How Can We Make the NA Community Better?

I have noticed a certain rise in negative behavior, which is strange, because I thought I'd rarely ever see it in our game.

I.e.
Selling housing plots, abusing the amazon promotion, insulting one another, early pulling, being rude in dungeons, not being a proper mentor (basically just doing it for the crown), and other negative impacting behavior.

How can we improve our community? I'm starting to feel embarrassed. Am I the only one?

My only idea is trying to provide a better example. Unfortunately that's all I have and while I think I make an impact on my own community, because I usually don't see these players again, I don't know whether or not this worked.

However as a note, it seems you and I have run into highly different people as while I do get those rude ones(one very bad memory of seph normal), they seem to be few and far between. That's not to say that the problem doesn't exist as I do believe it's there, I just must have had a run of good luck. If you come up with any ideas, I'll see how well they work within the Mateus community and report back.

My Suggestions:

1. Remove rewards from the mentor program. Change the whistle to a certain amount of achievement points. If we make it simply voluntary, some of the bad mentors might start to leave.

2. Improve the ToS. Make it clear on which things are banned.

3. Make a system that prevents early pulling. Perhaps when you try to attack an enemy, it would initiate a countdown, and during that time no one could attack. That might get annoying, but maybe it could solve things?

4. Put item codes WITH PROMOTIONS, and don't do it with any digital products. That way people will be less inclined to sell codes. If that doesn't work, assign a code with a username, so that it won't work with anyone else. That might be impossible though..

5. If you see negative behavior, report it, or talk to the person. Try to ask them why they are acting that way, and help them. If they refuse to be helped, report.
I really don't know 100% what needs to be done, these are just some of my ideas.

"Early pulling" is just a by-product of Hunts as a whole. You're not going to stop that from happening without totally overhauling how hunts work. There's really no such thing as an early pull because no matter what, other people will be barred from the content in some way. You want to fix hunts? Start with talking about Guildworks.

Or maybe we'd have better luck talking about Voldemort.

Is there any way to fix it? It seems like that's just the personality of the people in the server. Isn't there a saying like "A leopard can't change it spots."?

You could do what some other NA (and EU and other) players have done: Switch to an Oceanic server.

Although I started off on this server, I have met a few people on my server who understand no or very little of the main language spoken here. When I asked them why they came to this server without knowing the language, they said the community they were in before was just so terrible that they wanted to get away and find a peaceful place.

From what I read on this forum, the problems that seem to plague some communities are basically non-existent here. I'm not saying everyone is a saint, but I certainly haven't met, or know anyone who has met, such toxic people that I often hear about on this forum.

I wonder why there are people like that. I can't understand it.

The people I know who switched servers for this reason tell me there are so much more happier in the Oceanic server.

I don't know why the atmosphere in this server is so different from the atmosphere in your server though. I have trouble understanding why such people act in such a way.

Stop harrasment agains other players. I follow this rules:

1. You're playing with other human beings, show respect.

2. A wipe doesn't mean everyone sucks or everyone is bad player. You can save the typicll "Really?", "OMG, you suck", "This is a farm party?" or whatever shit you can imagine because that will make you like a idiot.

3. Down Savage content doesn't make you better player.

4. Being the first in down a thing don't allow you demand everyone know the strat or watch a video/guide.

5. New player doesn't mean bad player, neither he is "plague", he deserves learn and play much the same as a veteran.

6. A veteran word is not more important than a newie one. You both are the same.

7. Report any negative behaviour like discrimination, harrasment, DPS, cheating or whatever instead of, for example, open thread about how to put walls to avoid newies or low skilled players for join content or how to add a option to avoid newies on rouelttes (yes, I read such things around here).

8. Give Feedback with the head instead of ask stupid things because you had a tantrum.

9. A roulette menas you accept any duty eill pop, stop ask for kick or go Offline or leave because you don't want a specific dungeon, or leave cause you got your item or level up.

10. Help players instead of tell them how much sucks. Also, you can learn for other instead of tell thme "Go fuck I play how I want"

11. Final Fantasy XIV is not Final Fantasy XI. THey work in a different way.

This are some of MY rules, I'm not saying everyone has to follow it, just giving ideas. I have much more than this ones of course.

While I agree with the sentiments, I don't think this is easily executed. It requires the community to come together and work with SE to shut down cheaters, abusive players, and to actually try to be the community that they expected us to be when they left these things alone in the first place. Sadly, all that has happened is that things got out of hand and now SE will be forced to do something about it which will of course make the game worse for everyone.

You're just not going to fix behavior like that. I can't speak for other countries, but the attitudes a lot of people have in America plus the anonymity of the internet alongside your character reputation not mattering in this game like it did in FFXI ends up giving us the current state of behavior. People were absolute jerks at ARR launch. Back when you'd get 1 gil at most from dungeon mobs and gil was hard to come by and Titan Hard was relevant new content, people wouldn't want to eat the quit penalty and would continually pull the boss and wipe the group so someone would quit out of sheer frustration of eating costly repair bills.

It's not a new or recent thing for people to behave poorly. And so long as the game is set up so your character reputation doesn't matter (and it really doesn't with cross-server duty finder and reputation only really mattering for raiding), nothing's going to change.

Compared to games like BDO's forum, this is Disney

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xlantaa

Stop harrasment agains other players. I follow this rules:

1. You're playing with other human beings, show respect.

2. A wipe doesn't mean everyone sucks or everyone is bad player. You can save the typicll "Really?", "OMG, you suck", "This is a farm party?" or whatever shit you can imagine because that will make you like a idiot.

3. Down Savage content doesn't make you better player.

4. Being the first in down a thing don't allow you demand everyone know the strat or watch a video/guide.

5. New player doesn't mean bad player, neither he is "plague", he deserves learn and play much the same as a veteran.

6. A veteran word is not more important than a newie one. You both are the same.

7. Report any negative behaviour like discrimination, harrasment, DPS, cheating or whatever instead of, for example, open thread about how to put walls to avoid newies or low skilled players for join content or how to add a option to avoid newies on rouelttes (yes, I read such things around here).

8. Give Feedback with the head instead of ask stupid things because you had a tantrum.

9. A roulette menas you accept any duty eill pop, stop ask for kick or go Offline or leave because you don't want a specific dungeon, or leave cause you got your item or level up.

10. Help players instead of tell them how much sucks. Also, you can learn for other instead of tell thme "Go fuck I play how I want"

11. Final Fantasy XIV is not Final Fantasy XI. THey work in a different way.

This are some of MY rules, I'm not saying everyone has to follow it, just giving ideas. I have much more than this ones of course.

---

I agree with the part about insults in dungeons. You know, I could be having the worst day, and be in the worst mental state, so you know what happens? I get called a shit tank. It's so funny how everyone bashes the tank, but DPS often gets a pass for not doing rotations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

You're just not going to fix behavior like that. I can't speak for other countries, but the attitudes a lot of people have in America plus the anonymity of the internet alongside your character reputation not mattering in this game like it did in FFXI ends up giving us the current state of behavior. People were absolute jerks at ARR launch. Back when you'd get 1 gil at most from dungeon mobs and gil was hard to come by and Titan Hard was relevant new content, people wouldn't want to eat the quit penalty and would continually pull the boss and wipe the group so someone would quit out of sheer frustration of eating costly repair bills.

It's not a new or recent thing for people to behave poorly. And so long as the game is set up so your character reputation doesn't matter (and it really doesn't with cross-server duty finder and reputation only really mattering for raiding), nothing's going to change.

---

I don't agree with you. I think that if we want to change things in our area of the world, and in our gaming communities, we need to stand up for negative behavior. It doesn't mean being a keyboard warrior, a political correct monster, or a white knight, it just means that you are proactive in holding up good values. That means you act the way you want to be treated, and you stand up for negativity when you see it. Be the light you want to see in the world, and more will light up in front of you. Not everything is going to change, but this world IS governed by people, and as a result you'd be surprised at what you can influence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I have noticed a certain rise in negative behavior, which is strange, because I thought I'd rarely ever see it in our game.

I.e.
Selling housing plots, abusing the amazon promotion, insulting one another, early pulling, being rude in dungeons, not being a proper mentor (basically just doing it for the crown), and other negative impacting behavior.

How can we improve our community? I'm starting to feel embarrassed. Am I the only one?

---

Selling housing plots: Is this really that negative? I mean it is annoying for sure, but it is a direct by-product of the economy that SE has created. Best way to address this is to not have housing be open in wards, make it instanced, and give everyone a house. Otherwise, you'll get this.

Abusing the Amazon promotion: I am not sure how negative this is either. It doesn't really impact anyone but the player, Square and Amazon. I doubt either Amazon nor Square are losing sleep over this. However, if they wanted to address it, all they would have to do is set it so your code only applies once the sale is final (i.e. shipped/charged), or have the bonus items be directly removed from an account if the player refunds. As a community, we can't do anything about this and I don't really think we should either - (it would simply create an even more negative environment)

Insulting one another - this is a pretty big rarity from my perspective. I could count on one hand how many times in my 3000 hours of playtime that I have witnessed direct insults. I have, however, noticed a lot of people assumed they are being insulted when they are not. There is a possibility that is happening to you, or that you are the root of said insults (i.e. inadvertently, or purposefully, provoking others).

Being rude in dungeons - Again this is pretty rare from my experiences. However, I have seen it happen. Usually, I just ignore it and move on - maybe rant to my friends about "that whm in my expert" to vent etc. It's usually nothing huge, and can easily be ignored. It's rare enough that I wouldn't say it is a community problem that needs dire attention.

Mentors: I have very little opinion on this. From what I have seen as an outsider, the entire mentorship program is a joke. Though, I thought since the announcement that it seemed like a poorly designed system, so I never took part. So, again, I do not have much opinion.

I'd say the biggest negative impact on our community are threads on reddit and the forum calling out on the negativity in the game (i.e. this one, stories etc.) which make it seem like the world is much more negative than it actually is. This makes it feel more negative and spreads that feeling.

For example, people read stories of how toxic Weeping City is, then queue up for it and expect a very negative experience - they refuse to tell anyone they are new and get tips etc. This then leads to wipes and frustrations and people don't know what is going on. Conversely, the alliance I ran Weeping City with on my first run was incredibly friendly (I was expecting it to be toxic after reading so many threads on it). Everyone was laughing and having a good time and we all offered friendly advice to improve. One alliance in particular kept dying over and over and refused to answer/speak up when we tried to address it for 3 wipes straight. Finally one person said something, we helped them, and cleared on our next try.

I guess, if we want the community to be less toxic, we can start by not assuming they are toxic.

As long as internet and anonymity exists, the players will not change.

No one player can do much to affect the way the whole community behaves. But I think it is possible to make your immediate environment better by being friendly and helpful.

The hardest for me is calling out other players when I see them being jerks to someone. I'd rather just keep my head down, but it's better to speak up - not because it will make the jerk stop, but to support the player they're being rude to. It might seem pointless but it can really turn bad experiences around for people.

Like my first Castrum run - at the very end, once his bonus was secure, the tank went off on me for watching cutscenes. Immediately everyone else told him he was being unreasonable and to take his bonus and shut up. Then proceeded to reassure me that it was fine to watch cutscenes the first time through, and threw in some helpful gameplay advice to boot. So even though it started as a bad encounter with a jerk, I came out of it thinking "this community seems pretty cool".

IF you ever wish to see how it can also be, visit some EU servers. Except for some early pulls in the first week of 3.3, and the really rare rude behavior in dungeons, I have encountered close to zero toxic ness on Cerberus...
I'm personally always shocked to hear stories of people on NA data centers... But only on this game. I've met my fair share of toxic player in other games, but ONLY other mmo's...

Housing is very negative, because potentially plots would NEVER open, which goes against the system that was put in place. Personally, I think housing should be a fair, and equal opportunity. It should be obtainable, and on display for everyone with the funds to purchase. Allowing players to sell goes against that, unless they added some sort of a housing market in game. I don't see the point though, its not like you craft a plot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I don't agree with you. I think that if we want to change things in our area of the world, and in our gaming communities, we need to stand up for negative behavior. It doesn't mean being a keyboard warrior, a political correct monster, or a white knight, it just means that you are proactive in holding up good values. That means you act the way you want to be treated, and you stand up for negativity when you see it. Be the light you want to see in the world, and more will light up in front of you. Not everything is going to change, but this world IS governed by people, and as a result you'd be surprised at what you can influence.

---

That's fine and all, but it's ultimately futile given how this (internet) game is set up. So long as personal reputation doesn't matter, anonymity will always empower poor behavior.

You can do more than you might think, because the world is round. Every action you make is like a never ending chain, touching EVERYTHING within reach of that thing. You don't even realize it, but with one smile you might of passively reached at least 100-1000 people by chain reaction. That's how negativity, and positivity travel the world.

I'll explain it even more: Say you're in college, and you walk into your first class. Something happens, because of someone, and you get angry. People around you notice your bad mood, and they pick up on it right? Well, then those people go onto their daily activities, bringing their bad moods to other people, and the people they influenced do the same to more people. Your behavior ALWAYS matters. It's not futile.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Housing is very negative, because potentially plots would NEVER open, which goes against the system that was put in place. Personally, I think housing should be a fair, and equal opportunity. It should be obtainable, and on display for everyone with the funds to purchase. Allowing players to sell goes against that, unless they added some sort of a housing market in game. I don't see the point though, its not like you craft a plot.

---

Except the onus is on the developers to create plots.

Not to be rude but you might want to check up on these concepts:

Real estate economics
Supply and demand

Just because the goods are virtual does not mean they don't fall subject to real world issues when the supply doesn't meet the expected demand, some players obviously went a bit overboard (understatement) but the reality is that those players responded poorly to a very real game limitation.

As for many of your other points they are mostly subjective, Kaurie's post does a much better job responding to them point by point than i can at this moment, but i agree with her in that threads like these while made with good intentions ultimately do more harm than good when I'm sure there are many players who either do not feel the same way as you do or simply have not come across the same issues you're claiming to raise and may have their view of the community skewed as a result.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Housing is very negative, because potentially plots would NEVER open, which goes against the system that was put in place. Personally, I think housing should be a fair, and equal opportunity. It should be obtainable, and on display for everyone with the funds to purchase. Allowing players to sell goes against that, unless they added some sort of a housing market in game. I don't see the point though, its not like you craft a plot.

---

While I agree the housing system is off, I do not think it has to do with a toxic community and more to do with game design. Devs could limit housing plots to 1 per account as a band-aid solution. Alternatively, they can embrace a housing market which their system is best developed for. Another option is to demolish the current system and build a new one where everyone gets their own plot. I am sure there are more, but those are 3 off the top of my head.

Unfortunately, the housing situation has nothing to do with the community and everything to do with game design.

As I said, it's the internet, and the golden rule stuff doesn't work in practice here like it does off the internet. The people you really need to reach with this stuff are going to be the same people who wouldn't listen or change their ways anyway. The only thing that's going to make them act any differently is personal consequences, and so long as you don't have meaningful character reputation, it won't matter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaurie

Snip.

---

You got a good head on your shoulders, very level.

People will always embellish their negative experiences in the game, consciously or otherwise, because even the smallest bad thing seems to just wound people devastatingly. So rarely have I ever had a shitty experience from people's behaviors in dungeons or raids. Either they come smiling and bright, or just quiet and minding themselves. Maybe in the past month+ have I had one guy with a bit of an attitude, and once the run was over I hadn't thought about him again since now.

Weeping City, same junk. People cry and wail how terrible the people there are, but my very first run, going in blind, people were awesome. Had maybe one snarky ass hole, but we all had our fun and even with wipes we were all sarcastic shits. Good times through and through. And this has continued so far every run.

Honestly all this negativity is purely existent on here and on reddit. People who are just swimming in whatever potential bad experience they've ever had. And really you're gonna believe you see nothing but negativity when you are explicitly looking for it. Had some guy on our server last night throwing out questions about behaviors and attitudes on the server. I wasn't paying attention much and only caught the last half of the thing, but people pretty much kept telling him the server is fine and that nobody is just going to attack him. Yet he insisted that people would. I'm guessing he was part of a "community" and was trying to gauge the general acceptance/tolerance levels? I dunno, but it just sounded like he wanted people to come after him rather than just chillin and doin whatevs.

I just ignore most negativity that I see, which is usually rare. Every so often you'll have a bad experience in maybe a dungeon or 24 man raid, but those are usually the people that will drop after which ever boss they are after, then the run goes smooth.

Last night I was having quite a bad day at work, came home and ran one of my roulettes, expecting more of my bad luck to transcend over to Eorzea, and while tanking I had a nice group in a Lost City HM party that was very talkative and just fun to be around, leagues better than about 50% of my Duty finder runs I have had, so much so that we ended up almost staying the full extra 5 min after the dungeon was over just talking about our favorite FF games xD

Going after trolls usually tends to make them troll harder, so don't give their behavior any thought and they usually stop...although, sometimes they won't. As others have mentioned, since people know you will most likely never see said people again, it kinda attracts this kind of behavior.

Server reputation is a thing. People are more mindful and careful on their actions because they don't want it to spread and be refused to do content or runs because of their negative behavior. DF(NA) is giving them an excuse to do what they want because they will never see each other again. Now mind you, not -everyone- is rude or anything. DF isn't toxic or anything. It honestly comes down to how one person is raised and their moral standards. It's why Oceanic/JP servers aren't necessarily so toxic so to speak. There's bad apples everywhere, but NA is just worse because we essentially have not community built with each other. There was no reason for us to do so until the occasional EX Primal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I have noticed a certain rise in negative behavior, which is strange, because I thought I'd rarely ever see it in our game.

I.e.
Selling housing plots, abusing the amazon promotion, insulting one another, early pulling, being rude in dungeons, not being a proper mentor (basically just doing it for the crown), and other negative impacting behavior.

How can we improve our community? I'm starting to feel embarrassed. Am I the only one?

---

Games going down the pipes bub, This game peaked around 2.1-2.3 and it has only been getting progressively worse.

Players are getting angsty, desperate, and disappointed. Just find some small slice of the game to enjoy while this boat is still floating.

The best we can do, OP, is not to spread it. I'm concerned too, and the kind of attitude on the forums I see also concerns me. Personally, I'm all for people learning and improving. But not everyone sees that, so the entire playerbase gets thrown under the bus when the game gets a bit more difficult, as with this last patch.

If it's easy for you, it doesn't mean it's easy for everyone else. If it's more difficult for you, it doesn't mean it needs a nerf. Patience and a good attitude go a long way. I can recognize Final Steps of Faith and Weeping City as a step up in difficulty and still enjoy clearing or helping people clear. Getting this sense of entitlement that these instances do or don't need a nerf because they're too hard or the rest of the players are drunk hippos and need to uninstall is a bad way to look at things. There ARE people that don't want to learn, but I rarely run into them. What I run into MORE, however, are players that are going to throwing in the towel while people are still adjusting and picking things up because they assume everyone sucks.

Please guys, a little patience with the right people will go a long way to helping.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zosia

Games going down the pipes bub, This game peaked around 2.1-2.3 and it has only been getting progressively worse.

Players are getting angsty, desperate, and disappointed. Just find some small slice of the game to enjoy while this boat is still floating.

---

If the game is getting as bad as you say, then what keeps you here? Sounds like you don't like most of the people in the game.

They do bring up a good point though. Players are very angsty, and on edge if late. These are symptoms, and there has to be causes to these effects.

of late* forgive me, Im on mobile and can't edit right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

If the game is getting as bad as you say, then what keeps you here? Sounds like you don't like most of the people in the game.

---

The same thing that keeps a good portion of us around? Friends n FC? lolololol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianFatale

They do bring up a good point though. Players are very angsty, and on edge if late. These are symptoms, and there has to be causes to these effects.

---

Yeah, the cracks in this games finish are showing and growing. People are getting fed up of the same formula and the same excuses. At least I never get tired of being right ^_^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zosia

The same thing that keeps a good portion of us around? Friends n FC? lolololol



Yeah, the cracks in this games finish are showing and growing. People are getting fed up of the same formula and the same excuses. At least I never get tired of being right ^_^

---

Sounds like you like to dabble in a bit of instigation then. Or maybe you like sadism. It's the only reason I can think of whenever a game is apparently bad to the point of one thinking the game should have never been sold, yet here we are.

People should be grate full this isn't Final Fantasy XI in the early days, you made enemy's in that game you were screwed. Espically if you ticked of a whm was like have a nice long walk from X-Cabard lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melondra

People should be grate full this isn't Final Fantasy XI in the early days, you made enemy's in that game you were screwed. Espically if you ticked of a whm was like have a nice long walk from X-Cabard lol.

---

Casually entering Valkurm Dunes, you look to the horizon and see a player running towards you. You think nothing of it for a moment and then you see the huge train of enemies and you look back to that poor soul and weep.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Sounds like you like to dabble in a bit of instigation then. Or maybe you like sadism. It's the only reason I can think of whenever a game is apparently bad to the point of one thinking the game should have never been sold, yet here we are.

---

I gave you your reason, you don't have to make one up. Would I like the game to get better? Yes I would since I play it with my friends. Will the game get better? Nope. Stick around until 7.0 or some arbitrary point in the future and just watch how little things change.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xlantaa

Stop harrasment agains other players. I follow this rules:

---

1: Respect goes both ways, don't expect one to respect the other player because one is better or one simply doesn't give a shit.
2: A wipe doesn't mean a player suck, mistakes happens. However ignoring the mechanic or not listening does make you look as a bad player.
3: Downing hard content does make you a better player. Playing maximized does make you a better player, compare a good player doing savage to one who can't even sit in the green puddle on second boss in weeping city.
4: Having knowledge for the fight is all about respect. If one person has no clue what's going on, the progression stops because one person dies to the same mechanic all the time. Respect, goes both ways, check point 1.
5: I agree
6: I agree again
7: Cheats are bad. Bad as people who ignoring listening to people giving advice.
8: I agree, however many people doesn't want to take advice, read many on this forum, saying ''I play however I want'' atttitude.
9: I agree, hence the name roulette.
10: I agree, sadly I have more experience from people saying I don't need your advice. It's fine they say it in a nice way, but if they don't want to improve in a fight where it matters, they have no right to be in a party and wipe them on ''purpose''. Advice is the key for the players, always been. I was once a noob too like yourself so advice is the key no matter what, however advice isn't always taken so nice from other players.
11: Yup.

tried turning it off and turn it back on???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I have noticed a certain rise in negative behavior, which is strange, because I thought I'd rarely ever see it in our game.

I.e.
Selling housing plots, abusing the amazon promotion, insulting one another, early pulling, being rude in dungeons, not being a proper mentor (basically just doing it for the crown), and other negative impacting behavior.

How can we improve our community? I'm starting to feel embarrassed. Am I the only one?

---

Crossed out the early pulling part because there is no such thing. Everything else you mentioned I can agree on.

Unless XIV turns into a totalitarian regime, there's nothing that can be done.