New relic anima weapon

Hello everyone, I'm a returning player just wanted some clarity. The Hauteclaire is a item level 200 weapon, but the animated version is item level 170? so when upgrading it from antiquated to animated it loses strength and item level but gains it back when its awoken? am I understanding this right? thanks for all your help and support guys when you comment

The Antiquated and Animated weapons are rather different.

Antiquated weapons are obtained by trading in tomestones and are just that - antiquated relics. You can power them up to i210 with Illuminati Gobdip, obtained by winning one in A4S or by trading a Mhachi Farthing for it.

Animated weapons are "ensouled" weapons; that is, they have pseudo-souls installed in them like golems. They share models with the Antiquateds, but are created by using an Astral Nodule and Umbral Nodule. The exact creation process is unknown, but they merely look identical. Once you get to the Awoken state, they take on a glow effect, and past that have a unique weapon model (Anima Weapon).

Essentially, they're not the same weapon, even though they look identical.

Yeah the weapon is basically just a 'body' Gerolt builds to house the soul. After that the power comes from the soul becoming conscious. Later they need to change the 'body' of the weapon (which is why we get a new model) because the original shape cant handle the growing power of the soul.

I'm still unclear what's the difference between your previous Zeta relic and this

I'm guessing our Zeta relic wasn't self aware because it was raised as a soul sucking murder tool where as this one is treated more like a person?

Gerolt used an old reject from Rowena's warehouse as the base, and maybe broke something (or two somethings) while powering it up with the nodules. S[kupo!] happens. He was drunk, and it wasn't on the good stuff.

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Originally Posted by Kotori_Southburd

I'm still unclear what's the difference between your previous Zeta relic and this

I'm guessing our Zeta relic wasn't self aware because it was raised as a soul sucking murder tool where as this one is treated more like a person?

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The soul-sucking murder tool isn't the whole story...

As explained in the Zodiac Zeta quest, the drawback with the Zeta is that it's attuned specifically to you. That is to say, only you can use it on the level that makes it legendary. To anyone else it's just another weapon, but because your soul is so attuned to it, it's like an extension of yourself. Another extremity, so to speak. (Just one for cutting people and cutting people ONLY.)

The Anima weapons are supposed to have this flaw removed. As opposed to being an extension of the attuned wielder's will, they are designed to possess true sentience and be suitable for market. (Whether or not this actually comes to pass...)

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Originally Posted by Kotori_Southburd

I'm still unclear what's the difference between your previous Zeta relic and this

I'm guessing our Zeta relic wasn't self aware because it was raised as a soul sucking murder tool where as this one is treated more like a person?

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To add on to what Cilia said, there's another key difference between the Zeta weapon and the Anima relic, and that's the one of sentience versus sapience.

If I recall correctly, the Zodiac weapon was sentient, which means it had the capacity "to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively".

The Anima relic, on the other hand, is sapient. It's potentially capable of independent thought, and applying knowledge to its actions.

Unlike the Zodiac relic, the Anima weapon is literally just the body of a living entity, albeit artificially created.

In the case of my character, Lyland, I've even gone the extra step of "naming" the Anima soul. Because, hey, it's literally the ghost in the shell. It deserves an identity of its own. :p

The anima weapons are strongly similar to these.

http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Zanpakut%C5%8D

^ Actually, I think the zanpakutō are more similar to the Zodiac weapons, because they are sentient (to be sure, I now recall that the more advanced versions of zanpukuto also had distinct souls; so, my apologies, you're not that far off-target).

In my opinion, a better anime analogy for the Anima weapons would be the demon weapons of Soul Eater. The weapons in that manga/anime series were literally characters in their own right, each of them paired with a particular user. For example, the lead character Maka Albarn is paired with her scythe, Soul Evans.

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

^ Actually, I think the zanpakutō are more similar to the Zodiac weapons, because they are sentient (to be sure, I now recall that the more advanced versions of zanpukuto also had distinct souls; so, my apologies, you're not that far off-target).

In my opinion, a better anime analogy for the Anima weapons would be the demon weapons of Soul Eater. The weapons in that manga/anime series were literally characters in their own right, each of them paired with a particular user. For example, the lead character Maka Albarn is paired with her scythe, Black Star.

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Maka is actually paired with Soul Eater Evans. Besides that, mostly right.

I wouldn't compare either the Zodiac or Anima weapons to a zanpaku-to. They both have some elements of one, but lots of fiction has sentient / ensouled weapons.

What makes a zanpaku-to unique is that they all start out with the base form known as an asauchi. This is actually their most powerful state, since they have limitless potential. However, each Soul Reaper that goes to the academy is given an asauchi that, through repeated use, they imprint their soul on, defining its form and abilities. A Soul Reaper's zanpaku-to is thus a reflection of their soul.

A Zodiac Zeta is somewhat similar, but less specified to the user. It's a weapon that is already defined by its vessel and, aside from presumable ease of use, does nothing to enhance its wielder's abilities. Zanpaku-to generally grant their user some superpower or have a unique effect that enhances their wielder's combat ability, given the weapon in question is literally a part / reflection of themselves. A Zeta, by comparison, is rather blasé, being little more than an easily-wielded weapon that glows. (Given this isn't an action game, we can't gauge how useful they actually are beyond stats... which were impressive for when they were released.)

I'd actually say the Anima Weapon is closer to the zanpaku-to than a Zeta, though for shaky reasons. Like zanpaku-to spirits, the spirit of the Anima Weapon has yet to appear to anyone other than us, suggesting it may be unable to do so (Ardashir chalks it up to the spirit being shy, but...). There's also dialogue about how our wielding it is imprinting our soul onto it, rather like the asauchi processing. However our weapons already had defined forms limiting their abilities (the base Antiquated weapon), and again, given this isn't an action game we won't ever know if they grant us any kind of special powers. Unlike a zanpaku-to, Anima weapons are implied to possess sapience - that is, the ability to think and reason for themselves - while zanpaku-to spirits typically only say things their owners already know but don't want to admit (making them kind of like a psychological shadow archetype, but that's a different story).

I've not read or watched Soul Eater; the only shounen I still read is Bleach, and only for closure. As such I'm not in much of a position to make a comparison.

... enough rambling about sentient weapons for 'ya?

God can you just imagine each person having a different power/weapon form? Oh well it's nice to dream.

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Originally Posted by Jamillion

Maka is actually paired with Soul Eater Evans. Besides that, mostly right.

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Dang, yes, of course. It's been a long time since I watched the anime.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

I've not read or watched Soul Eater... As such I'm not in much of a position to make a comparison.

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The only thing you'd need to know is that the "weapons" in Soul Eater are actual individuals with moral autonomy. Their users need to achieve a certain amount of "soul resonance" with their weapons in order to use them effectively. That's why I think they're a better analogy for what the Anima weapons are shaping out to be.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

The spirit of the Anima Weapon has yet to appear to anyone other than us, suggesting it may be unable to do so (Ardashir chalks it up to the spirit being shy, but...)

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It's interesting that the achievement title for completing this phase of the Anima weapon is "The Noumenon". It took me a while to come up with a satisfactory theory as to why this particular term from Western philosophy was associated with the Anima soul.

Long story short, the noumenon was a term coined by the Enlightenment philosopher Immanuel Kant. It refers to the "thing-in-itself", in contrast to a phenomenon, which is the "thing we perceive through our senses".

Essentially, Kant argued that there are things that are forever beyond our ability to perceive (the noumenon), but we are nonetheless able to "know" the "thing-in-itself" because it has a physical counterpart, whose properties we can physically experience.

A useful analogy would be to imagine a person who was born blind. Such a person cannot "know" about the Sun the way a person with sight would "know" the object. For example, the blind person has no knowledge of the concept of sunlight, brightness or colour. But he could nonetheless still "know" about the Sun, because he's capable of experiencing the phenomenon of heat and warmth, which come from the thing-in-itself that we know as the Sun.

Now, to bring this back to the Anima weapon, Ardashir has indeed successfully created the artificial soul he's been dreaming of. But what is a "soul"? Does it have a tangible reality separate from its body? The intuitive answer is "No". When it comes to real people like ourselves, when we die, our souls die with us (in FFXIV, the aether returns to the lifestream).

So how does that explain what the Warrior of Light is now able to perceive, the soul in the weapon? I believe that's because of the personal link — or "soul resonance" for lack of a better term — the WoL shares with the weapon. It's a physical property that's accessible only to the WoL and, in that sense, it's only the WoL that can empirically claim that the soul (the-thing-in-itself) exists. Hence, the "Noumenon".

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

The only thing you'd need to know is that the "weapons" in Soul Eater are actual individuals with moral autonomy. Their users need to achieve a certain amount of "soul resonance" with their weapons in order to use them effectively. That's why I think they're a better analogy for what the Anima weapons are shaping out to be.

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But the weapons in Soul Eater (relax, it's an S-E property), start out as humans and learn how to turn into weapons at DWMA. I'd say our Anima Weapons are actually much closer to the box weapon animals from Katekyo Hitman Reborn!, but that's an old reference now. T^T

The empathic weapon is a pretty common trope, though, so it can be matched up to almost anywhere, with varying degrees of success. FFXIV's isn't really ripping anything off so far, so much as working in a very well-worn genre.

I just hope we get to keep this little guy/gal in some open-ended capacity, and the next relic quest won't require us to kill them to proceed, with a dramatic farewell and ironically upbeat music playing in the background like the sound team didn't get the memo that Serah is dying on the floor.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

But the weapons in Soul Eater (relax, it's an S-E property), start out as humans and learn how to turn into weapons at DWMA.

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Well, technically, they can turn into weapons before they even come to the academy. In fact, that's one of the signs they should start attending. This was covered in a bit more detail in "Soul Eater Not!", a side-series to Soul Eater that focused on a weapon who had no plans of becoming a combatant but still needed tutelage to understand and control her weapon transformations. When she started randomly changing into a halberd, she knew it was time to pack up and head to Death City Academy.

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I just hope we get to keep this little guy/gal in some open-ended capacity, and the next relic quest won't require us to kill them to proceed, with a dramatic farewell and ironically upbeat music playing in the background like the sound team didn't get the memo that Serah is dying on the floor.

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Unfortunately, I can totally see this happening.

Weapon: Master, thank you so much! I am now an independent being! I love being alive, I love being who I am, and I love you!
Gerolt: Welp, this weapon has evolved pretty much as far as it can go. For the next stage, I propose we melt it down into a glaze and use it to coat this new prototype weapon I created!
Me: *Stoic nod*
Weapon: Eh, wha...?

Can we change the title of this thread from "anima weapon" to "anime weapons?"

I just really wanted to make that joke.

I am more interested in the connection between Anima and the Elementals
http://s33.postimg.org/72wo2gge7/stats.jpg
When the Anima 1st manifested itself, I figured that it was just the devs reusing the assets to save time/ money. But the illustration above pretty much confirms that Anima have the shape of Elementals. I suppose it's not too hard to believe since Elementals are sapient aethereal beings much like the Anima we see.

Then in 1.0 Oha Sok (An Elemental) resided within the staff: Nirvana (to see whether or not humanity was worth saving)... whether or not this was the same Zodiac weapon Nirvana of eld is yet unknown.

Anyways, that's all for the thread derailment.

Dude, we're so far off the logical course of discussion that I think that nudge pushed us back on.

I actually wonder how sellable sentient weapons would actually be. What if they don't like the wielder? What if they get in a bad mood. Our current weapon has already displayed some free will even though its been to chose to fight with us.

Also the creation of such weapons and the power they would hold would require a hell of a lot of development. Its not simply making the weapon but 'raising' it as well. An anima weapon 'raised' by a different individual could quite likely have different results in the outcome of its potency and a different personality.

Regardless it would be a very exclusive item simply by virtue of the cost and time required to make it as well as the fact that not everyone would be able to get a particularly good result.

I think by now I've noticed Rowena cares not for the "Sellable living weapon" part but the "getting her lazy Ex-husband outa his funk & back to work" part (which as far as I can see he'd make her way more money than some rare, redicullusy hard to make, soulbonded during crafting sword could make... damn guys a miricle worker when blackout drunk... thou more shocked at the skill his apprentaince has back in North shroud that the Kettle quest showed)

back on topic I saw the Zeta as a uber-powered "spirited bonded" weapon of death, the Anima seems more like "demi-person" in weapon sustainted by welder (same concept as building an android treating & it as a friend, like Data or Romi from the Gene Rodenberry stuff, wasn't really alive at 1st but became or seen as it later, even if stuck as a weapon in FF14)