I'm a new tank and could use some tips

So I am (still) pretty new to tanking (been using DRK to learn it since its been rather easy thus far, I'm only level 51 almost 52 also got level 30 GLD and level 20 MRD) and have hit a point where the tanking has become... not so obvious.

Tanking in 4 man dungeons is in general easy. Initiate from a distance, gather mobs within limits of the capabilities of the healer and the AoE DPS of the party, group mobs for easier AoE. Ensure mobs are rotated from the party. Keep mobs from spinning so positionals are easy for the DPS to do. Obey boss mechanics. Snag adds as they come. Same for 4 man trials.

I've had people call me a good tank, though I do not think the same honestly.

Dungeons and Trials which involve 2 tanks though confuse me.

My first run of Castrum (main story roulette) the PLD asked me to main tank, so I turned on grit and started grabbing mobs and after they got obliterated by the party I told the PLD that I was new to this run as a tank (it was actually only my 2nd time even doing the run in the first place), so he told me he was taking over as main tank.

I proceeded to go "... and what do I do now?" in my head as I followed his lead, turned grit off for the time being, smacking things like a melee DPS, when adds started spawning during a boss fight I would swap on grit and go gather them up. Or I would go run the opposite direction of the main tank and snag mobs on the other side of the splits and drag them to the main tank to add to the AoE pile.

I admitted to the party I had no clue what I was supposed to be doing. Was told I was doing a good job as off-tank despite not having a clue what I should be doing.

I still do not clearly know what I am supposed to be doing in these duo tank dungeons and trials though. I guess in 3 tank raids I could be leading my party as their particular main tank or something?

In casual content, the second tank is very rarely more than a nerfed dps. Most HM primals, all 8 man dungeons you will just be dpsing. In 24 man content (minus CT), in most situations all 3 tanks have clearly defined targets, but on the boss fights you'll resort to being a dps. It happens.


But that's casual content.

In Midas (non-savage), you start to get taught about things like stacking debuffs (which force tank swaps), mob management (tanking mobs that spawn) and encounter mechanics (which may involve non-damage related mechanics, like leviathan HM/EX).

As we get into more difficult content (such as Ifrit Ex, Titan Ex, Garuda Ex and Sephirot Ex(for example)), we begin to see these mechanics become more central to tank gameplay.
More stacking debuffs (which necessitate a tank swap to survive), more adds (which the MT cannot tank due to the mobs providing buffs to the boss when close) or damage that needs to be split between tanks (i.e. Sephirot's 2 pillars). These give more focus to the mechanics that tanks will have to get used to, i.e. swapping to survive tank busters, managing adds/defensive cooldowns and dealing damage effectively.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TankHunter678

I proceeded to go "... and what do I do now?" in my head as I followed his lead, turned grit off for the time being, smacking things like a melee DPS, when adds started spawning during a boss fight I would swap on grit and go gather them up. Or I would go run the opposite direction of the main tank and snag mobs on the other side of the splits and drag them to the main tank to add to the AoE pile.

---

Pretending to be a melee dps and being ready for tanking mechanics is exactly what an off tank does. Main tanking is similar to tanking the 4 man stuff but there will sometimes be tank swap mechanics.

sounds like you did the exactly right thing and with experience youll be able to just command the run like a boss. Prae amd castrum are weird, depending on how well the tanks do, i often have runs where we take "turns" on the bosses and sac pulls. one sacs the other goes off with party and grabs next group, etc. sac comes back, opens gate grabs boss, next tank sacs next hallway if thats the strat, etc. Sometimes id get a first timer or new tank and just try my best to show them a quick run down of the dungeon, until they get the feel and start freely mob grabbing, etc. As far as how you handled it, it was proper and im sure nobody in the party faulted you for being honest. Like others have said, the ex primals will show you more responsibility as OT and esp midas and more current HW 8 man trials (rav and bismark both keep both tanks busy very often in those fights)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Violette

In Midas (non-savage), you start to get taught about things like stacking debuffs (which force tank swaps), mob management (tanking mobs that spawn) and encounter mechanics (which may involve non-damage related mechanics, like leviathan HM/EX).

As we get into more difficult content (such as Ifrit Ex, Titan Ex, Garuda Ex and Sephirot Ex(for example)), we begin to see these mechanics become more central to tank gameplay.

---

Technically you learn to tank swap during the three first EX (Garu-chan, Frifrit-kun and Titan-tan)
Not in high end content like midas

But at least you speak about tank swap
Because as healer, i killed so many tank that had the nerve to tell me that tank swap was useless and I had only to heal more for it to go...
Which is a no

Outdated content is not the best example of what an "off-tank" should be doing. Sadly, 99% of the current FFxiv community is so over-geared for that content that many of the job requirements have become utterly redundant. So, as far as Castrum goes, you did fine. In fact, you did more than fine because, chances are, rounding up add spawns was unnecessary. To be completely honest, half of your party could have hung back at the entrance and had a smoke break, and you probably would have still cleared the dungeon. It just would have taken a little longer.

In more up to date content, however, you'll find that you have a more clearly defined role to fulfill, and that role will vary depending on the fight. Most often, Off Tanks are responsible for easing the burden of the Main Tank. Sometimes this takes the form as something as simple as tanking any adds that spawn. Sometimes it gets a bit more complicated, requiring Tank Swaps, Split Mechanics, Soak Mechanics, or specific tasks that need to be completed. For your reference:

• Tank Swaps: Exactly what it sounds like. You use provoke to swap positions with the Main Tank. You become Main, and the previous Main becomes the Off Tank. This is usually done because of scaling damage caused by stacking vulnerability debuffs; though, it can be for other reasons, such as temporary swaps to avoid Tank Busters on the Main Tank or specific status effects.
  
  Remember to always follow a Provoke with an enmity strike of some kind. Voke only gives you +1 enmity over the Main Tank, so they can easily, and accidentally, take enmity back if you don't prep for the swap correctly. The results can be disastrous.
  
  
• Split Mechanics: Mechanics of the fight which require Tanks to divide tasks between themselves, splitting the responsibility in some way.
  
  This can tank many forms. Most commonly, the Off Tank will have to tank Adds either away from or on top of the boss, depending on if there is any proximity penalties (ie: boss gets buffed if adds are too close). In some cases, however, there will simply be no boss to tank, and both tanks divide the adds between them (similar to A2, in the first set of Alexander Raids). In others, the Boss will leave the arena and both tanks will split up the spawning adds (such as in Thordan Extreme, where the Tanks have to keep an add a piece and split them as far away from each other as possible). In other cases still, there won't be any adds at all, and the tanks have to split up to deal with specific mechanics. An example of this is standing within meteor AoE's to negate the damage to the party. This last type can be tricky if there are more mechanics to deal with than there are Tanks, so sometimes Dps will have to "paper tank" and help out.
  
  
• Soak Mechanics: Very simple. You basically stand in something intentionally in order to spare the hit to someone else. Often, this will be a specific AoE's, such as meteors, conviction towers, etc. with a pretty easily identifiable tell. However, sometimes it can a Tank Buster which is too strong to solo-tank. Ravana Ex's Blinding Blade or Brute Justices's Rocket Punch are such examples. Some of these moves (such as Rocket Punch) are easily identified because they have a cast bar you can see. Others, such as Ravana's Blinding Blade, do not, so you actually have to memorize when the attacks happen in the boss's rotation and act in advance.
  
  
• Other Tasks: Could be anything. There have been fights that require tether drags, AoE kiting, and even interacting with specific objects (such as tower switches in the King Behemoth fight of Crystal Tower). Not all of your Off Tanking responsibilities will be directly relating to the Main Tank, either. Sometimes you'll have to coordinate with the Dps or Healers. Each fight is different, so you'll have to learn as you go.

Most of the A Realm Reborn party requirements can be bypassed because the average item level is much higher than required, but more current content will require a proper division of roles. What it will really come down to is getting more experience with different types of fights and mechanics, so that you know what to expect when you get to the current level of content. Many of these mechanics repeat in future fights, just with different visual cues. So you'll be able to anticipate your job based on past experiences. Even if you watch video guides in advance of actually attempting a fight, you'll be able to recognize certain mechanics easier if you've seen a previous incarnation of it before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nekotee

Technically you learn to tank swap during the three first EX (Garu-chan, Frifrit-kun and Titan-tan)
Not in high end content like midas

But at least you speak about tank swap
Because as healer, i killed so many tank that had the nerve to tell me that tank swap was useless and I had only to heal more for it to go...
Which is a no

---

You're more likely to do midas normal than 2.xx primals if you start tanking these days, so this was written to a 3.xx new tank not a 2.xx new tank.

Not to mention 2.xx primals non-synced are much harder than alexander normal fights. And ifrit/totan/levi/ramuh/shiva/moogle all have tank swaps and can get wiped unsynced if people are unaware.

So don't worry, between my and februs's explanations we'll teach OP gud

Yeah well 1000% ok
This explanation should be shared to everytank who go in the raid content
This is wonderfully explained

I do forgive a tank who try and fail because he didn't grasp the right timing
I do not forgive and will be willing to neglect a LAZY tank who give out his work to other (aka the heal)

The only advice i will give from my point of view is :
Cherish your heal, because he is the one handling your butt
Be Nice and it will be patched, be harsh and you will get it cash...

...

In fact also sync old content is kind of a good way of train hard XD
Because there is no mistake allowed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nekotee

In fact also sync old content is kind of a good way of train hard XD Because there is no mistake allowed

---

It's for this reason that I really appreciate the 2.x content. The older generation of tanks have a big advantage over the current generation of tanks, because the fights were harder and required more attention. A testament to the quality of those fights is that it is still possible to wipe them to this day, even unsync'd, if you don't do the mechanics. Anything with a ring-out (Titan, Levi, T5/9 etc), for example, will wipe a group if they don't know what they're doing. The same goes for any one-shot mechs (such T9's golums). The old gen of tanks got to experience that learning curve first hand, but newer tanks will be lucky to even play the coils, thanks to dead queues. It kind of makes me wish that SE would implement some kind of weekly bonus to try and inject some new life into those old raids.

Purely depends on what specifically you are tanking for really. In castrum and prae, it's gotten to the point where it might as well be a 4 man dungeon... People are only interested in blasting through it for their roulette (mostly... it's always sad when a new player is finally there and can't enjoy it because everyone else is rushing). But overall, the design of those two were very flawed and SE altered all updates moving forward so similar things didn't happen. But if you do go back, pretty much, as OT, you're just another melee DPS. Most ignore adds honestly and just wail on the boss, then proceed to grab everything and run through. On Prae, MT usually grabs mobs and holds their attention so everyone else can get through teleports without having to kill or worry. Speeds the run up a bit.

Most will do their ex trials unsync'd now-a-days for pony/bird farming. These are hardly a challenge and often times, are pre-builds that don't even need another tank. 1 healer and 1 tank are usually enough and then everyone else melee's. If you go in sync'd however, every single one differs in how it should be done. But most common things that are needed by OT's are tank swaps and multiple bosses that must be separated. Tank swaps usually occur because of stacked debuffs that come from the boss. MT will become very vulnerable to damage and need to switch so that he doesn't die from a tank buster. Essentially, if you see that stacks of something is being placed on your MT, look for a long drawn out move/gesture that could be a tank buster. Ramuh Ex is a very good unsync to practice for tank swapping. It will FORCE you to pay very close attention to everything going on the entire time as well (but overall, extremely tough sync'd even for experienced tanks as it requires entire team to understand mechanics well, not just 1 or 2 individuals). Very often, it's a tank swap (which in many instances, can be ignored due to our gear being so OP now along with good use of defense CDs). Also note, for some of these things, you can ignore the swap mechanic if you have a PLD as they can use cover to soak the damage for you instead. Very useful for things like Seph or A5N.

Then there's things like A1N or Coil where another boss will come/split off and the OT needs to pick one up. On these, you'll usually want to have an understanding with your MT prior on who's taking what... Otherwise, things can get dicey if you're both fighting for the same boss and the other one is running amock.

There's a few other things to pay attention to as well, such as Ravana Ex where the OT needs to help soak the tank buster dmg with the MT, but those are less common and usually, it's the whole team that stacks to absorb the dmg for these instances, not just the OT.

As for the 24 man raids, aside from the 1st crystal tower (forgot the actual name), every alliance will have 1 tank, so essentially, each alliance's tank will be in charge of that team for holding aggro. For Void Ark, USUALLY people will mark where each alliance should go (if multiple tanks are needed) and that'll be where you go. But even a majority of the VA boss fights only require 1 tank to be MT and the rest just DPS. Learning the mechanics of each fight will vary though. Each are different in their own way and I would suggest taking the time to properly learn each as it will help you become a better player. Too many now-a-days just tank and spank all past instances because it's quicker.

When you get to end content though, look for learning parties. You can watch vids and such, but actually doing the fight itself is so much more valuable to you learning. It's more so memorization of specific things. Sometimes you gotta move to specific places to avoid dmg, other times it's about knowing when to best use your CDs and take the dmg (as well as where to point them).

@everything Februs said:

I feel old now e.e

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Violette

@everything Februs said:

I feel old now e.e

---

Lol. Sorry >.>