Heavy Thrust?

I've been switching between Dragoon and Warrior as mains since 2.0.As of late i don't play Dragoon much as i find it boring.But i have noticed a new trend with dragoons i've tanked for over the last while.
Like 99% of them never use Heavy thrust once in dungeons.I've even asked them about it and never get any response.For the record this is not just new players.It's people in full melded i220 gear or 230 lore gear too.

Is there a new rotation with dragoon or something i'm not aware of that drops that skill from the rotation?

if they aren't using heavy thrust, they're just bad

likely just casuals that don't really care

Kick them if they don't care. Why would you care in their stead?

heavy thrust is a dps loss when you are only alive for a few seconds

Enter the loldrg

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Originally Posted by DE-Roxas

Titan Extreme DRG Guide
1. Run to Titan
2. Wait for the Knockback
3. Make sure you get hit
4. Pretend you got laggs
5. Wait for clear

:D

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Use Elusive Jump instead and say it was accident.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Use Elusive Jump instead and say it was accident.

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LOL but that would require them to have Elusive Jump on their bar. A rarity to be sure. ;)

I'm guilty in Titan Ex as DRG with my fc last week. Landslide was above halfway through casting, I moved away and use Jump just to squeeze in that tiny bit of sweet sweet DPS. Landslide finished while I landed my hit, Bam! My first 20 secs in Titan XD I kept the floor away from the party for that whole fight. XD

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Originally Posted by Janyxea

LOL but that would require them to have Elusive Jump on their bar. A rarity to be sure. ;)

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I have it there cuz it's fun to use after jump, that way I jump to the target, fly back, then backflip back to behind the target and start my combos

As a Dragoon main, I can tell you that I never use Heavy Thrust. I have other skills on my bar that suit me better.™

With very complicated theorycrafting, people discovered that the damage boost given by Heavy Thrust is worthless if you replace Heavy Thrust, Phlebotomize and True Thrust by Feint.

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Originally Posted by Tanathya

Kick them if they don't care. Why would you care in their stead?

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racists ! i play how i want, its my sub u bunch of elitists ! u r a problem to this game !!!!

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Originally Posted by DE-Roxas

Random Dragoons in DF are 99% of the Time the worst you can get. They dont use their AoE on pulls with 10+ Enemys either. Just Keeping their Dragons Blood up and Single target the first of the 10 mobs.
Sure valuable for every group. I really hoping to get anything other than a dragoon when i queue xD But they always find you.

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Geirskogul is a 200 potency Doomspike every 10 seconds (technically 20 if you don't want to drop BOTD), and I'd rather pick out the hardest target on a pull and make it go away with my ST rotation before switching to AOE. If I'm paired with a SMN or BLM, though, there might not be any trash left for me to AOE...

Anyway, OP, heavy thrust is 100% required, there's no Weird Muta-Meta where HT can be left out of DRG's rotation. Kick bads, don't encourage or carry them.

In a group of 10 mobs, it's absolutely optimal to be hitting Ring of Thorns (even out of combo) or Doom Spike than any sort of mock "AoE" you might try by using single target.

Your "AoE single-target rotation" should also completely eschew Phlebotomize. DRG is the one Job where spreading BOTH DoTs is actually sub-optimal to maintaining HT>CT>CT>repeat with no Phleb in-between at all. 4 gsk per minute = 800 pot per mob per minute = probably 2-3 on any given pull you have BotD for.

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Originally Posted by Janyxea

LOL but that would require them to have Elusive Jump on their bar. A rarity to be sure. ;)

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They should! If nothing else, go up to a cliff, back up to the edge and hang your heels over just a bit and Elusive Jump. The game will bug, there will be no animation. You just get teleported to the bottom with 0 dmg taken. It's kindda fun and handy in some situations, but you gotta do it just right or it doesn't work.

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Originally Posted by JackFross

As a Dragoon main, I can tell you that I never use Heavy Thrust. I have other skills on my bar that suit me better.™

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You forgot to add that you pay your sub so you are entitled to play however you want.

BotD has caused me to forget about heavy thrust occaisionally, its bad, i know but it happens lol. also a dragoon walks into a bar, the rest of the party dodged it

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Originally Posted by fm_fenrir

Geirskogul is a 200 potency Doomspike every 10 seconds (technically 20 if you don't want to drop BOTD), and I'd rather pick out the hardest target on a pull and make it go away with my ST rotation before switching to AOE. If I'm paired with a SMN or BLM, though, there might not be any trash left for me to AOE...

Anyway, OP, heavy thrust is 100% required, there's no Weird Muta-Meta where HT can be left out of DRG's rotation. Kick bads, don't encourage or carry them.

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Actually, there is. If you are about to lose BoTD and the cast is on cd iirc it's better to drop HT to maintain the BoTD if dropping phelb alone isn't enough

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

They should! If nothing else, go up to a cliff, back up to the edge and hang your heels over just a bit and Elusive Jump. The game will bug, there will be no animation. You just get teleported to the bottom with 0 dmg taken. It's kindda fun and handy in some situations, but you gotta do it just right or it doesn't work.

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Doesn't require any precision, really. If you Elusive past an edge, it'll just track your progress along the ground and you'll end where you should have (on the ground, generally) with 0 damage taken. Unless they patched this since the last time I messed around with it. It still works from the roof of a house, at least.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

You forgot to add that you pay your sub so you are entitled to play however you want.

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I would have! But the person I was quoting with that didn't use that defense.

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Originally Posted by CookieMonsta

Actually, there is. If you are about to lose BoTD and the cast is on cd iirc it's better to drop HT to maintain the BoTD if dropping phelb alone isn't enough

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All things considered, I strongly disagree.

Let's break down the scenario you need in order for this to happen. When you're about to press Heavy Thrust, you would need ~10-11s remaining for this scenario to happen. For that to happen, your previous BotD must have refreshed the timer to ~21-22s (but not quite 22). The one before that refreshed it to 18-19s, and the one before that refreshed it to ~25-26s (and you used a gsk after this one, clearly). You're now 3 FaC/WT into you BotD timer, at least. If you use BotD after Impulse Drive, this is a scenario you might encounter. Now, a not-shit Dragoon would just wait until they use their NEXT FaC/WT (which bumps it to 24-25s, making gsk easy to hit) and then again after the fifth (where you're down low and getting BotD back anyway this next combo).

So, for this to be the case, you would have needed to fat-finger FaC/WT > GSK when you were at 21-22s and now you're screwed because you messed up and have two options. H>IDC>P>TTT>TTT>H>ID[botd]C4 or IDC4>H>P>TTT4>H>ID[botd]C4. Of note, the former has 14 GCDs before BotD and the latter has 13, so we're not delaying your BotD re-application by any meaningful amount. So, yeah, it looks pretty good. After all, we get +1 gsk in the latter combo and only lose HT on a few GCDs.


My argument is:
This is a situation which is implausible if you have any concept of how to play this Job.
Why?

1. In order to encounter this scenario, you need to use BotD before the second hit of your combo, rather than the third.
"But, you do this in the opener!" you cry, flailing your arms.
Yes, you do. However, we're discussing using gsk after the third strike of FaC/WT. After the opener, your first is CT, second is FT, third is CT. So, if you encounter this situation right then, you're skipping Phlebotomize. Not Heavy Thrust.

"But what if I did that again later in the fight for buff reasons!?"
Then you played your buffs wrong. BotD should always be used before the third hit. Geirskogul is flexible and can be used up to 3 GCDs before the re-application. Internal Release tends to be 1-2 GCDs before re-application. Life Surge likes to come up during re-applications on Full Thrusts sometimes - just use gsk earlier in those situations. It's not hard.

2. It requires you to have weak enough knowledge of the Job mechanics that you fire Geirskogul off immediately after hitting FaC or WT.
"But that feels like the best time to use it!"
Again, Geirskogul is a fluid cooldown - it's the only one of those that exist in the game! Take advantage of it. Using it rigorously at this exact precise timing is a crutch you should discard as soon as possible. Pay attention to timers - use it when it makes sense to, which is not always immediately following your FaC.


So...

tl;dr: Get good, basically? It's a scenario so implausible that I laugh at it. I know you'll say "but downtime" and I'll argue that I've successfully finished A7S and never encountered a scenario where I need to eschew Heavy Thrust in favor of maintaining Blood of the Dragon. It is literally not a conundrum I have ever encountered. Ever.

I comfort new monks or monks that have yet to learn. But no mercy for the derpgoons.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Use Elusive Jump instead and say it was accident.

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I have actually done that before. Saw all the plumes on me and had a knee jerk reaction to elusive jump out of plumes and over the edge. Was so embarrassed since I do actually try to do good.