Additional data on stat testing, STR, ATTK, Base Damage

Hey everyone. I did a manual parse comparing three weapons to see which would provide the best damage increase for my character and decided that the information may be helpful to the rest of the community. My targets were brutal sheep in Coerthas and I only recorded numbers against the level 40 sheep.

The 3 weapons I tested were a Hart Guisarme, Hart Guisarme +30 STR, and Hart Guisarme +1 with +23 attack materia.

Unfortunately due to my limited time and budget I could not afford to test a Hart Guisarme (NQ) with an attack materia. If someone would like to contribute to my findings that would be the next step I would test.

My stats:

NQ HG || HG +30 STR || HG+1 +23 ATTK
STR: 278 || 308 || 278
DEX: 222 || 222 || 222
Attack: 497 || 497 || 520

**Note** My attack power did not increase when changing from a NQ HG to a +30 STR version.

Data

Average damage over 1000 hits, auto attacks only, crits excluded
NQ HG = 307.03215
HG +30 STR = 312.78
HG+1 +23 ATK = 328.53

Lowest hit
NQ HG = 281
HG +30 STR = 291
HG+1 +23 ATK = 303

Highest hit
NQ HG = 330
HG +30 STR = 337
HG+1 +23 ATK = 354

SUMMARY
NQ HG 281~330 Damage, Average 307
HG +30 STR 291~337 Damage, Average 312.8
HG +1 +23 ATTK 303~354 Damage, Average 328.5


Initial Conclusions
1. Increasing STR does not increase my attack power, at least according to the stat screen, but it does increase your actual damage output (+30 STR gave me a ~1.6% damage increase on auto attack hits)
2. Base damage on the weapon seems to jump your damage the highest. If you have to choose between a double materia +STR NQ weapon versus its +1 counter part, go with the +1 weapon and socket it with 1 materia.

Additional Testing
1. Test a NQ Hart Guisarme with +attack power materia (Heavens Fist)
2. Test damage output on higher level targets to see if the relationships are the same

now test attack power materia vs str materia to see the damage increase

thats where im curious

You forget to test one thing... try fighting mobs of your lvl or higher because what we know already is this:

Lower mobs than you atk power do more dmg but on same or higher not.
Using str on same or higher you do more dmg, while lower mobs you dont do much dmg.

Test that, please. Can be even with ifrit :o

I suspect STR will have a bigger impact when you fight mobs that matter (with higher VIT)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bluetaro

Hey everyone. I did a manual parse comparing three weapons to see which would provide the best damage increase for my character and decided that the information may be helpful to the rest of the community. My targets were brutal sheep in Coerthas and I only recorded numbers against the level 40 sheep.

The 3 weapons I tested were a Hart Guisarme, Hart Guisarme +30 STR, and Hart Guisarme +1 with +23 attack materia.

Unfortunately due to my limited time and budget I could not afford to test a Hart Guisarme (NQ) with an attack materia. If someone would like to contribute to my findings that would be the next step I would test.

My stats:

NQ HG || HG +30 STR || HG+1 +23 ATTK
STR: 278 || 308 || 278
DEX: 222 || 222 || 222
Attack: 497 || 497 || 520

**Note** My attack power did not increase when changing from a NQ HG to a +30 STR version.

Data

Average damage over 1000 hits, auto attacks only, crits excluded
NQ HG = 307.03215
HG +30 STR = 312.78
HG+1 +23 ATK = 328.53

Lowest hit
NQ HG = 281
HG +30 STR = 291
HG+1 +23 ATK = 303

Highest hit
NQ HG = 330
HG +30 STR = 337
HG+1 +23 ATK = 354

SUMMARY
NQ HG 281~330 Damage, Average 307
HG +30 STR 291~337 Damage, Average 312.8
HG +1 +23 ATTK 303~354 Damage, Average 328.5


Initial Conclusions
1. Increasing STR does not increase my attack power, at least according to the stat screen, but it does increase your actual damage output (+30 STR gave me a ~1.6% damage increase on auto attack hits)
2. Base damage on the weapon seems to jump your damage the highest. If you have to choose between a double materia +STR NQ weapon versus its +1 counter part, go with the +1 weapon and socket it with 1 materia.

Additional Testing
1. Test a NQ Hart Guisarme with +attack power materia (Heavens Fist)
2. Test damage output on higher level targets to see if the relationships are the same

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screenshot or it didnt happened!

STR is more valuable than ATK, point-for-point.
Base damage is more valuable than STR.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carraway

STR is more valuable than ATK, point-for-point.
Base damage is more valuable than STR.

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I'll go with you on that carraway, question is, do we have the relationships parsed out yet? Do we know that 4 STR is roughly equal to 1 base damage or w/e it is, or do we still need work done to figure that out.

So to summarise you would use strength materia for endgame content?

That is what every DD do in ifrit. Since atk power dont change much on him. Try just to get gloves over 30 str and you will notice the difference :)

I thought STR increased max damage and ATK P min damage?

Perhaps it does, but it is easier to meet the attack threshold in this game than say, XI.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Majidah

I thought STR increased max damage and ATK P min damage?

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Base dmg > Str > Attack power
Point for point STR is better then attack power, I think the rough ratio is around 2str = 1 base dmg and 3 attack power is 1 base dmg on equal lvl mobs, the ratio for attack power goes down making it less effective the higher the mob.

I have yet to find if using a few select ACC+ equips helps enough to be worth it on stronghold areas.

Also seems that STR+ is further modified when looking at WS's dmg numbers making it even more valuable then attack power.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tachikoma

Base dmg > Str > Attack power
Point for point STR is better then attack power, I think the rough ratio is around 2str = 1 base dmg and 3 attack power is 1 base dmg on equal lvl mobs, the ratio for attack power goes down making it less effective the higher the mob.

I have yet to find if using a few select ACC+ equips helps enough to be worth it on stronghold areas.

Also seems that STR+ is further modified when looking at WS's dmg numbers making it even more valuable then attack power.

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If what you're saying is right; seeing we usually exp against mobs higher than our level, and how all bosses are higher than our level... wouldn't that mean atk power is then pretty useless?
And is there a soft cap on str?

So all In all STR>ATK Power? I should get Strength Materia melded over Heaven's Fist then?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anima

So all In all STR>ATK Power? I should get Strength Materia melded over Heaven's Fist then?

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From the looks of it, that's the route I'd go today. Still curious how stats and abilities will be modified over time however

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tachikoma

Base dmg > Str > Attack power
Point for point STR is better then attack power, I think the rough ratio is around 2str = 1 base dmg and 3 attack power is 1 base dmg on equal lvl mobs, the ratio for attack power goes down making it less effective the higher the mob.

I have yet to find if using a few select ACC+ equips helps enough to be worth it on stronghold areas.

Also seems that STR+ is further modified when looking at WS's dmg numbers making it even more valuable then attack power.

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So, when do the diminishing returns kick in for STR on certain level mobs, because the 2 Lancers that I do Ifrit with do less damage than me overall & I stack attack. And after getting Harpoon my crits go over 1000 vs him so I'm curious when stacking str becomes pointless, or rather how much one should bother stacking before it becomes wasteful.

this test was a failure. Why would you test a +1 with atp instead of another regular hg with atp? Makes no damn sense brah

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hanemakikaze

So, when do the diminishing returns kick in for STR on certain level mobs, because the 2 Lancers that I do Ifrit with do less damage than me overall & I stack attack. And after getting Harpoon my crits go over 1000 vs him so I'm curious when stacking str becomes pointless, or rather how much one should bother stacking before it becomes wasteful.

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Comparing other people's damage against your own on a fight like Ifrit (with its huge potential for variance) is a poor test to establish confidence. Instead, you should be modeling your tests after ones like the OP's.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carraway

Comparing other people's damage against your own on a fight like Ifrit (with its huge potential for variance) is a poor test to establish confidence. Instead, you should be modeling your tests after ones like the OP's.

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Indeed. Personal play style, player skill, ability rotation, and awareness factor in a great deal into how much damage you can do on that fight.

You need to control those variables and keep more things constant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Indeed. Personal play style, player skill, ability rotation, and awareness factor in a great deal into how much damage you can do on that fight.

You need to control those variables and keep more things constant.

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I'm sorry but that made no sense what so ever, we all have the same abilities set, player skill has nothing to do with it as pressing a few cds during the "safe" duration after an erupt/plume and attacking does not take much effort and all of us use them the same given chances, and I dont find the variance that large when you are fully buffed ie ferocity, raging strike blindside all come out usually on averages and are usually the same. And @ Carraway only on rare occassions does our damage sway from the crowd and go farther than usual, and this after about 115ish fights now. The damage is very much not as random you make it sound.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hanemakikaze

I'm sorry but that made no sense what so ever, we all have the same abilities set, player skill has nothing to do with it as pressing a few cds during the "safe" duration after an erupt/plume and attacking does not take much effort and all of us use them the same given chances, and I dont find the variance that large when you are fully buffed ie ferocity, raging strike blindside all come out usually on averages and are usually the same. And @ Carraway only on rare occassions does our damage sway from the crowd and go farther than usual, and this after about 115ish fights now. The damage is very much not as random you make it sound.

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You should be comparing your damage against your own, not others', under the most controlled situation possible.

If you're going to use Ifrit, you need to separate out Doomspike II at each distinct level of TP, which could be 1001 categories, Chaos Thrust <20% at each distinct level of TP, and then regular Chaos Thrusts. You then need to apply rigorous buff selection, looking at Ferocity II + Raging Strike II vs Ferocity II alone vs Raging Strike II alone vs Ferocity II + Raging Strike II + Murderous Intent vs Ferocity II + Blindside II vs Raging Strike II + Blindside II vs Blindside II alone vs etc. etc. etc. etc. And then, on top of that, you need to perform the tests with a control level of STR and ATK, then with increased STR, then with increased ATK. Then, if you want to establish the point-for-point relationship between STR and ATK, you need to start hitting different targeted point values for STR and ATK.

Considering a LNC can fire off a weaponskill about once every 20-25 seconds or so under Ifrit fight conditions, depending on a huge range of factors, it's incredibly impractical to use Ifrit as a test mob. The data would be valuable, but only if it is collected with the rigor I described above.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hanemakikaze

I'm sorry but that made no sense what so ever, we all have the same abilities set, player skill has nothing to do with it as pressing a few cds during the "safe" duration after an erupt/plume and attacking does not take much effort and all of us use them the same given chances, and I dont find the variance that large when you are fully buffed ie ferocity, raging strike blindside all come out usually on averages and are usually the same.

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There is a gigantic, immense, colossal potential for variation there.

Edit: What Caramelway said ^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carraway

You should be comparing your damage against your own, not others', under the most controlled situation possible.

If you're going to use Ifrit, you need to separate out Doomspike II at each distinct level of TP, which could be 1001 categories, Chaos Thrust <20% at each distinct level of TP, and then regular Chaos Thrusts. You then need to apply rigorous buff selection, looking at Ferocity II + Raging Strike II vs Ferocity II alone vs Raging Strike II alone vs Ferocity II + Raging Strike II + Murderous Intent vs Ferocity II + Blindside II vs Raging Strike II + Blindside II vs Blindside II alone vs etc. etc. etc. etc. And then, on top of that, you need to perform the tests with a control level of STR and ATK, then with increased STR, then with increased ATK. Then, if you want to establish the point-for-point relationship between STR and ATK, you need to start hitting different targeted point values for STR and ATK.

Considering a LNC can fire off a weaponskill about once every 20-25 seconds or so under Ifrit fight conditions, depending on a huge range of factors, it's incredibly impractical to use Ifrit as a test mob. The data would be valuable, but only if it is collected with the rigor I described above.

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Both the other 2 Lancers are sitting on 328 STR, or something in 320s, and 520ish attack power. While I'm on 272 STR, 570 attack power. We all only have these skills for "buffs" Ferocity II, Raging Strike I, Blindside I, Murderous Intent (and of course we only do these at 3000tp as we are trying to maximize the damage done). We also pretty much all use these skills at the same times, as in after erupts, when blindsides down murderous intent is used. As for comparing my damage agaisnt my own, trust me I have been watching my damage rise with each weapon upgrade and really, thats the only time I see a significant difference is when my base damage to weapon has risen. But I get where you're coming from, once I get home today I'm probably going to try stacking STR & see what happens. All I really want to do is maximize my damage on high level mobs, you know things that are endgame and such.

bump this post

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manafont

this test was a failure. Why would you test a +1 with atp instead of another regular hg with atp? Makes no damn sense brah

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Heh, I know I know, in my defense I did note in my post that I wanted to test an attack power weapon in the future. The only reason I made this post in the first place was because I came across a retainer selling both the +1 Guisarme and a NQ Guisarme with two 15 STR materia socketed in. After some searching on the web I realized that there wasn't any conclusive data to suggest one weapon was superior over the other so I went ahead and just purchased both and tested them out in the field.

When I get the time I'll add in an attack power weapon for comparison as I'd like to know how close it compares to STR.

lol "Edit: What Caramelway said ^"