Low-level content

Can anyone tell me the point of low level content? Shposhea? Tot-rak? Quests/missions with a low rank requirement? Low level leves? What's the point?

I'm not going to pretend I'm in charge and say "It's way too easy to get to 50". I'm not a dev or one of the cocky 500+ posters that think they know best. I will say that it is very easy to get to 50. With some good parties, you can get there in a week or 2. Once party search shows up, it'll be cake.

So, why, if its that east to get to 50, would the dev team waste resources to implement low level dungeons and quests? 50's blow through that content just to say they got it done. Thats it. Nobody ever says "Yes! I finally hit 25! Let's go to Tot-rak!". The content for levels 1-49 is basically EXPing anyway, and most people only do the other stuff if they can't find a party (which, again, will be fixed soon).

I am a nostalgic, so no need to point that out... But... In the golden days, there were quests and missions that required you need to be a certain level to do, and/or capped you at that level so you weren't gimped trying to get a party for it as soon as you hit that level. Which, by the way, took a lot longer to get to. So, once you'd partied for 5+hours and got yourself from 55-60, you could keep trying to level up, as well as watch for CoP Airship fights that you were now ready for.

I don't see how that wasn't a perfect system. There was some content for low levels, mainly quests and missions, with lots of milestones on the way up that let you interact with high levels without feeling like a loser, but the whole goal would be to get your favorite class up to 75 to get to the REAL content. I spent a good year or so getting my first job to 75 and I thought that was a respectable amount of time, and I had plenty to do when partying wasn't available.

And when it takes that long, you don't just go outside and level another job to 75 when you can't get into some content... You find a way to get included and get your job to work for the situation. Why should I try to get my Arc to work for the Ifrit fight when I can zoom up Lnc within a week or 2 when I really feel it necessary to get the fight done?

I'm not even touching on making the game solo friendly... IMO, my non-humble opinion, there is no room in an MMO for anti-socialists. There should be a couple things to do..farming, crafting, etc... But thats it. You shouldn't be able to get through the whole game solo.

I just don't get it.

tl,dr
Either bring in the FFXI difficulty of leveling, or stop wasting resources on low level content. No reason to give low levels something to do if they're not going to be at that level very long.

Support.

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Originally Posted by Jericho

Can anyone tell me the point of low level content? Shposhea? Tot-rak? Quests/missions with a low rank requirement? Low level leves? What's the point?

I'm not going to pretend I'm in charge and say "It's way too easy to get to 50". I'm not a dev or one of the cocky 500+ posters that think they know best. I will say that it is very easy to get to 50. With some good parties, you can get there in a week or 2. Once party search shows up, it'll be cake.

So, why, if its that east to get to 50, would the dev team waste resources to implement low level dungeons and quests? 50's blow through that content just to say they got it done. Thats it. Nobody ever says "Yes! I finally hit 25! Let's go to Tot-rak!". The content for levels 1-49 is basically EXPing anyway, and most people only do the other stuff if they can't find a party (which, again, will be fixed soon).

I am a nostalgic, so no need to point that out... But... In the golden days, there were quests and missions that required you need to be a certain level to do, and/or capped you at that level so you weren't gimped trying to get a party for it as soon as you hit that level. Which, by the way, took a lot longer to get to. So, once you'd partied for 5+hours and got yourself from 55-60, you could keep trying to level up, as well as watch for CoP Airship fights that you were now ready for.

I don't see how that wasn't a perfect system. There was some content for low levels, mainly quests and missions, with lots of milestones on the way up that let you interact with high levels without feeling like a loser, but the whole goal would be to get your favorite class up to 75 to get to the REAL content. I spent a good year or so getting my first job to 75 and I thought that was a respectable amount of time, and I had plenty to do when partying wasn't available.

And when it takes that long, you don't just go outside and level another job to 75 when you can't get into some content... You find a way to get included and get your job to work for the situation. Why should I try to get my Arc to work for the Ifrit fight when I can zoom up Lnc within a week or 2 when I really feel it necessary to get the fight done?

I'm not even touching on making the game solo friendly... IMO, my non-humble opinion, there is no room in an MMO for anti-socialists. There should be a couple things to do..farming, crafting, etc... But thats it. You shouldn't be able to get through the whole game solo.

I just don't get it.

tl,dr
Either bring in the FFXI difficulty of leveling, or stop wasting resources on low level content. No reason to give low levels something to do if they're not going to be at that level very long.

Support.

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I started reading, then it got too long. But I am a 500+ poster who knows everything and is never wrong.

Salt N' Peppa want you to push push push it real good.

I've been playing since launch, but realistically, about a month after launch, and then again since 1.18 (so 2-3 months total).

My highest combat job is 38, followed by a string of jobs at 20, and some crafting.

I spend a lot of my time doing quests, exploring, goofing off with the LS, etc. The problem with Shposhea is that the gear drops (mostly) suck. While they might be slightly above average, they're easily replaceable by other gear.

Toto-rak gear, on the other hand, is quite good for its level.

And actually, people do say "Yes! I finally hit 25! Let's go to Toto-rak!" The problem is, nobody hears it, and so when they finally get to do Toto-rak, it's typically because a level 50 had mercy on them and rushed them through it. The lack of party search means it's a LOT of effort to get a real party together for something like this.

There is a fair amount of content 1-49 in the form of quests. There should be more content. I'm sure the dev team is working on it. (The fact that class quests stop at 36 seems odd to me)

And I'd disagree about FFXI's "real" content being at level 75. The endgame stuff never interested me; just the missions. While a lot of that you had to be 75 for, you didn't for all of it.

In any case, the dev team said a few months ago that the goal was for it to take several months to hit level cap. The fact levelling is so easy in 1.19a just shows that they overcompensated, and I'd expect an XP nerf in 1.18 as a result.

And finally, I would agree in general the game needs more content. But that's like saying water is wet. We know the game needs more content at all levels... and the devs are working on it. Threads saying "Make more content!" seem a bit pointless to me, because... well... we know they're making more content.

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Originally Posted by Jericho

Nobody ever says "Yes! I finally hit 25! Let's go to Tot-rak!". The content for levels 1-49 is basically EXPing anyway

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There's your problem and solution. Nobody wants to go to Shposhae or Toto-rak because they're out of the way and they don't give good exp or leveling item rewards. So they need to make Shposhae and Toto-rak both accessible and rewarding enough that people would want to do them over regular grindan.

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I am a nostalgic, so no need to point that out... But... In the golden days, there were quests and missions that required you need to be a certain level to do, and/or capped you at that level so you weren't gimped trying to get a party for it as soon as you hit that level. Which, by the way, took a lot longer to get to. So, once you'd partied for 5+hours and got yourself from 55-60, you could keep trying to level up, as well as watch for CoP Airship fights that you were now ready for.

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People did those because they were requirements to get into end-game, not because they LIKED doing them. And every single high level player that had to be ranked down to finish those complained like there's no tomorrow, because it honestly was a bulls*** system. You're confusing something that was imposed on the players for content that players wanted to do.

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I don't see how that wasn't a perfect system. There was some content for low levels, mainly quests and missions, with lots of milestones on the way up that let you interact with high levels without feeling like a loser, but the whole goal would be to get your favorite class up to 75 to get to the REAL content. I spent a good year or so getting my first job to 75 and I thought that was a respectable amount of time, and I had plenty to do when partying wasn't available.

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Perfect system = having content available throughout your whole leveling experience. Perfect system != having content that's imposed on you throughout your leveling experience, or forcing you to RANK DOWN if you're higher level.

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And when it takes that long, you don't just go outside and level another job to 75 when you can't get into some content... You find a way to get included and get your job to work for the situation.

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lmfao, go tell that to all the BSTs and DRGs that were consistently skipped over for basically anything because their class sucked.

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Why should I try to get my Arc to work for the Ifrit fight when I can zoom up Lnc within a week or 2 when I really feel it necessary to get the fight done?

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You're saying that as if LSes in FFXI didn't PL people with lowbie jobs to 75 in a few weeks. When we lost one of our BRDs, we PLed one from 17 to 75 in two and a half weeks.

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I'm not even touching on making the game solo friendly... IMO, my non-humble opinion, there is no room in an MMO for anti-socialists.

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Big difference between anti-social behavior and not wanting to be forced in social situations 100% of the time.

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There should be a couple things to do..farming, crafting, etc... But thats it. You shouldn't be able to get through the whole game solo.

I just don't get it.

tl,dr
Either bring in the FFXI difficulty of leveling, or stop wasting resources on low level content. No reason to give low levels something to do if they're not going to be at that level very long.

Support.

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TLDR: go away fake hardcore FFXI purist. Your type has no room in MMOs anymore.

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Originally Posted by Jericho

Either bring in the FFXI difficulty of leveling, or stop wasting resources on low level content. No reason to give low levels something to do if they're not going to be at that level very long.

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They've added a single tiny non-instanced "raid" for lowbies and two instances and it upset you enough to write six paragraphs worth of whining? There's different players and, as you might guess, they enjoy doing different things. So, yes, let's stop developing low-mid level content because random forum guy thinks it's pointless.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's a great thing to have some random stuff to do when you get bored of leveling.

FFXI clamming for example. :P

alot of people may level quickly to 50
but there will be a ton of casuals come ps3 launch especialy who will take their sweet time doing everything, and may be in range of several of these lower content areas being added for quite a long time

they will end up getting plenty of use

Low level content is incredibly important to retaining players. One of the reasons so many people quit is because they had nothing to do at low levels. While many people on this forum seem content to grind as "content" and as a character experience, the vast majority of MMO players are not content with that and want to have more engaging adventures and things that make the game an actual Final Fantasy experience.

So to answer your question low level content isn't really all that important right now, but once 2.0 hits it will become incredibly important - if not the most important content aspect of 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Jericho

Can anyone tell me the point of low level content? Shposhea? Tot-rak? Quests/missions with a low rank requirement? Low level leves? What's the point?

I'm not going to pretend I'm in charge and say "It's way too easy to get to 50". I'm not a dev or one of the cocky 500+ posters that think they know best. I will say that it is very easy to get to 50. With some good parties, you can get there in a week or 2. Once party search shows up, it'll be cake.

So, why, if its that east to get to 50, would the dev team waste resources to implement low level dungeons and quests? 50's blow through that content just to say they got it done. Thats it. Nobody ever says "Yes! I finally hit 25! Let's go to Tot-rak!". The content for levels 1-49 is basically EXPing anyway, and most people only do the other stuff if they can't find a party (which, again, will be fixed soon).

I am a nostalgic, so no need to point that out... But... In the golden days, there were quests and missions that required you need to be a certain level to do, and/or capped you at that level so you weren't gimped trying to get a party for it as soon as you hit that level. Which, by the way, took a lot longer to get to. So, once you'd partied for 5+hours and got yourself from 55-60, you could keep trying to level up, as well as watch for CoP Airship fights that you were now ready for.

I don't see how that wasn't a perfect system. There was some content for low levels, mainly quests and missions, with lots of milestones on the way up that let you interact with high levels without feeling like a loser, but the whole goal would be to get your favorite class up to 75 to get to the REAL content. I spent a good year or so getting my first job to 75 and I thought that was a respectable amount of time, and I had plenty to do when partying wasn't available.

And when it takes that long, you don't just go outside and level another job to 75 when you can't get into some content... You find a way to get included and get your job to work for the situation. Why should I try to get my Arc to work for the Ifrit fight when I can zoom up Lnc within a week or 2 when I really feel it necessary to get the fight done?

I'm not even touching on making the game solo friendly... IMO, my non-humble opinion, there is no room in an MMO for anti-socialists. There should be a couple things to do..farming, crafting, etc... But thats it. You shouldn't be able to get through the whole game solo.

I just don't get it.

tl,dr
Either bring in the FFXI difficulty of leveling, or stop wasting resources on low level content. No reason to give low levels something to do if they're not going to be at that level very long.

Support.

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I recently came back, and although I was a bit high for Shposhea I ran around in there, killed a few things, and I could see how it is very rewarding for newer players with no gil, no gear, and it teaches them the early part of teamwork. It can provide all of that for them. You are a lv 50 ARC this dungeon was not made for you. Not everyone has a lv 50, and the announcements have brought more people back to play. Leveling isn't very slow, but it's not super fast either. Not everyone has all day to play grinding in a party.

Just because leveling 1-50 doesn't take as long as some players feel it should doesn't mean it should have to be boring.

If I can level my THM in Toto-Rak from 25-33, that's eight levels of having more fun than I would be having in a grind party.

Personally, I hope to see more low level dungeons so that, in the future, I can spend more time in dungeons and less time running back and forth fighting the same mobs over and over again, when the time comes that I have to level GLA to 32 for sentinel or whatever.

One of FFXIs biggest problems was lack of Low Level content.
(1) get people some practice for real endgame content.
(2) have FUN as you level up, rather than just boring tedious grinding.
(3) MOST people who arn't playing now, have probably played another MMO before, and know they want to do something, other than sit in a spot, and kill the same enemies over and over.

What you are suggesting is for a game maker to make an offline RPG, where u grind on slimes from Lv1-50, then FINALLY days later, get to do dungeons, and gain no exp from it.

I tried to get friends to play FFXI, and because Tanaka refused to work on Low Lv content, most of them quit before reaching Lv20.

Tanaka wanted to please those who are already playing, rather than bring in the people who arn't playing yet, or quit.

I DO understand the need to have more content coming, but this game DOES need dungeons for the low levels. (Granted it SHOULD have been out by launch, this way resources are better spent elsewhere.) but this is a mistake that needs fixed, just as much as any other.

I'm sorry for you, and for myself, since I would like to have more endgame content, but I also enjoy my friends playing with me.

(Just to clarify, one of FFXIs BEST features, was NOT raising the Level cap. This way endgame content wasn't just ONE event, but every added event, since launch. Unlike WoW or something, where Raised Level caps made zones empty, and left you with the same 3 raids.)

There is no point to low level content. You can PL to 50 in a handful of days.

Fantastic design. Way to shoot your own beleaguered game in the foot, SE.

Powerlevelling has little to do with it how fast I went 49-50 on leves solo. You might not like the suggestion but maybe XP parties need the nerf if you think it's too fast.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

There is no point to low level content. You can PL to 50 in a handful of days.

Fantastic design. Way to shoot your own beleaguered game in the foot, SE.

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so you are going to PL me for days to 50? Thanks Sir! I never met a kind person like you are!

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Originally Posted by Platinumstorm

Low level content is incredibly important to retaining players. One of the reasons so many people quit is because they had nothing to do at low levels. While many people on this forum seem content to grind as "content" and as a character experience, the vast majority of MMO players are not content with that and want to have more engaging adventures and things that make the game an actual Final Fantasy experience.

So to answer your question low level content isn't really all that important right now, but once 2.0 hits it will become incredibly important - if not the most important content aspect of 2.0.

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So very true.

And yeah, pretty sure XP parties are going to get nerfed in 1.2

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Originally Posted by Aion

so you are going to PL me for days to 50? Thanks Sir! I never met a kind person like you are!

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I was being bitterly sarcastic - not justifying it. Its a killed a huge part of the game.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

Powerlevelling has little to do with it how fast I went 49-50 on leves solo. You might not like the suggestion but maybe XP parties need the nerf if you think it's too fast.

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PLing needs the nerf - not partying. Hell, maybe even partying needs a nerf. Either or its too fast and has in part killed a need to have low level content, killed a need to learn your job, killed the social aspect of grouping together.

The ultra fast leveling in this game brings nothing but poison to the game.

Agreed the super fast lvling and pl'ing is in my eyes and a bunch of new players i've recently brought into the game from WoW none the less, one huge concern. i'm hearing alot of "If i wanted to fly to endgame super fast and sit there doing endgame, I'd stay playing WoW" and yea ive brought 8 ppl since 1.19 and 3 others pre 1.19 and its the same gripe from ALL of them. please SE fix this problem and give more things to do early game, with a longer lifespan of the early to mid game.

Oh gosh, I hate these kind of threads >.>'

A lot of people are NOT at the lvl cap, they won't get there anytime soon, and guess why?
Because they actually want to ENJOY low- and mid-level content!
Neither parties nor Plvling need to be nerfed down.
If you want to grind to rank 50 in two days, you are stupid. Sitting at 50, bored to death, is well-deserved in that case.

Just because some idiots do it does not mean the whole community does it.
And giving us the OPTION to lvl up that fast if we want to is something very important - it's called freedom of choice.
That's something even people should get who are dumb enough to not think about the consequences:rolleyes:

Personally, I enjoy low- and mid-level content.
My LS does, too.
And I know many other players ingame who think the same.
They are happy about the leveling curve, because it means you can get a lvlup fast if you notice you are still not strong enough to..beat Toto-Rak or whatever.
But that's it. If you rush through, you forget about the most important part of a game: the way to the end, not the end itself.

As I've said a time or two, content ought be implemented equally for all levels. There should be just as much stuff to do early, mid, and 'end' game, all striving to be equally fun, for the simple reason that it answers power-leveling by having people deprive themselves of at least two thirds of the fun in order to get to one third faster.

Combine that with a system that keeps the challenge in lower end content, like all dungeons having a hyper mode, or level syncing or something like that, and.. well.

Although I do wish I wasn't ranking up so fast, I admit. I tend to meander through ranks as an aside from just.. doing stuff, and I still feel like the game's rushing me a little bit.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Neither parties nor Plvling need to be nerfed down.

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Instantly bankrupted yourself there.

Anyone who says pl'ing doesnt need to be nerfed is plain indenial. I mean pl'ing FFXI way ok w/e if someone wants to stand out there and cure you and your party for hours to get them lvls or because they cant find a decent healer ok i'll give you that but a party claiming mobs so a lvl 50 mrd or w/e runs in and kills 10+ mobs in a matter of secs is just flat out bad for gaming experience.
I was in a party the other day with my thm and everything was going fine party was fun getting good exp and then someone says "hey my firend coming to pl us" so yea he got there started killing stuff exp chain +13 tons of exp but guess what? was boring as hell I left party and went about my day sorry but i dont play a game to stand there and just get instant lvls while on auto follow or standing afk. and now its like almost all parties I try to join are pl parties. i just ask if its pl now and if they say yes i just say {no thanks}

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

I was being bitterly sarcastic - not justifying it. Its a killed a huge part of the game.



PLing needs the nerf - not partying. Hell, maybe even partying needs a nerf. Either or its too fast and has in part killed a need to have low level content, killed a need to learn your job, killed the social aspect of grouping together.

The ultra fast leveling in this game brings nothing but poison to the game.

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And I also being sarcastic, Cant you tell? lol

okay I'll explain it, PL requires effort, require sacrifice of time. If someone willing to sacrifice his time to PL his friends, so be it, but doesnt mean everybody will do it.

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Originally Posted by Jericho

Either bring in the FFXI difficulty of leveling, or stop wasting resources on low level content. No reason to give low levels something to do if they're not going to be at that level very long.

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Not everyone powerlevels, not everyone joins grind parties. Low level content is for people like me who play for the story, the lore and the overall experience...not just for experience points.

You have your Primal Battles and I have my side quests...There's room in Eorzea for both of us.

I'm new player came across from FFXI and I have to say the tone of people saying low level content is a waste is shocking to me. Any content low medium or high at all is a bonus not a negative, it is optional and it is fun for someone somewhere. Those people who want it gone to me are nothing more than selfish people who I would have nothing to do with in the game itself. So in one way I'm glad they shown their true colours and negative way of thinking because now I can avoid wasting time if ever bump into one in game.

There needs to be more content for all sections from low, medium and high, the more the better in each. I recently even stated there needs to be a vast increase in quests for all levels and classes from beginning to end including things can do together.

Imho if leveling is fast for people then nerf the hell out of PL parties and reduce the exp gained through general normal parties but you do not remove low level content just because some people choose to rush to level cap using PL and such. I think a MMO should take at least a few months to hit level cap and I plan on doing just that enjoying taking it slow. I will NOT take part in any PL or grind parties and I prefer to only party with regards to when I wish to see and explore a new zone or in desporate need of help to do a quest/leve or mission.

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Originally Posted by Aion

okay I'll explain it, PL requires effort, require sacrifice of time. If someone willing to sacrifice his time to PL his friends, so be it, but doesnt mean everybody will do it.

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This is pretty laughable...

I went back and did a lot of the low-rank-requirement stuff after being 50 and still found it pretty enjoyable. The point is to not exclude people who have nothing to do but grind from actually getting involved in the game.

However, the point is by far excluded from the use. A lot of pretty nice filler gear comes out of that content - stuff I can use on any job I level up on in the future that'll serve well through however short or long it takes to get back up there again.

Aaand it's fun? Kind of. That Shposhae key-grind was kind of a pain in the gobbiebags. The process of getting the silver keys to get the silver chest to give me a gold key to get the Haube out of the gold chest alone took about 5 hours. I imagine the mythril/electrum one would have taken a lot longer but I got lucky.

I found Shposhae a good place to exp with a party, lots of mobs and stuff, good for few levels. Problem is party search system because it's hard to find people for this low level content.

I have a pretty good feeling that the next patch will nerf party xp, which in all honesty I can understand why. If they do, fine. If they don't, fine. Leveling is stupid fast, especially when there really isn't all that much to do at fifty. Hell, maybe 1-50 is so fast because 50-XX will be a ton slower. Perhaps, once you get your class to 50, you'll have to start leveling your Job. Who knows, I am interested in seeing how the game unfolds over the next year though.

Personally I prefer leveling in dungeon groups, with multiple bosses and actual drops that will make my character stronger over the grinding parties we have now.

I feel the game should have:
1) the option to level via quests if you want to solo.
2) the option to level via grinding parties like we do now.
3) the option to level via dungeons, with unique bosses and actual gear people will use.
4) the option to power level a friend or LS mate if that's what they wish to do.

Just because leveling to 50 doesn't take as long as you want it to, doesn't mean they should stop developing a nice set of dungeons people can move through on their way to 50. Also note that with each level cap increase the time spent leveling will increase.

No matter what the exp curve is, there will be bitching. Lots of it. If it's too slow, people who validate themselves through the game will feel less special - if it's too slow, the game will simply lose memberships entirely from people without the time or motivation to grind that far because when they get there it [I]won't[/] make them feel special.

How long gratification should be delayed for maximum effect will be different for everyone.

That said, I much prefer the "Western" trend of easily making it to endgame and then grinding endgame for a long time while having a complicated system of "fleshing it out" in other directions than I am the "Eastern" style of having the grind be the path up to simple, repetitive endgame grind.. (Both opposed to the Korean style of both?)

Ahh, yet another one of those "Now that I'm level 50, make it harder for everyone else..."

Or did I miss something?

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Originally Posted by Dalmore

Anyone who says pl'ing doesnt need to be nerfed is plain indenial. I mean pl'ing FFXI way ok w/e if someone wants to stand out there and cure you and your party for hours to get them lvls or because they cant find a decent healer ok i'll give you that but a party claiming mobs so a lvl 50 mrd or w/e runs in and kills 10+ mobs in a matter of secs is just flat out bad for gaming experience.
I was in a party the other day with my thm and everything was going fine party was fun getting good exp and then someone says "hey my firend coming to pl us" so yea he got there started killing stuff exp chain +13 tons of exp but guess what? was boring as hell I left party and went about my day sorry but i dont play a game to stand there and just get instant lvls while on auto follow or standing afk. and now its like almost all parties I try to join are pl parties. i just ask if its pl now and if they say yes i just say {no thanks}

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Same here. I want at least a minimum of challenge in my game. Staring at a wall while being AFK isn't.

They could make low level content worthwhile for everyone if they do gear sync/level capped events where everyone who participates gets transported into an instance portion of the map(kinda like quests do) and have large scale battles where outsiders cannot see you to help the alliance group.

Why would you do this type of content you ask? It would give unique currency that can ONLY be gathered from these events, this currency would also be valid for a wide range of level gaps or simply maybe they could add in rings or other accessories that grow in level kind of like rajas/tamas ring did in XI. SE would have to becareful so that the rewards compliment things that cannot be gained from instant raids or primal fights.

When mr big bad level 50 wants to do something thats level 15 cap then all of his gear is scaled down to level 15 with either materia scaling down or materia just being disabled while having the event buff on. I could also see maybe special craft tools with some exp % bonus on them for crafting or gathering, there is a ton of unique type gear they could make to even attract levels 15-50 to participate in it. The key is there has to be attractive loot for various level groups from 15 to 50 to buy with the currency so that the event is always in demand and not just your average "well, we farmed ours, screw it till the new one gets added!"