wise. It's all about experience.
3. Don't be discouraged about how badly you do, of course so long as you improve. -
06-23-2016, 08:51 PMKali-ka
To echo pretty much what everyone else said, you just have to learn what rotations are the most optimal for each fight. As far as using path, I normally use it as a padding between all of my other defensives on cooldown (which rarely happens), if I'm soloing an add in deliverance, or if there's going to be a ton of aoe going out to the entire party (akh mourn, A5S lightning, etc.) Pretty much all other times I'm doing eye/BB rotations.
As far as tank swaps go, its best to communicate as much as possible. I usually do most ex and savage fights with my raid group and we're always on voice chat so its easy to communicate swaps, but for all instances, I use my provoke macro with a sound effect. I find it helpful that both your healers know that you're MTing now as well as the other tank to ease off on their aggro combo. -
06-23-2016, 09:54 PMseekified
Great feedback, thanks everyone. :) Damage-wise I think I'm usually pretty okay, it's just I'm sometimes too late with my Inner Beast for tank busters. Fights that "worry" me in particular would probably be stuff like Mog EX (lots of tankswaps) and Ramuh EX (lots of tank swaps and stacks management) and, more recently, Nidhogg EX (but here I just get demolished by adds despite popping CDs and eventually Holmganging, so I'm going to assume DPS was too low).
I should probably just re-watch guides for these fights, queue up, and try my best. -
06-23-2016, 10:42 PMSarcaticaNidEX's adds are kinda strange. Physical doesn't do a lot of damage while Magical deals a shit tonnes after 1st stack. One way to solve if your DPS is too low is to kill the Falak (magical) first instead. This will 100% make it easier since Physical tank buster tickles like mosquito bites for first few stacking.Quote:
Originally Posted by seekified
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06-23-2016, 11:26 PMDonjoTake Falak from WAR. Eat first stack. The 2nd stack has one shotted the WAR before. Pop Rampart in preparation. Take 19.5k damage from 2nd stack anyway. Cry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcatica
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06-23-2016, 11:47 PMKitfoxThe problem with doing that is the physical add also has a magical attack, the miasma spit or whatever it does after the 3rd phys stack iirc, so if you swap from magical add to physical one while having magic resist down stacks, the spit will murder you. Safest way, in my opinion, is to kill the physical add first, while the tank with the magical snake takes 2 stacks, and uses Holmgang/HG/LD for the 3rd stack if DPS is low. First magical breath tickles, but the second one does around 33k dmg, so you want to double up on CDs for that, and depending on gear also have tank stance. 3rd breath you won't survive without cheating death.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcatica
Personally, I save Thrill + Vengeance or Rampart + Sentinel or Shadowskin + Shadow Wall for the 2nd breath while in DPS stance at i238. At lower gear levels I'd pair those CDs with tank stance. -
06-23-2016, 11:59 PMDonjoWhile that is absolutely true, it is also viable to kill the Falak first and then never swap on the physical. That Tank will reach 5 stacks or so, but since they aren't as dangerous it's possible to survive that long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitfox
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06-24-2016, 01:50 AMMahoSenshi2nd stack don't kill with Rampart alone, but healers must be on their toes.Quote:
Personally, I save Thrill + Vengeance or Rampart + Sentinel or Shadowskin + Shadow Wall for the 2nd breath while in DPS stance at i238. At lower gear levels I'd pair those CDs with tank stance.
Problem with using 2 CDs - you will not have it for next Ala Morn. -
06-24-2016, 02:18 AMKitfoxYes, you will, if you start by tanking the East add. Though, I guess it might vary if DPS is extremely high.Quote:
Originally Posted by MahoSenshi
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06-24-2016, 04:37 AMEspI know with DRK, you can eat the first stack with absolutely no CDs, second stack a Shadowskin + DA'd Dark Mind is more than enough to survive, 3rd however, yea.. cheating death time.Quote:
Originally Posted by MahoSenshi
This leaves you with Shadow Wall + Dark Dance, more than enough for the tank buster and a bit for the cleave, so using 2 CDs is sometimes ok depending on the job xD -
06-24-2016, 03:45 PMBrian_
I don't do Nidhogg much because there really isn't much of a reason to but I will usually tank the right add in full-time Deliverance. I budget GCDs so that I have SS > BB ready for the pick up, apply eye, and then triple FC it. I will tell both healers just to full-time DPS the other add to ensure it dies quickly because usually bloodbath is enough to keep me alive until the second tank buster. I will Holmgang with around 23 seconds left on the debuff to cover the 2nd tank buster and second wind to push myself out of immediate lethal range while the healer transitions to healing me. At this point, the other add should be about dead and the other tank will provoke before the 3rd buster.
If your group is getting a third buster (which is just sad if both healers are DPSing the other add to ensure it dies quickly enough to allow the swap before the third), then you will have to burn some CDs for the second instead and Holmgang the third. Alternatively, if your group is just barely missing the swap window, you can also tank the left add instead and drop your triple FC on that one instead. That might be enough to kill before the third buster.
And probably some more advanced tips --
WAR is all about foresight (not the CD).
As others have said, you generally want to prep SS before your Provoke for a tank swap. But, you will probably run into awkward timings during short swap windows where you have to hold your GCD or reset your combo to ensure that SS will be ready or end up doing something shady like trying to snap aggro with Maim / Eye / Path / HS. In relation to your question about when to use Eye, Path, and Block, it is somewhat related to this. For WAR, it's not just about the moment. It's about the pre-planning multiple combos ahead to ensure fluidity. If you are stuck in the middle of a Maim rotation at the time of a short window tank swap like Perpetual Ray in A8, Second Head in T11, Claw and Fang in NidEX, etc., you want to adjust your prior rotation to maybe Eye --> Eye --> Block so that the result changes from HS> Maim> Eye> HS> SS> BB> HS> Maim> ***SWAP*** to HS> Maim> Eye> HS> Maim> Eye> HS> SS> ***SWAP***.
And, if you want to further optimize the alignment of your GCD for a specific moment, you can add or subtract fractures from your prior rotation to push a GCD 1 GCD earlier or later. For example, in the above rotation, you can Fracture> HS> Maim> Eye> HS> Maim> Eye> HS> ***SWAP***. Due to the Fracture pushing back your overall GCD budgetting by 1 GCD, your SS will now shift to right where you want it -- right after the Provoke.
The obvious issue with using Fracture to adjust your GCD alignment is the up-time and efficiency of Fracture. Because it's such a small potency upgrade over a WAR's average GCD and delays your stack build by a GCD, you really need to exercise judgement in how you use it to adjust your GCD alignment. If you are adding it to delay your overall GCD rotation, you ideally want to do so in a way where it doesn't clip with a previous Fracture application and retains good up-time.