MCH turret etiquette and graphic issue?

Just a sort of reminder/thoughts on particularly the bishop turret. Almost every dungeon I run with a large mob I set up my turret within the mob with hypercharge. Then someone sets up a crooked shadow flare or flaming arrow where they think the mob should be and the tank always moves the mob there regardless if it is better placement. I know because the lightning graphic only appears every few seconds which makes it very difficult to see compared to other ground aoe, but I'm not sure if it's purely a visual issue or people pass it off as "you can just move it". The issue with that is that is not only is it a 10sec cooldown unlike shadow flare which is a gcd, but unlike bard which can play foes willy nilly if a mch moves his turret after hypercharge the magic buff goes poof for a long time. What do you guys think? Is there a ground aoe priority and do you find the bishop aoe difficult to see?

Side note. Sometimes even in a raid setting (example hummelfaust normal) I'll pre set up the bishop in front of the fausts and even mark it with a giant X or O. Then someone presets their shadow flare beside my turret and the tanks pull there instead. Are people just uneducated of what the bishop turret does? Or do they choose to ignore the giant marks because they feel other ground aoes are more important?

I've had very similar problems since I picked up MCH about two weeks ago. Though to be perfectly fair, I tend to see tanks just slowly drag a pack of mobs around and eventually out of everyone's aoe. That said, Bishop seems to go unnoticed more often than not and it makes me cringe a bit after I set up hypercharge.

I've actually taken to waiting a short bit before camping down with Bishop, and I've still had tanks sit down for about 10-15 seconds and then suddenly rush off to the next room/pack.

Only twice have I noticed a tank realized they pulled the pack of mobs out of Bishop's aoe and attempt to reposition themselves back within the turret's radius. Repositioning our turrets isn't too much of a problem, but it can get tedious and becomes a DPS loss if you're like me and do it manually (without a macro), especially after HC.

Bard life since forever... tank pulls, groups up, great drop flaming arrow - tanks pulls mobs just out of flaming arrow... At least you can reposition the turret for free...

Most tanks just don't know what turrets do :)
They got used to shadowflare/flaming arrow/doton while leveling but rarely pay ANY attention to turrets.

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Originally Posted by MahoSenshi

Most tanks just don't know what turrets do :)
They got used to shadowflare/flaming arrow/doton while leveling but rarely pay ANY attention to turrets.

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No, it's just tanks moving have seen my fair share of tanks pushing mobs out of doton when i aapply it in the middle of the pack.

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Originally Posted by garret_hawke

No, it's just tanks moving have seen my fair share of tanks pushing mobs out of doton when i aapply it in the middle of the pack.

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This often happens normally, because as tank, you want all the mobs in front of you for parry/block and DPS like to get trigger happy before you get them into position. Moreover, dodging telegraphs is gonna shift mobs around and unless you go backwards to dodge, you'll mess with positionals. And if you don't got backward, well...gotta get the mobs in front of you again.
As for the turrets in particular: They simply aren't as visible. You don't exactly know where the range starts or ends and often, you don't even see which turret it is. The other ground effects are much more visible and as a result, tanks are more prone to gravitate towards them.

Yeah, I know have both pld and drk at 60.

Lately I have noticed a lot of tanks move the mob away from my turrets, not sure whether it is because they (lower level tanks) find it confusing seeing the flashing auras and not knowing that it is a player skill vs a mob AoE attack in the lower level instances or if they (higher level tanks) disliked it being around them because so much going on it makes it harder for them to concentrate on the mobs themselves. Most of the time however people don't seem to mind it but they completely ignore it to a degree that if I place one they run off expecting me to pick it up and drop a new one wherever they run off too constantly even if fight doesn't require the moving of the mobs.

As far as etiquette goes, I drop my single target/TP regen buff turret near the mob if there are multiple melee classes so that they and the tank can get the TP regen if needed or if multiple mobs being tanked in same place I do same thing with multi-target/MP regen bishop turret dropping it near tanking of mobs for it's AoE but I replace that bishop turret with another closer to the casters if they are running low on MP switching it to buff them. I haven't yet unlocked hypercharge on my MCH yet though so not sure how things are going to change in all those aspects when do have it aka placement and other players reactions.

Since it has no cost to cast aka MP or TP it isn't a big problem but there is a cool down on dropping them so that aspect can be a little annoying when plop one down and the tank runs off. In terms of how other DPS classes feel about turrets, I can't say what goes through their heads but I have noticed a few healers being weary of my turrets for some reason plus a lot of players I have noticed do not seem to pay any attention to what kind of turret I have out or what range the turrets have and a lot of them expect me to plop a new one down wherever they run off to on the map instead of staying in range of them. Like I said though it isn't a big deal, I just something I noticed. Outside of instances, people tend to treat my turrets like disco balls. :)

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Originally Posted by ruskie

Bard life since forever... tank pulls, groups up, great drop flaming arrow - tanks pulls mobs just out of flaming arrow... At least you can reposition the turret for free...

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bonus points for fully buffed flaming arrow, tank moves for enemy aoe and then moves all mobs back RIGHT TO THE EDGE OF YOUR FLAMING ARROW and stops, basically taunting you.

http://i.imgur.com/4HpLCJb.gif

I main tank, here's my thoughts on the matter.

1. My first job is to gain hate. I'm going to do that, sometimes things don't go smoothly and things move around for the first few seconds. Hopefully I end up in your pre-placed AoE... but that's not my first priority.

2. Once I have hate, I'm going to keep mobs as-still-as-possible for melee DPS.

3. If I can 'pull the mobs with me' straight into your AoE... this is minimal adjustment for melee DPS and I'll do that as soon as I can.

4. If your AoE happened to be behind the melee DPS... I'm not going to run through the melee, flipping the mobs over them, to get to your AoE. I'm going to consider your AoE placement as an unfortunate 'miss placement' and ignore it.

5. If there are no melee DPS, I'll do whatever I can to pull everything into as many overlapping AoE indications as possible.

If multiple AoEs are placed.. I will try to position mobs in all of them. If that's not possible, I'll try to place them in the turret first as that's permanent. Other than that... I'll go to the closest/easiest one.

To me, turret AoE > any-temporary-AoE because the temp ones will have to be placed again sooner or later anyway.

I know when MCH first came out, if you keep visual settings to "Medium/minimal" for others... you didn't see the AoE indication for the turret on your screen. However, I think they fixed this because I don't notice not-seeing turret AoE indication anymore.

I always have my visuals on "medium/minimal" for others because if I have everything on full when tanking, the mobs are too close and the explosions too big for me to notice all the mechanics and other things going on.

This is true actually. I forgot I have had people tell me that turning down the visuals makes its so you can't see the lightning circle. I myself have visuals turned down for other members but still see their aoes. I can't test cause it's emergency maintenance but wouldn't that be a design flaw if you can see other aoes but not the turrets with it turned down? I mean I absolutely don't expect the tank to see if my turret is skinny or voluptuous when he or she is dealing with a mob so the animation is their only guide

I personnally think MCH must adapt to tank positionning and not the other way round. I'm 223 MCH and always take a few seconds before launching my turret, in order to see where the tank is going to pull the adds.

I main mch and although you can wait a couple mins for the tank to adjust our turret is more akin to a pet for damage and would be like waiting for the tank to set up before summoning Garuda or if ifrit. Which is a waste either way if you have to wait or move