Thoughts on a new dps class

Rumors are going around hinting to the red mage being an addition but with issues. If the Red Mage can wield magic and a sword, it mixes melee/mage dps mechs that could make things awkward.
Well what if we pulled an ACN and made the class split into two jobs? This may sound crazy but if you have a class that can use spell/sword, it makes perfect sense to split into a melee and mage job. Maybe the melee job could be Mystic Knight that puts spells into a blade? The spells on his blade can add potency or DoTs. Maybe the starting class can split into Mystic Knight/RMG.
But if the new classes start at 30 there would be no chance for a split. So why split if you can just start with two jobs? Well the idea of the class split is to satisfy the idea that the Red Mage must have melee and magic abilities, so this would form a job for the two styles. Having jobs for melee and casting beats having two stances where you can only use half your actions in my opinion.
What are your thoughts?

I think the people who run this game aren't gonna do branching classes/jobs splitting again. I don't recall the exact reasoning why.

Sadly I think classes are no longer a thing, people can't be asked to level up other classes for abilities for cross classing. Look at Rogue nothing they have can be used by other classes or jobs. With Heavensward only introducing jobs with no base classes we can only assume they will follow this pattern of jobs only which is really a shame.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bass9020

Look at Rogue nothing they have can be used by other classes or jobs.

---

Actually, they do have cross class skills other "classes" can use. Just nothing for other jobs.

The main reason why they aren't gonna make new classes is because they didn't find it valuable. Class branching means that both jobs will share all but 5-6 abilities up to 50, thus sharing a very similar playstyle and identity, whereas making the jobs from scratch allows them to all have their own unique animations, skills and potencies. Moreover, you won't need to hoard keepers hymns if you want to play both jobs efficiently if they have different main stats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ragology

I think the people who run this game aren't gonna do branching classes/jobs splitting again. I don't recall the exact reasoning why.

---

because jobs feel similar (SCH DPS now is like SMN 2.0 ) , and because stats... SMN main that puts all the points in INT and decide to play SCH for that duty...is losing all that points...and while books are cheap is still annoying...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zojha

Actually, they do have cross class skills other "classes" can use. Just nothing for other jobs.

The main reason why they aren't gonna make new classes is because they didn't find it valuable. Class branching means that both jobs will share all but 5-6 abilities up to 50, thus sharing a very similar playstyle and identity, whereas making the jobs from scratch allows them to all have their own unique animations, skills and potencies. Moreover, you won't need to hoard keepers hymns if you want to play both jobs efficiently if they have different main stats.

---

Oh I meant more of a single job coming from the class not two. ACN having SMN and SCH didn't really work out very well.

Rogue can give 2 abilities both of which are for classes only so they did start restricting from rogue on in favor of just jobs.

If we continue off the fact that we were given 3 specific jobs as hints last year, Samurai, Red Mage, Blue Mage, then I'm going to have to say Blue Mage is the ideal DPS candidate. People who want RDM as a DPS almost always claim that it's because they want a swordmage, which is the strongest identity that BLU can lay claim to. Whether you go with the superhero Blue Mage look or the Middle-Eastern Blue Mage, both are sword wielding magic users. BLUs would have access to the "devastating" enemy attacks while being able to provide some small level of party support, like White Wind possibly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DWolfwood

Whether you go with the superhero Blue Mage look or the Middle-Eastern Blue Mage, both are sword wielding magic users. BLUs would have access to the "devastating" enemy attacks while being able to provide some small level of party support, like White Wind possibly.

---

Blue Mage probably works really well as a dps, you're right. But the problem I was addressing was how they will use a dps that has melee and magic abilities. I thought the class split may help separate the abilities but it seems like that is in the past. Blue Mage probably wouldn't even have a clear set rotation if you have a focus on gaining enemy attacks, which sounds kind of interesting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shulk72

Blue Mage probably works really well as a dps, you're right. But the problem I was addressing was how they will use a dps that has melee and magic abilities. I thought the class split may help separate the abilities but it seems like that is in the past. Blue Mage probably wouldn't even have a clear set rotation if you have a focus on gaining enemy attacks, which sounds kind of interesting.

---

Well, personally, I think it would be neat and fitting if we got a Spellsword class and it split into BLU and RDM. It probably won't happen because they've said how much extra work it is to balance that, but in that specific case, You could have someone choose to go the DPS-focused route and do BLU while some choose the Healer focused route and do RDM. RDM needs black magic, white magic, and a rapier to stay true to its image in my opinion.

They could try doing what WoW did and offer spec trees, allowing people to have different RDM builds. I don't see this happening because they've explicitly said they wouldn't from what I recall. I'd have to bring up the specific interviews though.

I think they should scrap Red Mage and bring back BEASTMASTER!

When I think of red mages, I think of this video. They don't have as high damage output as say a black mage, and don't have as high healing as a white mage; considering the classes are forced into roles, I think their convert power, survivability spells, and the fact they can wear heavy armor, shields and swords; would make them a perfect magic-tank class, with actual ranged AoE enmity powers and magical defense. (I'm looking at you ice sprites!) Plus they already have the black mage's umbral ice and astral fire buffs which thematically would work perfectly for the OT and MT buffs if slightly modified; enchanting your armor with umbral ice or your blade with umbral fire, especially considering if there was reliance on Convert (Swaps current HP with MP.)

For the new DPS I would like to see beastmaster, samurai, geomancer, mime, pupper master, gambler or blue mage, although I can't really see it work unless most of their attacks were pretty much flavor effects. (probably in that order)

Beastmaster would be a very fun class to have, and could potentially use a whip weapon; although the main issue I see with it is that square would probably need to make pet types for each animal; with balanced skills and abilities for every one. And that would be quite a bit of work.

Samurai is already covered- everywhere extensively.

Geomancer; AoE damage, AoE DoTs, AoE Buffs, Traps, etc. This can be a very fun class, and the main CC dps.

I can see mime probably having it's basic three attacks be random other classes attacks, or the targets attacks (but just glamour, it'd still deal the normal set damage and everything), with a special ability called Mimic to pay attention to a party member, and copy whatever actions, and movements they preform. (probably a mime would stack near that member.) The way the mime LB could work is to mime someone who is preforming LB, and it would do just a fraction of the damage.

Pupper Master exists in the lore as a non-playable class in Eorzea, and seems rather popular by people; only problem I can think of really is that the puppet master himself is too similar to a puglist in the way he fights. Perhaps if all his attacks were done from the puppet itself; with a way to control the puppets position exactly, it could work.

Gambler would be a totally luck-based class of course, slots obviously would be their primary ability; but I cannot really see that working for the standard combo; so unsure how they can be implemented.

Blue mage; I honestly would like a blue mage, but just about no enemies in this game have all that unique abilities, yes some do, but most abilities just boil down to cone-damage, or single target-damage. Perhaps if you were able to pick and choose the glamour of your spell attacks that could be cool, or to gain only the unique creature abilities, like when those little dragons fire the AoE at you during Svara.

Samurai -> Tank
Blue Mage -> DPS
Red Mage -> Healer

On the anniversary event, they talk about "blue", "red" and "Samurai" I think it was a hint.

Yeah and then blue mages, yellow mages, pink mages, violet mages, green mages.

I personally want to reroll gray mage (a mix between blm and whm).

It's been a long while since I last revisited this sorta discussion and I don't really remember too many details from back during the event and some Live Letters. That said, I do remember Yoshi had admitted they were first considering SAM as the new tank for Heavensward but later decided on DRK.

I get the feeling SAM would be our new DPS that'd share a slot in the PT with DRG as well as their "heavy armor" DPS gear. RDM I could easily see filling the "support" role that BRD and MCH do, but with their own obvious RDM spin on it. RDM has always been a supporter/buffer in all FF games that I've played. So, that'd leave BLU as... well, I suppose a tank if we're expecting a new tank job. I can and can't see it. I wasn't expecting to see DRK as a tank, so I don't really know what to expect going forward.

Make Red Mage a Mage Tank instead. Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Make Red Mage a Mage Tank instead. Thanks.

---

Yes, please. This is all I'd need to be happy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Make Red Mage a Mage Tank instead. Thanks.

---

As usual, agreed. RDM can be an insanely fun tank to play as.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DWolfwood

People who want RDM as a DPS almost always claim that it's because they want a swordmage, which is the strongest identity that BLU can lay claim to.

---

An interesting argument, but horribly flawed. Red Mages have had the ability to wield swords since the very first Final Fantasy game, while Blue Magic wasn't even introduced until the 5th installment. Strago Magus, the next blue mage in the series, had rather low strength and used wands instead of swords. Quistis Trepe used a Whip. Quina used forks (she's a cook), Kimahri used a spear. Need I go on? I really can, as you must surely realise.

Exactly where did this this idea that Blue Mages are synonymous with swords come from? Where most of these concepts originate is Final Fantasy Tactics. A single game. Granted, it's one of the few that has a class system, but I remind you that in that game also Red Mages used swords. Rapiers, to be precise.

Both RDM and BLU have a fair claim to the DPS throne, so it's up in the air as to which one gets the gold. We can't really use past games as an example after Dark Knight, a long-time DPS class, was turned into a tank.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemuria

Snip.

---

Well said, all of it. After seeing what they did to DRK, one can expect anything as long as it doesn't require much effort, which is the only reason why I can see SAM introduced as a tank. Even if it was a DD, it wouldn't change my mind as to what I think of what they're doing and how they're handling things so far.

Id like to see red mage have an equal amount of magic and weapon skills. But because it can pull from both mp and tp, everything would have a higher than average cost.

I feel like red is gonna be a tank, due to it being a tanking job in final fantasy explorers.

And for blue, it learns weapon skills on its own, and every 5 levels (job quest) you have to go out to study certain monsters to learn their magic. No idea what roll it will be.

And samurai has to be a dps.Yoshi-p already said he wanted a sword using dps.

Literally any job in FF besides the obvious healers can be considered for a dps role, from that pool and besides something like paladin/holy knight you have to sort of guess and innovate, i mean first scholar to appear had libra/peep as its main ability, did use books but just attacked with them. Hardly a healer, but they turned it into one. I know alot of people want a mage/barrier tank, but im really trying to see how it would work and not be drk. Instacast magic barrier, enfire coodown enhances attack power for 20 seconds, tank stance reduces damage and increases enmity, instant cast floor aoe, instant cast aoe enmity generator, a spell to grab hate from a distance, maybe a gap closer, maybe an additional aoe attack that has enmity generation, lets be cool and give it a silence, it has to have an in demand stun or itd suck... I mean i could be slightly more innovative but if you give it casting times, it would probably not make it very far as a tank before losing hate or something. Because being a tank it HAS to dedicate a large amount of its skill pool and playstyle to fit pretty much the framework to be an effective tank, it could deviate for sure, but not by much.I love the mage armor can be boosted to tank armor specs with a stance too, would be fun to see a caster off tank voke the boss cause a healer let the mt die or mistimed bene, and get one shot from having cloth armor defense and hp pool of a summoner. Alot could be argued of dps roles, but they dont HAVE to have all these cooldowns, stuns, and utilities to grab hate or be the center of attention preventing any downtime, spell casting or movement. SE can do what they want though, so its possible it could end up whatever they feel like making it I just personally dont see them changing combat that much by the next expansion to warrant that kind of freedom, also itd have to pull from gladiator as 1/2 of its cross class skill pools, so there goes the black/white fantasy there too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teirdalin

For the new DPS I would like to see beastmaster,

---

Man love. :)

That's all it is - rumors, and wishful thinking - there's rumors about SAM dps, RDM dps, BLU dps, DNC dps, RNG dps, BST dps, as well.
Anyway, there's nothing awkward about RDM using both melee and ranged, it could be like BRD using minuet - some skills are instant, while others are cast - you use WS combos, and cast some nukes; you can throw out some "scathe" while dodging aoes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DWolfwood

People who want RDM as a DPS almost always claim that it's because they want a swordmage, which is the strongest identity that BLU can lay claim to..

---

How in the world would people even think that? If anything red mage is more suited as a sword-mage of the two listed there, as they can actually equip armor. (as well as heavy armor) But if people -really- wanted a sword mage-> mystic knight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teirdalin

How in the world would people even think that? If anything red mage is more suited as a sword-mage of the two listed there, as they can actually equip armor. (as well as heavy armor) But if people -really- wanted a sword mage-> mystic knight.

---

Maybe because of this:

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20120814012902

and this:

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20141225110033

What does equipping armor have to do with being a sword mage anyways? Wouldn't that just be a DRK or PLD? BLU uses magic from enemies, so just give them swords and continue to establish one of the two predominant images of them. Problem solved. In fact, it would be neat to see them use AF from both of these pictures.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teirdalin

How in the world would people even think that? If anything red mage is more suited as a sword-mage of the two listed there, as they can actually equip armor. (as well as heavy armor) But if people -really- wanted a sword mage-> mystic knight.

---

When you look at more of the iconic version of RDM, it's far less "sword-mage" than just a mage that happens to have a sword. Yes, it had melee, and yes, it had magic, but they were always always ALWAYS kept separated and distinguished. How that might translate into FFXIV could likely be blend of general spellcaster and use melee combos to regenerate MP along with having more support skills like some alternate form of Bloodbath where it'd heal allies while dealing damage and have Doublecast as a damage cooldown.

Although when you think about it, all these interpretations of RDM could go right into the storyline of a magical soldier shrouded in myth and legend.

Quote:

---

Exactly where did this this idea that Blue Mages are synonymous with swords come from? Where most of these concepts originate is Final Fantasy Tactics. A single game. Granted, it's one of the few that has a class system, but I remind you that in that game also Red Mages used swords. Rapiers, to be precise.

---

No, the idea Blue Mages used swords came from FFV when they could equip them. However, in that game, Red Mage was the better melee fighter as it had access to heavier armors as well as higher strength while Blue Mage had higher magic stats and a wide selection of monster skills to use.

Regardless, Red Mage is the original fighter-caster in FF and those that want to push it as mainly a healer tend to forget that white magic has always only been 1/3 of what it has ever done.

I think we're at a point with jobs that it'd be a better idea to introduce new classes as specializations for existing classes rather than complete jobs. Something like a Time Mage or a Beast Master would either have too much overlap with an existing job or not enough to create a whole class; but if Time Mage was a healer specialization that offered a couple new abilities and some traits and Beast Master was a BRD specialization that did the same thing, then you'd have a cool way to augment existing classes and freshen them up.

I know RDM has more claim to melee historically, but I can't help but feel like BLU should be the tank because their primary method of learning is getting hit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by basketofseals

I know RDM has more claim to melee historically, but I can't help but feel like BLU should be the tank because their primary method of learning is getting hit.

---

Yeah I have to agree if anything the blue mage has to get hit and survive to learn the skill, so at least even as a tank it can feel like its doing its thing and isnt quite as akward. If anything things that are op like white breath could just be cooldowns, and it wouldnt be too harsh on the bluemage formula, i think. I mean... white wind was literally like an aoe benediction. if the guys hp was high

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Radacci

That's all it is - rumors, and wishful thinking - there's rumors about SAM dps, RDM dps, BLU dps, DNC dps, RNG dps, BST dps, as well.
Anyway, there's nothing awkward about RDM using both melee and ranged, it could be like BRD using minuet - some skills are instant, while others are cast - you use WS combos, and cast some nukes; you can throw out some "scathe" while dodging aoes.

---

Some form of dps that combines both varieties of gameplay is something i would welcome, i love my drg, i love my smn and blm but sometimes i want to play something that can do both things. Thatd be a dps main for me

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemuria

Exactly where did this this idea that Blue Mages are synonymous with swords come from?

---

The game it originated from
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/B...l_Fantasy_V%29

Quote:

---

Unlike most other spellcasting jobs, Blue Mages can wield not only the common spellcaster equipment, but also swords and shields, giving them more offense and defense than a regular mage.

---

I believe in that game that's pretty much the only thing they can equip, not played V in a while. I have a hard time imagining what a Blue Mage and Red Mage would play like in this game since they both have swords and can cast long range magic, might be my "disturbing lack of imagination" as some people here put it.

Wouldn't it be neat if they took some notes from Quistis Trepe's weaponary though? a mid-range weapon like a whip for the Blue Mage would be great.

I actually really don't think its that hard to see how RDM will be implemented as a DPS, while doing both casting and melee. It already exist in the game as the communities most beloved spell.

Wanderers Minuet

Let's call the RDM version Paradigm Shift (lol). When this ability is unlocked, it allows RDM to become the most flexible class (DPS wise) in the game. By using this ability all weapon skills turn into spells with a boost to AOE, and when you go back to melee you get more focus on Single Target. The sword paradigm will use TP, the Spell paradigm will use MP. Top RDM's will find the sweet spot to swap mid battle so that they never run out of resources. RDM also then has great synergy with both Foe's, and DRG's piercing debuff (because rapiers).

Make it instant cast and give them a disengage that works like DRG's elusive jump and you have the friggin dopest dps yet. Lastly give them White magic spells that can do mediocre heals and a revive and wham. It's doing everything while being in the DPS spot. Because of it's versitilty it'll probably be NIN range of damage.

I'd love a mobile ranged class with a nice, flow-y rotation. Bard was this for me but I abandoned ship when I heard about Wanderer's Minuet because I already have a turret (should I give it another go?).