Players as an in-game RMT Task Force reporter, as a new idea... Devs read!

I know that there are TONS of RMT threads out there, I will admit, and this thread is going to be one of them. But, hear me out on this one.

We already have a way for relaying RMT activity in the game through a window in the Help & Support tab. However, why not let the devs and the STF have extra help by us players?

I propose that there should be a whole section with reporting on RMT bots being in an area in it's own little box. Here is what I am proposing.

Us players can use the windows that displays a map of our current location on a map that is not being used for in-game play such as harvesting/gathering/quest icons/etc. . Yes, a map in another window by itself. It will display our location of our character with a blue arrow. However, this map will allow us to leave dots/markers on the server, or a small circle of the area that the RMT bots appear; like popping up out of the ground or disappearing, or even attacking monsters en masse with a blue circle highlighting the small area on the map of where the RMT are appearing. These special maps will vary by each of the servers to reflect which loopholes in the game's coding where the RMT appear. Other players can access the same map but when they highlight the area they see RMT, the area will appear in a red circle ping; however if your own blue circle intersects with another player's, it will become purple to show common ground. If it is in the same area multiple people are reporting, a bubble will show up to indicate how many players PING an area that's a hit with a large RMT population. I was thinking of a shortcut being <posrmt> as your position and then the RMT added so that it labels the reporting map of where the RMTs are appearing.

By using this data, it can be sent to GMs and STF members so they know the areas where RMTs are appearing. Most commonly RMTs are either THM/BLM or ARC/BRD, and will appear outside either Ul'dah or Gridania and sometimes even Limsa Lominsa, or even in the cities. However the ONLY bad thing is that we cannot do this RMT map marking when in dungeons as RMT usually party with each other so it is hard to find one in an instance dungeon (I could be wrong as people have said they have seen RMT in dungeons with them in the past). The GMs and STF members will be notified of the areas on the map where RMT area appearing, and if very similar patterns are showing up on each of the many servers, the GMs/STF can ultimately pinpoint the areas the RMT are appearing at by claiming them (I'm not sure what the GMs or STF members do if they even see an RMT bot character, so I don't know how to put it, lol), and essentially plug the leak of where they are appearing. Plugging the leak is a term I am using so that the devs can then strengthen the design of the area so that there is no flaw where hacking software can allow bot characters to target NPCs or monsters, or even gathering items (the devs could actually plug the leak of how the mapping is done by doing it at all of the harvesting points where gathers can go to get items, thereby cutting down on RMT harvesting of Crystals!), or even attacking monsters or gathering below the ground map.

Long story short: so if us players can pinpoint with a highlighting icon of our position, it can highlight a server wide map of places where people have seen RMT appearing. The data can then be compiled and sent to the GMs and STF so they are aware of which areas in any of the maps that RMT bots are appearing. By plugging these holes or having a character flagged when a GM/STF member is there at the scene, it can make their job easier with us players helping them using a new system!

…I'm pretty sure the GMs already collect data on RMT bots internally, and reporting bots usually gets them removed within minutes, so I don't know what this quite frankly over-complicated system is supposed to do or add? It doesn't fix the underlying problem, either, which is still that there's a market for RMT, i.e. people who buy gil, and you're not fixing this with adding more ways to report bots.

I've suggested numerous times that there'll be regular players, like myself, who will be willing to act as a GM undertier to deal with minor issues. Nothing ever comes of it.

What we need is an easiest way to report them, like a simple option "report as a bot" when you right clic a toon

Culfinrandir : your idea is not bad at all, but giving power to players will result in them using it for personnal benefits :/

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Originally Posted by Celef

What we need is an easiest way to report them, like a simple option "report as a bot" when you right clic a toon

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At the very least that much. "Report as Bot, and Block permanently".

And find a way to get away from that darn blocked list limitation - have an option to automatically remove old additions after X-number of days. Might be some actual players you'd find you need to re-add, but having to re-block one or two people every so often is damn nicer than having to manually remove all the rmt names more frequently, esp. with how active they are on some servers.

Or, of course, SE could just put more time and effort into dealing with them. There are MMOs out there - active, healthy MMOs - that do not have even *remotely* the presence of RMT in their games (in terms of spamming) that XIV has. It's not that SE *can't* do more than they are... they just aren't.

We dont need a fancy set up we just need a /report option. Some games of x amount of people report it they get chat silenced and a report gets sent to a GM. It's pure laziness on SE's part to implement proper spam systems.

i think add to black list feature they need to be reported spam button or report bots also we can add report bots with feature take screenshot

I have not reported an RMT in so long I am just not sure how the process works anymore...is it still the canned answer of "please log visit our security website here to report any violations regarding real money trade"?

the moment I saw that the first time I saw what their thought process was and had to make a decision...access this site and report the RMT harassment or throw this into the status quo bin...I choose the later for one reason...I rarely use the chat box in MMO's other than to say "hi" in df. Everything is VoIP accessible and I just talk to people now...sure the chat box provides some anonymity for those who like to role play, *looks at guys who play girls in an MMO* all the power too you but Idc about the anonymity and just talk, though I do design my characters as Hume males all the time so not stretching the truth too much.

Conclusion: they used to set it up that way to prevent data clutter and trolls. Cause trolls love to clutter stuff with random reports

Finding these bots is too easy for it to be a matter of needing more help from the playerbase to find them. There's simply no financial incentive for SE to pursue an aggressive strategy against them.

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

I've suggested numerous times that there'll be regular players, like myself, who will be willing to act as a GM undertier to deal with minor issues. Nothing ever comes of it.

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Too many players are vindictive. Give general players access this type of power and we'll see it devolve into witch hunts about this or that player behaving 'suspiciously'. GM's or anyone with GM-like powers should not be part of the player-base.

Player Moderators. This is what Jagex called them in RuneScape. Jagex even eventually offered some of them jobs..

P-Mods would basically be players looking to help the community, a step up from the Mentor system, a bit step at that.

On RuneScape, P-Mods could mute players, taking away all forms of communication to other players. I don't see why this "muting" can't be done here, expecially if its so painfully obvious that this player I'm looking at is a bot spamming other people. Additionally they could ban, and the ban would be investigated by Jagex-Mods, in this case it would be GM's.

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Originally Posted by Morzy

Player Moderators. This is what Jagex called them in RuneScape. Jagex even eventually offered some of them jobs..

P-Mods would basically be players looking to help the community, a step up from the Mentor system, a bit step at that.

On RuneScape, P-Mods could mute players, taking away all forms of communication to other players. I don't see why this "muting" can't be done here, expecially if its so painfully obvious that this player I'm looking at is a bot spamming other people. Additionally they could ban, and the ban would be investigated by Jagex-Mods, in this case it would be GM's.

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Because it will be used by players only to troll others....All the players are not db but unfortunatly you can't take the risk to have some of them ruining other's experience just for "fun" :/

Well, for starters, it's unlikely that SE much cares about the troupes of THM/ARC parading around. These bots are the smallest of the small fry; they can be recreated in seconds, so banning them is like spitting up a waterfall. It's MUCH more effective to ban these bots after days or weeks of work has been put into leveling and equipping them. Not sure what is meant by "strengthening the areas"; bots interact with the game in the same manner that players do. It is pretty much impossible to tell whether a command originates from a player or from a computer - because player commands also originate from computers.

Additionally, they are low priority because the only folks they bother are the folks who can't stand that RMT and bots exist in any form. For everyone else, they barely are even aware that they exist. The only times you're likely to even see them are at low levels while they grind mobs until they're high enough to enter dungeons. They don't monopolize any resources that are desired by players. They don't speak or interact with players in any way. Stamping them out is pretty much impossible, so SE leaves them alone until they get to the point where banning them actually has some sting.

Tellbots and shoutbots are another story; SE jumps on them pretty quickly. It's extraordinarily rare that you'll see a tellbot last even as long as a full day. Unfortunately, doing so is just as pointless as taking out the leveling bots: they can be and are replaced in seconds. Nevertheless, SE eliminates them as fast as possible in order to appease players who don't understand how impossible a task it is to stop them entirely. (There are whole forum threads full of hilariously bad player suggestions as to how they could actually be stopped: Ban all Chinese IPs! Stop all player communication until you ding level 50! Autoban any player who sends a tell to more than five different people in a minute! Those are some of the worst I've seen, but I could go on...)

SE's primary targets are ones that are less visible to players; the ones that store and distribute gil. These are the ones primarily involved in the actual business of selling gil to players, and these are the ones that hurt RMT most when they get banned. Finding these is another reason why SE tolerates leveling bots: by tracking where the leveling bots send their gil, SE can figure out which bots are storing that gil. A properly aimed ban can cost RMT billions of gil, something that stings far worse than cleaning up a pack of THMs and ARCs would.

Look man. We don't need an RMT task force. All we need is the following:

-> Me
-> A dragon
-> A jail cell

Anyone who read GM Dave knows the rest.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Look man. We don't need an RMT task force. All we need is the following:

-> Me
-> A dragon
-> A jail cell

Anyone who read GM Dave knows the rest.

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I much prefered GM Steve back then.

I don't think give players such kind of power is not good idea. You know how the community is. They can just report a innocent player.

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Originally Posted by Celef

Because it will be used by players only to troll others....All the players are not db but unfortunatly you can't take the risk to have some of them ruining other's experience just for "fun" :/

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R u saying ud rather not try because the risk is great? Of course it would be risky, but not everything good comes without risk and there will always be those that abuse features.

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Originally Posted by Celef

What we need is an easiest way to report them, like a simple option "report as a bot" when you right clic a toon

Culfinrandir : your idea is not bad at all, but giving power to players will result in them using it for personnal benefits :/

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Depends on the powers given. Early multiplayer world's, like WorldsAway & Pride! Universe had players with elevated access to help out & there were no problems whatsoever. I'm not saying that such players have ban access & stuff but if a RMT report comes from enough of the "trusted" players the spammer should be instantly suspended. At the moment it can take a LONG time for persistent RMT or bots to vanish. Sensible, trained & reliable players will only act where they see an obvious problem (20 THM hiding in Mun Tuy with random names, for example). Of course they would suffer sanctions & loss of privilege if they abuse it - just like how Mentors work now.

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Originally Posted by Lan_Mantear

Too many players are vindictive. Give general players access this type of power and we'll see it devolve into witch hunts about this or that player behaving 'suspiciously'. GM's or anyone with GM-like powers should not be part of the player-base.

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Anyone who acted vindictively would be picked up pretty easily & sanctioned. To be honest, if it got rid of the vindictive element in the game it'd be even better than ridding it of spam! I play in Eorzea to escape from my own problems & limitations, taking pride in my "life" & reputation in the game. I'd never jeopardise it for revenge or by being petty. I guess those who would aren't exactly great Eorzean citizens & are part of the problem!

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

I don't think give players such kind of power is not good idea. You know how the community is. They can just report a innocent player.

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Not all of the community are like that though & those who behave that way aren't really part of the "community". Being part of a community involves working to better the experience for everyone, that is what a "Community Mentor" (or whatever name it would be) is for.

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Originally Posted by Lan_Mantear

Too many players are vindictive. Give general players access this type of power and we'll see it devolve into witch hunts about this or that player behaving 'suspiciously'. GM's or anyone with GM-like powers should not be part of the player-base.

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Well, if we can pinpoint an area where RMT are popping up and report it to the STF, the dev team can look into that section of an area to see how they are hacking it. That is why I bolded the text in my original post as plugging a leak. I did not say anything about reporting bots by names as they appear and disappear really quickly either by going into an instance or logging off and then being deleted. If we could highlight an area on the map where RMT are appearing, the STF can look into that area. If things go that way, they can see a pattern where RMT are appearing.

I believe hunts appear randomly on the map at times, so I'm pretty sure GMs and the STF will know where a hunt is located so people can't abuse a reporting system such as what I described.

It doesn't work that way. You are thinking they are hacking the game code, which is not what is happening.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

I much prefered GM Steve back then.

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Forget that, everything can be answered with a dragon.

I think I can see this going pretty wrong with players handing out false reports on people just gathering in silence. I've had friends in my LS say they've received /tells from players asking "are you a bot?" when they're just gathering in silence, people need to mind their own business really and not offer themselves to be official witch hunters.

My suggestion has always been something along a similar vein of an in-game, right-click report. Basically, if a particular character accumulates a certain amount of reports then the server begins running tighter checks on them specifically. Bots love to teleport as we all know, I'm sure the server could pick up on extreme distances covered in implausible amounts of time or what have you. That way the server isn't wasting resources doing these super scans on every single player but can afford it to the characters that have garnered enough attention from players. If a positive catch is detected, the bot is banned immediately as opposed to every maintenance or whenever it is that they are actually removed. As players accumulate a higher count of successful reports that were later banned, their report value can increase; meaning that their credibility is recognised and their single vote can count for.... 5 instead of 1 for instance, meaning that less people are needed to report any one bot and bans can be handed out even faster.

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Originally Posted by Morzy

R u saying ud rather not try because the risk is great? Of course it would be risky, but not everything good comes without risk and there will always be those that abuse features.

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I'm saying that the community on this game is not the....well the "nicest" (does this word exists ? oO) in the world not to use any other unpleasant word so you can be sure that, within a week, hundreds of innocent players will be "punished" by trolls so yes, i'd rather not take the risk of giving them such powers :/

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

Depends on the powers given. Early multiplayer world's, like WorldsAway & Pride! Universe had players with elevated access to help out & there were no problems whatsoever. I'm not saying that such players have ban access & stuff but if a RMT report comes from enough of the "trusted" players the spammer should be instantly suspended. At the moment it can take a LONG time for persistent RMT or bots to vanish. Sensible, trained & reliable players will only act where they see an obvious problem (20 THM hiding in Mun Tuy with random names, for example). Of course they would suffer sanctions & loss of privilege if they abuse it - just like how Mentors work now.

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Times have changed and so did players.
Back then, MMo were not that popular therefore, player base was smaller and ppl used to play together from a game to another so they were more respectfull.
Plus, how do you decide wich player can be "trusted" ?
Like the mentor system wich allow speedruner and rude person to become mentor just by farming dungeons as tank (you always get the votes as tank) and jobs ? (did some dung with mentor actually being rude toward new players and kicking them....)
I think the easiest way to get rid of them is to give us the ability to just report as a bot via a right click instead of the actual system ^^"