Vote Kick penalty

There needs to be one for players who get kicked, sick of tanks asking to be vote kicked because they don't like the dungeon they got on leveling roulette.

Agreed, sick of people asking for a "courtesy kick" in places like Mhach or Primal Fights so they don't get the 30 minute penalty. And when you refuse, they just do nothing so you HAVE to kick them, it's ridiculous. People kicked from groups should get the 30 minute penalty same as those that leave of their own accord.

This is not the first time this has been asked. And the answer is no. Because it would make abusing the votekick even worse.

No there does not. How about those who get kicked for no good reason who are trying their best, I have been in groups where the healer and tank would kick a DPS for being too slow. If you add a penalty it will affect those who don't play as well as others who are trying their best.

I've never seen the vote kick system abused other than for people no wanting to do the dungeon. So we need a solution to two problems instead of just one.

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Originally Posted by Gabrielleblanc

I've never seen the vote kick system abused other than for people no wanting to do the dungeon. So we need a solution to two problems instead of just one.

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I have. I've been trollkicked for no reason before. After said troll tried to kick someone else then accused me of doing it.

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Originally Posted by Gabrielleblanc

I've never seen the vote kick system abused other than for people no wanting to do the dungeon. So we need a solution to two problems instead of just one.

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Just because you yourself have never seen the vote kick system abused doesn't mean it doesn't happen. One player's experiences doesn't equal the whole picture.

I personally have seen the vote kick abused many times over my time playing since 2.0 launch. I also have been kicked out of groups with no indication why from the others a couple of times. For people to get a 30 minute penalty to their game time on the whim of other players is a bad solution. The idea that people will be fair minded just never works because there are always jerks/trolls who will abuse the fact they can ruin another player's game time.

Like I said we need a solution for two problems rather than just the one. Because if you don't kick people when they request it they bomb the run or refuse to do anything until you kick them.

The solution to this problem is to make the game more fun and less of a slog. That's not gonna happen anytime soon though.

If they want to leave, why don't just kick them?

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Originally Posted by Gabrielleblanc

Like I said we need a solution for two problems rather than just the one. Because if you don't kick people when they request it they bomb the run or refuse to do anything until you kick them.

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The solution for that is to report them for refusing to continue their duty, then it depends if you want to sit out for whatever long it takes a GM to reply, once they do the offending player is removed from the duty and put in the GM jail.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

If they want to leave, why don't just kick them?

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If they want to leave they should leave.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

The solution for that is to report them for refusing to continue their duty, then it depends if you want to sit out for whatever long it takes a GM to reply, once they do the offending player is removed from the duty and put in the GM jail.

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I have done that, several times, but most groups would rather disband than wait around.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

If they want to leave, why don't just kick them?

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Why should I waste my vote kick cooldown on someone that has the ability to leave on their own free will?

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Originally Posted by Selsix

Agreed, sick of people asking for a "courtesy kick" in places like Mhach or Primal Fights so they don't get the 30 minute penalty. And when you refuse, they just do nothing so you HAVE to kick them, it's ridiculous. People kicked from groups should get the 30 minute penalty same as those that leave of their own accord.

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They ask for the votekick.
You say no.
They ask why.
You say that you won't waste your votekick for someone who wants to avoid the penalty.
They say that it doesn't cost you anything and that you should do it.
You say no, again.
They start doing nothing and being a dead weight to your party.
You say that if they don't leave themselves or start doing something, you'll report them.

At that point, that person will either leave, argue again while still doing nothing, or start doing their job.
- If they leave: problem solved.
- If they argue again while still doing nothing: report them and try to continue without them. If you can't, kick is your only option, but at least that prick got reported.
- If they start doing their job: watch them closely to see if they're not just pretending. If they are, just don't say anything and kick them right at the very end, because you completly deserve that sweet revenge over that toxic and entitled player. If they truely started playing normally, problem solved.

Here's a scenario for you: BLM gets into a Level 60 dungeon while only just barely meeting the ilvl requirement to be there. He/She knows the BLM rotation, but is doing relatively low dps due to being undergeared, so the tank and healer (who wanted a sub-20m dungeon run) kick him/her for not doing enough DPS, even though he/she was doing good DPS for the ilvl. Yes, that happens. Situations like that are why there shouldn't be a penalty associated with a vote kick.

As for the situation with people asking to be kicked...Report them, then decide as a group after doing so whether to continue with the "dead slot", kick, or wait (yes, right in front of the jerk).

--Erim Nelhah

Uhm? Asking for a vote kick is a reportable offence under griefing tactics "refusal of participation". You are aware of that right? It has been since like 2.4

I should know.

Some turd reported me when I accidentally joined World of Darkness and asked for a courtesy kick (as a DPS) and I got a mark against my account for it.

No, because the people unfairly kicked will eat a penalty thet they don't deserve.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

If they want to leave, why don't just kick them?

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When you use Duty Roulette, you are signing up to complete whatever duty you are given. Otherwise, choose a specific dungeon and forgo the roulette benefit.

This issue is always divisive because the permutations of circumstance are varied. There is not single option that fits all situations.

I have asked for courtesy kicks due to RL reasons (small children). For those that say, I should just leave and take the penalty and attend to RL. My response is, yes I have but there are many RL situations that usually take 5-10 minutes to deal with, and you require me to eat an additional 20 minutes of penalty? That is not fair. I do the following put a brief message and in the chat stating the RL situation and go afk to attend. When I get back I sometimes have a time-out penalty, most of the time I have been kicked.

I have also been the receiver of vote kick abuse.
I have been in parties where vote kick abuse happened.

I would propose a one free duty abandon without penalty each day. This would satisfy players like myself that just have RL come up and get it in the way without being abused overly much by the community as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

If they want to leave, why don't just kick them?

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/thread
/10char

Why should I kick a tank that doesn't want to do the dungeon when they've got the shortest queues?

My suggestion is this.

We have a reason why we're vote kicking. Maybe add a few more options there. Such as: Refusing to participate.

If you're kicking someone for refuse to participate, they get a 5-week penalty from queuing for the duty finder.

If you abuse the kick system and kick someone for refusal to participate, and they were actually participating, which can be automatically detected (doesn't need GM review), then you get a 10-week penalty from queuing for the duty finder.

There, problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Gabrielleblanc

There needs to be one for players who get kicked, sick of tanks asking to be vote kicked because they don't like the dungeon they got on leveling roulette.

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never had this problem on Tonberry.

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Originally Posted by Furiea

never had this problem on Tonberry.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

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Originally Posted by Selsix

Agreed, sick of people asking for a "courtesy kick" in places like Mhach or Primal Fights so they don't get the 30 minute penalty. And when you refuse, they just do nothing so you HAVE to kick them, it's ridiculous. People kicked from groups should get the 30 minute penalty same as those that leave of their own accord.

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I carry them for 30 minutes THEM kick them.
I'm not taking a 4 hour vote-lock penalty if someone isn't willing to take a half hour penalty.

Already suggested that years ago but not as harsh. a 48 lockout on all instances. If you pulled that crap in Aeion Online they automatically lock you out of all instances for 48 hours.

Ive seen people vote kicking in 24 man raid just for fun

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Originally Posted by Gabrielleblanc

I've never seen the vote kick system abused other than for people no wanting to do the dungeon. So we need a solution to two problems instead of just one.

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people kick players all the time just so that they can invite their friend for the last boss.

If they are actively griefing you to push you into kicking them, then they are attempting to abuse the vote kick system and you can report them. If I'm forced to kick someone I wouldn't otherwise use my vote kick on just so they can get past the lockout, then I'd do that.

The whole point behind the 30 minute penalty is to act as a deterrent for chronic rage quitters. If something comes up in real life that forces you to go away, then it shouldn't really affect you that badly because you are (hopefully) not the kind of person that quits on a whim and whatever you are dealing with off the game is far more important than needing to rush back and doing your daily EX roulette grind while going to the forums to complain about how there's nothing to do. Trying to game the system is abuse and is on grounds for being reported and if you do get in trouble for it, surprise surprise, now that 30 minute lockout don't seem so bad compared to a possible temporary suspension from the whole game. Sure, you could have that one party that will kick you if you ask, but don't expect everyone to be just as nice.

Save the vote kicks on people that truly deserve it, not for someone that wants to leave to do a hunt or whatever and wants to avoid a small lockout while the rest of the party now has to wait for a replacement that may or may never come.

I think the 30 min penalty should be based on the reason.Do you know how you click on vote kick.And you get a list of the reason for the vote kick.Like for example clicking on harassment will give that player the penalty while the others reasons do not.Sometimes things happen in real life.So no need to punish those players for kicking them.

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Originally Posted by Luciddreamer

I think the 30 min penalty should be based on the reason.Do you know how you click on vote kick.And you get a list of the reason for the vote kick.Like for example clicking on harassment will give that player the penalty while the others reasons do not.Sometimes things happen in real life.So no need to punish those players for kicking them.

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Only GMs should give any penalty for kicks. Too easy to abuse otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Luciddreamer

I think the 30 min penalty should be based on the reason.Do you know how you click on vote kick.And you get a list of the reason for the vote kick.Like for example clicking on harassment will give that player the penalty while the others reasons do not.Sometimes things happen in real life.So no need to punish those players for kicking them.

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Nope, to easy to abuse there. Like I said before, if you have to turn the game off, then 30 minutes isn't going to kill you because you got more important things to take care of. Remove the penalty and people will go back to cherry picking their dungeons or quit at the slightest thing. If you are that concerned over a small 30 minute timeout every time you have to leave, methinks that you can't prioritize properly or maybe you need to pick a better time to play.

Did you know you can logout and you will be kicked ? rather than whining to the entire group about how bad and inconsiderate you are.

Even if they did as you asked, the person can just logout, period. I've done it a thousand times, bad dps, bad tanks, bad healers, whatever, esc - > logout -> wait a few mins, it's science.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

Even if they did as you asked, the person can just logout, period. I've done it a thousand times, bad dps, bad tanks, bad healers, whatever, esc - > logout -> wait a few mins, it's science.

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Nah, if you are getting vote kicked you would get the penalty if you are kicked even while offline. This would actually discourage this. They could even add this to the server auto-remove if they wanted.

Won't happen though, SE doesn't like innocents getting caught up in stuff like this. There's pros and cons to both ends.

The penalty would remove the spot squatting and fake dc, because penalty if they ask for kick anyways, most people would just leave, try vote abandon or actually deal with it.
On the other hand, people that get troll kicked would get a penalty, and legitimate dcs would get a penalty.

What's the point of holding them with you anyway? Instead of kicking them out, then get a replacement and continue your duty, you'd rather play with one man short and then kick them before the last boss? It'll be your loss instead of the guy sitting at the entrance and probably playing Facebook or something. You think you're punishing them by not kicking them and forcing them to waste their time but they actually don't care. The best solution is kicking them out and move on.

You don't want to waste your kick quota? You SHOULD spend your quota on someone like that. If you don't want to kick an azzhole sitting on the ground doing nothing then who do you want to kick? It's not like you'll meet an ultimate troll every two hours while nobody has a kick quota left.

The abuse of votekick goes both ways to both sides. Be proactive and report it. If the GMs can't handle it on a case-by-case to make sure it's fair play on both sides and the kick was justified, then it's just as much fault on them not being able to police reports as it is the players abusing it, especially those that are being vocal about to get a kick (since at that point, there's no room for discussion)

Honestly, there's really no necessary "good" reason to ask for a vote kick other than the fact you want to bail without a penalty (which is the entire point of said penalty to begin with); don't queue up for a dungeon expecting people to play to savage expectations or a 20 minute run when you have "pressing matters" in the next 25 minutes. Conversely, don't queue up expecting to alt tab more than half the run doing nothing but auto attacks (if you even can do auto attacks) and pulling sub 400 at i220.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

What's the point of holding them with you anyway? Instead of kicking them out, then get a replacement and continue your duty, you'd rather play with one man short and then kick them before the last boss? It'll be your loss instead of the guy sitting at the entrance and probably playing Facebook or something. You think you're punishing them by not kicking them and forcing them to waste their time but they actually don't care. The best solution is kicking them out and move on.

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If a player is willing too just waste time playing Facebook then they'd just leave and take the penalty.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

If a player is willing too just waste time playing Facebook then they'd just leave and take the penalty.

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They can doing so while forcing you to play with one man short so it's more entertaining for them.