A complete map of Hydaelyn

This is something that's been bugging me for awhile, so I figured I'd ask and see if anyone more astute in the Lore might have an answer.

Why isn't there a more complete map of the entire world of Hydaelyn ?

We seem to only ever see detailed maps of the Eorzean continent. The characters in the main scenario seem to be fully aware of places outside of eorzea and some (like the domans) are not native to Eorzea. So if these places outside of Eorzea are so well known, why do we not see any maps depicting their locations.

I just find it odd that the characters in the game are so keenly aware of other regions in the world but yet we have no way of referencing their locations. The fact that airship technology is so widely available makes this even more puzzling. Surely someone has used an airship to travel the world by now and made a map of it ?

Btw, Nedrick Ironheart, the grandson of the guy who made the first map of Eorzea, is alive in present times and is continuing his grandfather's work. So why does he seem to only be interested in mapping Eorzea (still?), and not the rest of the world ?

Considering Vana'diel in FFXI never got a complete world map even after fourteen years of service (all that is known of Vana'diel's geography it has maps of the two original 'Middle Lands' continents Quon and Mindartia, plus the Middle Eastern Eradjia continent and the far western Ulbuka continent - there are actually three more continents mentioned in the story, but have never been shown or made accessiable - the Far Eastern continent that resembles feudal Japan where Iroha and Tenzen came from, the 'great south land' of Ozhirlya where the mithra originated, and the frozen northern continent of Ohzywa, where the orcs and gigas came from), and probably now never will, I'm not going to hold my breath at seeing an official full Hydaelyn map any time soon. And before you pass judgement, there is a very good reason for this - the writing and lore teams are still developing ideas for the world including new continents that could potentially be visited in the future, they're not going to yet commit to a 'complete' world map just yet in case a future addition contradicts the 'current' map, thus it's just easier to reveal new areas as the player goes along and fill in the blanks so to speak.

Having said that, we also do kind of have some idea about what the full world map of Hydaelyn looks like, based on the outer-space shot of Hydaelyn from the moon at the end of the 3.0 story (when Elidibus is conversing with Evil!Derplander and the camera pulls back to show them silhouetted against the planet rising above the moon's surface, clearly parodying the famous 'Earthrise' photo taken on the Moon).

On close inspection of the image of Hydaelyn in this scene, besides Aldernard and Vlybrand, the far western continent and what appear to be the 'great south land' of Mercyadia and what potentially would be Islabard and Othard can also just be seen through the clouds - really apart from Mercyadia it appears Hydaelyn's world map is actually very loosely based on our own world map, with some slight changes (where Europe exists in our world is empty ocean, and 'Africa' - i.e. Aldernard and Vlybrand - are a mirror image to Earth. Even what might be Thavnair closely resembles the west coast of Australia!).

But again, until future expansions/additions to the game reveal new lands and continents, take all this as just speculation (the fact that the above image of Hydaelyn in that scene mentioned resembles Earth's geography might just be pure pragmatism in that it was just easier to stick a modified real world map to show 'Hydaelyn from space' and just disguised, instead of taking up time and resources to create a new gepgraphy from scratch for a barely five second scene that is mostly obscured by cloud anyway. Remember, most players wouldn't even notice it after all (other than us of course ;)).

Well, the out-of-game reason is probably that the dev team wants to save a full reveal for later expansions.

In-game, it may just not have been extensively explored in modern times. Maps probably exist, but not publicly (betcha Limsa has a bunch though). Also, remember that Garlemald owns half of Hydaelyn; extensively charting Ilsabard and Othard is probably difficult when we're at war with those who own it.

It doesn't help that there's no real sense of technological progression. We started this game in essentially the middle ages and then the steamceruleumpunk empire was cutting edge, and then the sci-fi empire that fell 5000 years ago started having relics awoken and now the steamwaityessteampunk goblins are building on Garlean and Sharlayan scraps while Cid builds on Garlean and Allagan scraps and so on and so on. It's such a hodgepodge that you can't say what tech or references should exist here and now.

Yet... You have to figure Allag had a pretty nice map of the world by the end considering spaceships and satellites. You have to figure Garleans have some pretty nice maps of Ilsabard and Othard, considering they conquered them. Jalzahn probably has a map of Thavnair on him. So why is nobody communicating and corroborating and making any joint effort?

On one hand, as Enkidoh said, the team is better off not making any commitments that can't be modified and polished a bit as that content comes out. They know at least the rough idea; hell, we know the rough idea. We just don't know latitudes and coastlines, which will be fleshed out more as region maps are made for where ever we head next.

On the other hand, though, it also kinda messes with the spirit of the world lore a bit to release the full maps too soon. Lewphon of Sharlayan made our calendar 1344 years ago. Allag was a myth until ~550 years out. The map of our own home continent wasn't completed (as far as anyone living here now is concerned) until 71 years ago. And these are all allegedly huge achievements. Until the time is right, it's kind of anticlimactic for them to load up a tomestone and borrow some foreigners' maps and be like "PRESTO! There it is! Marvelous, isn't it? Alright, nobody's gonna need that for a few years, so I'll keep it. Off to Ala Mhigo with you!"

A map arrives precisely when it means to.

where would we interact with a map of the world? The larger the map the less useful it is for day to day things. I mean you might dig up the Allag version of Google earth but its probably going to only give small locations

To be honest, an Allag map might be inaccurate now as well. We cant be entirely sure on the effects the calamities had on the land masses but we have had one world scale earthquake, an Ice age, and a Noah scale flood since then. Just look how much Bahamut's rampage twisted the landscape.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

an Allag map might be inaccurate now as well.

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This is a good point; we know a calamity is blamed for Sagolii changing from a thriving area into a barren desert.

There also is the small matter that every now and again worldwide disasters occur that probably make previously created maps hilariously inaccurate. In fact, this last Calamity might be the first time they only have to redraw one continent.

EDIT: And ninja'd multiple times.

Someone should do an analysis of Astrologians Primal Focus weapon, it's clearly depicting Hydaelyn in the middle, with the moon + Dalamud on the outer ring, and there would appear to be land masses on the "globe" in the middle... Probably too stylized (and small) to be remotely accurate though...

I still find it weird the Astrologians still use Dalamud in their readings even though its not even there anymore and they now know it was artificial. How exactly does that work?

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Originally Posted by Belhi

I still find it weird the Astrologians still use Dalamud in their readings even though its not even there anymore and they now know it was artificial. How exactly does that work?

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Originally Posted by Fernehalwes

While Sharlayan astrology has been around for a long time, the fall of Dalamud is a fairly recent event, and astrologians are still undecided as how to treat the phenomenon. Because of this, the location of the body (had it still been there) is still used in readings, with some Sharlayan school astrologians spinning it that the "absence" of the moon is now the driving force in predicting an individual's fate. The fact that Jannequinard has very few ties with the astrologians in Sharlayan leaves him somewhat in the dark as to how others in his field are conducting new types of post-Meteor readings.

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>10 Invisible Characters

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

On one hand, as Enkidoh said, the team is better off not making any commitments that can't be modified and polished a bit as that content comes out. They know at least the rough idea; hell, we know the rough idea. We just don't know latitudes and coastlines, which will be fleshed out more as region maps are made for where ever we head next.

On the other hand, though, it also kinda messes with the spirit of the world lore a bit to release the full maps too soon. A map arrives precisely when it means to.

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I always wondered why we didn't have a Globe furnishing of Hydaelyn...something akin to the Model Star Globe furnishing, but moose made a good point why.

This is the closest to a complete map as we'll see for the the time being
http://i.imgur.com/q3mn4dR.png

But yeah, as other's have said realistically the devs just have not planned that far in yet and would like room to make additions once they get to that point. But when it comes to in-game lore then I'd imagine the Garleans have a rough map of the lands they've occupied + the Eorzean map. Most likely the Allagans have a complete world map since they conquered it all.

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Originally Posted by myahele

This is the closest to a complete map as we'll see for the the time being

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That's a fairly decent map, anyone care to attempt to roughly label it ?

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

That's a fairly decent map

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It's the texture file that's wrapped around the planet as seen from the moon, however we know we can't trust it 100%. Also keep in mind that it's about 50% of the planet's surface - the side of the orb visible from the moon (which is mostly obscured by clouds and shadows). The other half of the planet (which I presume is Othard, a lot of ocean, and probably more islands) is terra incognita (but probably looks a bit like Asia). I tried to label it a while back:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKzopK2WEAA9Ff_.png

Looking back on it now, that probably is Meracydia and the New World, probably is not Sharlayan, and still might be Thavnair. But, again, devs have commented that this might be laid out right-ish, but might not be 100% trustworthy. For starters, look at Vylbrand on the texture file; it (and Aldenard) were clearly traced directly from the Ironheart map, down to the smoke of Mount O'Ghomoro ... except the shape of the smoke appears to have been colored the same color as the landmasses, as if they were islands off the northern coast. How close are the coastlines of other continents? Time will tell! Ilsabard seems roughly as-intended, at least.

New World = Ivalice :)

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

New World = Ivalice :)

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While I know that comment was probably just wishful thinking, Dalmasca (and possbily Rabanastre) is somewhere on Othard, as per this interview with Koji Fox. That makes Doma's home continent a likely source of further Ivalice shoutouts, should we ever go there. Although, considering the Doma of FFVI wasn't especially Japan-inspired, I imagine any locations that use names from FFXII will be an in-name-only sorta deal.

As for the New World...all we really know about it is that the Mamool Ja come from there. I'm actually surprised the Garleans don't have a presence there, now that I think about it; I wonder what's stopping them from circling around from Eastern Othard? Military spread too thin across their other two continents, maybe?

Well, reading that article Ferne seemed to be talking somewhat tongue-in-cheek, so I'm liable to not fully regard that as 'canon'.... yet! (please prove me wrong!).

And even if it was canon, it would still be just like Costa del Sol, Gold Saucer and the Crystal Tower all just being references in name only and not the actual places from their respective FF games - the development team all but shouted this a long time ago during a Letter From the Producer LIVE that Hydaelyn is it's own unique, independent world that is not connected to any other FF world, although it has places that are name references to other FF games for fanservice:

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Originally Posted by Gildrien

Q55: There are a lot of names from Ivalice such as Dalmasca, Belias, and Zodiak that have been mentioned, is there some connection between Hydaelyn and Ivalice?

A55: To be absolutely clear, there is no connection between FFXIV’s Hydaelyn and FFXII’s Ivalice. Likewise there is no connection with FFXI’s Vana’diel. Each are their own individual world. Based on this, there are connections between the things that appear in the world, and we’ll be revealing more in the future.

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Originally Posted by Gildrien

1:57:29
Q: A lot of names from Ivalice have been mentioned such as Dalmasca, Belias, and Zodiak. Is there some kind of connection between Hydaelyn and Ivalice?
A: Maehiro: To be absolutely clear, there is no direct connection between FFXIV’s Hydaelyn and FFXII’s Ivalice or even FFXI’s Vana’diel. They are not the same world in different dimensions or time—they are their own separate worlds. However, there are certain connections to people or objects that appear in these other worlds that figure into the story of FFXIV as it has been conceived and is being told.

Yoshida: We’ll be revealing more as we move forward.

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So yeah, although there might be a place named 'Rabanastre' or 'Dalmasca' in Hydaelyn, it's not the FFXII ones, and that also means that the mysterious 'far western continent' (the one the mamool'jaa come from) is not Ivalice or Vana'diel too for that matter. But as they said, we'll see more in the future as the narrative takes us outside Eorzea into the wider world. :)

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Originally Posted by Hinoto-no-Ryuji

As for the New World...all we really know about it is that the Mamool Ja come from there. I'm actually surprised the Garleans don't have a presence there, now that I think about it; I wonder what's stopping them from circling around from Eastern Othard? Military spread too thin across their other two continents, maybe?

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Probably. As I recall most of the Garlean troops you run into in Eorzea are actually conscripts from Ala Mhigo and other imperial conquests. Given that most of those conquests are fairly recent, and thus unlikely to be very loyal to the Empire they can't really afford to spread themselves too thin or they'll start seeing multiple rebellions. Not to mention the logistics of sending an army that far.

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Originally Posted by SuperFlorinjin

Probably. As I recall most of the Garlean troops you run into in Eorzea are actually conscripts from Ala Mhigo and other imperial conquests. Given that most of those conquests are fairly recent, and thus unlikely to be very loyal to the Empire they can't really afford to spread themselves too thin or they'll start seeing multiple rebellions. Not to mention the logistics of sending an army that far.

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Agreed. Securing Eorzea is likely a step in that plan, though - Vylbrand would be an excellent staging area for any voyage further west.