Issue's With Current Cross-class System
Most players like myself do not like having are playstyle drawn out for us. I like do things cause want not because well i have too. with current system way it is there are abilities that a player "Has" to get for them being any good "Swift-cast" from black mage "Blood for Blood" from Dragoon/lancer and "Provoke" from paladin.
other side we have abilites that are so bad. that be have be complete idiot to have them on your hotbar or just plan trolling
with that being said. this idea I have will fix all that.
Before players start get upset i want you to know everything you fixing to lose out on. you get something better if not stronger. so don't really lose anything you gain more
For Starters...
All Current Cross-Class abilities are removed. only classes that can use them is class that uses them. then add
Combat Study
Combat Study works like this "Lets say your favorite class is a conjurer" but you also have a level 5 Thaumaturge and level 5 Arcanist this unlock 3 opinions only get to choice 1 but you can also switch this opinion at anytime. suit the situatio
How did you unlock them
Very easily actually even tell you in "Combat Study Interface"
By leveling a supportive job to your current job every 5 levels you unlock an ability
each job has 2 supportive jobs so if you have both of them at lvl5 you also unlock a new trait
these traits you get to choice from rather you want a new passive or new ability on your hotbar it is completely up to you
Conjurer Ability
" Raise II" - Instant Cast (60 seconds CD)
"Combat Study" From leveling Arcanist to level5
"Water"- Instant cast- Deals 120 Potency damage (Restores MP equal to Damage 100% of damage Dealt "Combat Study From Leveling level 5 Thaumaturge
Trait - MP Reduction Reduces the MP Cost of Cure,Cure II,Cure III and Raise by 15% level 5
any point of game you can switch or select only one of these abilitys or traits
How many combat studies does one class have
total of 9 each study has 3 abilities each
lvl5
lvl10
lvl15
lvl20
lvl25
lvl30
lvl40
lvl50
lvl60
can any other class use another classes Combat Study
No they cannot each class has there own Unque Combat Study, every own unque ability only have access to these Unique Abilities is by leveling supportive classes
No Cookie Cutter Very Hard Choices
Abilities traits you get are so equil in power at times you ask yourself watch ability is better. be honest i feel this question should be found out for yourself. non of these abilitys/traits feel weaker or not have use. these studies are very situation. where some may feel easy wise one boss but next boss it might not be so smart to use. this why you have freedom to switch these abilities at any given time as long your not in combat!
Would be nice if they added 4th one for pvp
one step at a time please i would think this would be cool too. but we don't want mix pve skills with pvp
Summoner/Scholar
Summoner/Scholar share the same Unique Study unitl lvl30
"Swift Recall"
Instant Cast "Your Next Pet or raise a player"
Additional Effect: player or pet becomes enraged gains 50% damage and healing increase for 12 seconds
Warrior/Dark Knight
Warrior probably get a provoke like ability that also increases there damage
where
Dark Knights Gains Provoke that drains the targets MP
Broken down
I break it down so you all understand it. let it sink in
Its a Skill-Tree System . where abilities and traits unlock by leveling other classes. and its very easy to use and you can use it anytime, this is gonna require a-lot of hard cause totally new interface then current final fantasy has. watch is completely inky
(New CC System "Combat Study"
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05-25-2016, 11:57 PMZodathria123(New CC System "Combat Study"
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05-26-2016, 12:12 AMLegion88
Okay, i have a few questions and suggestions to your ideas^^
Really anytime? I think i know what you like to say but i suggest you to clearify this. I would suggest to change this to "out of duty" or "out of fight".Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodathria123
Okay, actual system "force" you to level the secondary classes up to level 42 in the worst case to get all CC skills. Your System will "force" players to level their secondary classes up to level 60. Not really the better solution but i think this will be outwight by the quality of the CC skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodathria123
To be honest i don't like skill tree systems, just for the sake of a skill tree system or complexity or faked possibility of choice. There will always be a "best" way and people will find it and force you to take it. It can just be fearmongering, but it's more a question of balancing like the "change anytime".Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodathria123
My own break down
Less choice is more choice. Reduce the choice to fixed levels, maybe like on level 15, 30, 50 and 60 you will get one skill/trait choice for every secondary class on this level and an additional choice if you have both secondary classes an that level, and on the other levels you only get one skill or trait if you have 1 or both secondary classes leveled. -
05-26-2016, 01:13 AMKitano123
Skill trees don't work its an illusion of choice. How many times can it be said?
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05-26-2016, 02:07 AMZodathria123I believe in power of personal choice. don't believe on fake choices. also do not believe in having everything squire 1 planed out for me giving me no choice. yes theres always gonna be those people out there gonna say this choice is better then that choice, in the end your choice as a player to make. can easily change your mind "Out of fight" or "Out of duty" to whatever abilities suit your playstyle. not cause someone with there own personal opinion says this ability is superior to this ability. but that ability does not fit your desired play-style.Quote:
Originally Posted by Legion88
if there is gonna be somewhat of skill-tree system. then abilities 100% opinion-based. and everyone of them equilly as strong as one another not single one stands out over the others, also must take in the fact the player will find themselfs in many different dangerious situations. what ability better suited for this current situation. whole concept of this system in general make the player plan and think before hand before engaging the enemy
lets say you face strong boss or <S> rank fate you know what this boss capable of you. but now choice what abilities feel is best. I want i don't want see is what you don't see . having other people telling other people please follow me this how should play..
concept of this is that they cant ability may be good for someone else may not be good for playstyle
either way current cc system is awful. its feels like it made by a child and is completely derpy what makes it worse is this from squire enix. well known game-business company known to make quality games (only quality game they realised of late is bravery second bravery default and final fantasy 14 only gets on this list cause amount of detail they put into there grafics. but game mechs is still somewhat derpy
To be honest i don't like skill tree systems, just for the sake of a skill tree system or complexity or faked possibility of choice. There will always be a "best" way and people will find it and force you to take it. It can just be fearmongering, but it's more a question of balancing like the "change anytime". -
05-26-2016, 02:17 AMRakiria
This would, as previously mentionesd, only cause one to do way more leveling. Also It's a ton of work for the game designers to balance it all in a way that there's actually a choice. Someone has to do that too, Ideally without having to change the complete mechanics of that class. CC skills are not a need to have thing. Maybe when you're raiding, but I think, especially from people wanting to do high-level content, it can be expected to go a little out of your way to unlock them.
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05-26-2016, 02:42 AMZodathria123"CC Skills are not a need to have things" um I hate say this what game are you playing. a tank without provoke isn't a tank at all, try tanking without provoke. try healing without swiftcast huge try being arcanist without swiftcast, makes live so much better. thats is a the problem these skills are too powerful as is. if they take them away. raids and everything lose huge boost. not mention blood for blood what it does for dps classes who can use it these are abilities are "huge!" but cause there over usefulness that this becomes a problemQuote:
Originally Posted by Rakiria
other "cc" abilities are awful. fact is they did awful job with this "cc system" it same thing my little brother can do on "RPG Maker" this is not something you would expect from a company makes brilliant games
everything else in this game is beautiful somethings completely and utter lazy on. yes this would a-lot of work but was something should of done from the start. if they take time enchance cc system some way this would increase game quality by alot
also "cc skills gives the avenage player a sense of progression and achievement hence making more game more fun for all level not just end game.
its why suggested so many different cc skills every 5 levels 30 then what would happen is you know players could enjoy the game really no reason to rush to 60 because all there is in end game is trails. there is no rush to get cc skills i suggested either. but gives player something to explore and have fun with for all levels not just for
its like everytime i see savage blade as cc skill my brains start dieing -
05-26-2016, 05:30 AMWelsper59You're falling into the delusion that people don't follow cookie cutters when it comes to endgame. There will always, without fail, be a "best" way to spec your class/job/whatever when customization is a thing. The freedom of choice is non-existent when someone expects you (or the tool) to perform at the best it can be. When you look at a job such as BRD, they must be equipped with DEX, as that is their primary stat. If they expect the best output, they must gear towards that and whatever secondary is most beneficial to perform at their best or, in some cases, even decently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodathria123
Mathematics, when it comes to customization, will typically point out what is "best". There is no way around that. Likewise, even if another way to customize was considered "just as good", the players will not see it that way. There will always be a hands down perception about what should be done. Again, there is no way around that when it comes to output performance. Of course, just as it is now, someone could deviate from that and do whatever the hell they want. It definitely doesn't go over well with their peers though .
WoW's current spec/talent tree is a decent example of a game with "choice" in some areas. That choice however is in reference to rather useless abilities compared to the others. Those being things like vanity or QoL improvements outside of party situations. The other options are regarded as mandatory if you expect the (potentially) best output.
What you're asking for is a strict homogenization. There can be literally no difference between any ability (or job) in order for something to be 100% opinon based, outside of visual differences like animation. This is a game where people want to be different, but they also want to be treated equally. That difference comes at the cost of true freedom of choice however, in the name of balance. When people want to have options and know that there is a "best" route to take (e.g. DPS rotations or priorities), that choice already becomes hindered. We want complexity in our games, which is what such things do, since it means you can't just mash random buttons/keys and expect to be the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodathria123
I get that part of what your goal is is the ability to customize to the point that you can have something like an accuracy build for one fight, then freely switch to straight damage output/mitigation/healing (depending on role) for another. That, however, is an argument that is not suited for cross-class discussion, since gear is your biggest modifier in games like this. That's an argument for stat changes/updates and such, which is something some of us have been wanting for a long while.
You are right, however, about the cross-class system being short sighted. Its limiting factors almost make it about as diverse of a selection as our bonus stat point distribution. It is, however, a system that will always have a best route to take. The opinions come in whether or not its important to be that way for said content, and that is entirely on the players, not the devs. -
05-26-2016, 05:58 AMZodathria123
I agree with you totally was thinking about being making a post about how deverse and stat point distribution. again this something we have fake choice about, instead tommorow gonna flat out jump on raid finder
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05-26-2016, 06:08 AMKazrah
I have a question: if you don't want players to rush for it, then why did you set the limit at max level? That's sorta like telling a dog to take their time in fetching the ball: it either rushes for it as fast as it can or it just doesn't bother fetching it. Same rule applies to players leveling a job for a current CC skill: they either beeline it to the level of whatever that cross-class skill is, or they just pick up a job where they don't need that CC skill.
The only real drawback I see is that it'd be an absolutely massive systems overhaul for another CC system that doesn't really solve the problem of people feeling like they HAVE to level a class or job solely for CC skills (because it'll happen no matter how many times you say "you don't have to"). -
05-26-2016, 06:53 AMZodathria123but you see thats always a thing progression should be rewarded no? new skills its exciting. yes its alot of work but at least they are getting rewarded with awesome skills current cc system. skills are so crapy that defeats the effort. my cc gives player candy. current cc system throws tards at them see my pointQuote:
Originally Posted by Kazrah
players get new toys mess around don't you want see what they are like. look at it like this
you got new toy aka skill dont want play around with it before jumping for second one -
06-05-2016, 11:02 PMKazrahProgression should be rewarded, but the reward should suit the progression. The progression required is equivalent to running a marathon for a reward that is a plate of melted chocolate. It's the exact same case as the relic weapon, where you have to do way too much for a weapon that is just as good as something you could buy in a fraction of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodathria123
I do like this idea since it promotes people trying other jobs in the game, but the rewards need to be something less game-breaking (including non-combat stuff) while keeping the progression part to something more reasonable for those who don't have the time to level every job in the game. -
06-05-2016, 11:12 PMTankHunter678
I believe a better idea to unlocking skills seen as necessary for cross class skill list, without leveling classes you do not want to level, would be to introduce "skill books" which you purchase and then read. Adding the skill to the cross class list, however the skill still has to be earned for the class it comes from normally.
This way if you really do not like Dragoons/Lancer you can purchase the Blood for Blood book to learn it instead. -
06-05-2016, 11:40 PMOranKells
Yeah this would also just create an illusion of choice. Its very hard to balance these things to make your choices meaningful, 9 times out of 10 there is either a correct best choice or simply no point in choosing at all.
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06-05-2016, 11:49 PMKabzy
I am not in favour of this. A lot of people will choose a job because it seems cool, but later on decide to main something else because they were forced to try out different classes for cross-class abilities. Also, with this system, people would have no incentives to explore other roles, and as such their understanding of them would be very limited.
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06-06-2016, 01:25 AMSpiritMuseI started out as a THM, and in order to unlock BLM I had to level archer. Which I enjoyed so much that I ended up leveling it all the way. Of course, in order to unlock BRD I had to level lancer. Which I enjoyed so much that I ended up leveling it, too, all the way. I now have everything bar 2 jobs to 60 and am working on the last two. And with each job leveled I became a better player overall due to increased understanding of what all the other jobs in the party did and how to play into that effectively. I am currently a tank main, which is about the furthest you can get from a squishy BLM. XDQuote:
Originally Posted by Kabzy
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06-06-2016, 01:37 AMSeraphix2407Blade and soul is cool and isn't really an illusion. Many fights there requires different skills but also many uses different builds in the same fight, it's all up to the player how they want to play(playstyle. I do agree, most of the situation it's more about ''this build or you don't do it at all''. Oh well. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Kitano123
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06-06-2016, 01:44 AMFelisDo you get a ilevel 240 weapon from another place than Anima and Midas? I'm sure for the Lore weapon upgrade you have to still run Midas SQuote:
Originally Posted by Kazrah
Topic:
How about changing it a bit back to the 1.x system
more freedom again, less restriction (only the jobskills should be exclusive), let the player choose what skills they want from the other classes.
Only condition: you have to level up the other class to the level where it learn the skill you want. -
06-06-2016, 10:03 PMKazrahActually I was referring to the 210 stage. That's just grinding for the sake of grinding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
Back to the main topic, I think I'll just stick to the idea of baking cross-class skills into other abilities and giving some other minor perk for leveling other jobs.