DEV Request: WM & GB changes for 4.0

Seems like the bow/gun mage is here to stay, but I would like to propose some changes to them to make physical range feel more dynamic than the caster sets.

My idea: When WM/GB is activated Bard/MCh skills have the same cast time but the cast time is only activated by holding the icon/ holding corresponding button. Then when cast time is over the action is automatically executed even if user forgets to release the button. So if you want movement while attacking just click the icon/button like normal but if u want to use the WM/GB user must hold the button.
What do you think?


edit: User would only loser auto attack when holding the button/ charging up the attack

P.S. can we please change GB’s stance like you did WM

Could cleric stance be changed to be like that too? Hold the button to use "swapped mind/int" as a stat, but tap it to use Mind?

The Gauss Barrel was designed for the Machinist, and it works on machinist due to the nature of their combos (can be executed in movement). They copy-paste to bard, and destroy the bard. They should keep the machinist as is it, and change the bard one.

Honestly, we've been begging since 3.0 came out and they "looked into it" and it didnt really change then... so I doubt it's going to change at all. I've already quit my bard main, and gave up on MCH before I even started it. I wont ever play them until WM/GB go away..

My only issue with WM is the name and the lore behind it.
It would make more sense if it had something to do with the strings on the bow. Tighter strings would require more effort to shoot an arrow, and that would call for a charge/prep time instead of calling it a "cast time". Logically it makes more sense that way.

And "able to sing with other songs" is ridiculous. Have you ever tried to sing 2 different songs at the same time? Go on. Try it now... i but it didn't work out very well.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

The Gauss Barrel was designed for the Machinist, and it works on machinist due to the nature of their combos (can be executed in movement). They copy-paste to bard, and destroy the bard. They should keep the machinist as is it, and change the bard one.

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It is possibly true that MCH was designed around GB, but even if so that doesn't mean it was designed well. I personally don't think GB's added cast times really add anything fun to MCH from a gameplay point of view. I can definitely see GB adding cast times to especially high damage skills perhaps, but instead it ends up affecting our most used combo starter (split shot) and that can't be mitigated outside of Rapid Fire. It ends up feeling rather clunky.

WM is a interesting skill certainly, it didn't really add anything, in fact it just added the auto attack into the skills. But at times it does feel better since most people trying to get the best shot will stand still, think a hunter in this case. Now that's not saying all archery makes people stand still, that's the opposite archers rode horse back and had to be just as nimble in battle. So really SE made us the equivalent of a hunter in my book and it ruined the class all around. Honestly, it really confused me why they added more battle skills, they are nice yes, but let's not forget Jehantel used a healing song, voice of valor during the 50 quest, not to mention voice of fortitude, a damage reduction song, and relentless march which I think was a GCD cool down reduction song. Why we didn't get this to add to our support is beyond me and has severed as the main reason why I don't trust SE with decision making.

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Originally Posted by nexas506

And "able to sing with other songs" is ridiculous. Have you ever tried to sing 2 different songs at the same time? Go on. Try it now... i but it didn't work out very well.

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I never really treated it as singing to be honest, but if I were to look so far into it then I'd be looking at Paean in the sense of interrupting your singing for a moment to give a shout out to someone in the audience, liiiiike....

"La-la-la-la ~ La-lalala-la-la ~ Ah, Nexas! My man! *Paean used/Hand gesture in greeting* Lulululu-la ~ La-la-la-la--la-la~ "


Albeit now you have me interested in what a Bard's song would be like mid-battle.....

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With great valiance did our four heroes charge down the field,
In the name of Eorzea dare they not think to yield ~
With tenacious defiance, together and strong,
Oh f**k, one just used sprint, I better Paeon ~

<insert chorus and further verses here>
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Originally Posted by Knahli

stuff that literally made me laugh out loud

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Er ma gerd i got a shout out. Happy nexas

I'm fine with GB and WM. Love them, in fact. But I would like bard to not be such a glitchy mess.

It could be that the Bards alter their song mid-performance to use multiple skills at once in certain cases, (be it lyrics, tempo or pitch), explaing why Minuet and Paean can be used with other songs. Much like in the example in Knahli's post, but less tounge-in cheek

i want to get AUTOATTACKS BACK , come on already.....

who knows what happened in SE HQ....because MCH was supposed to be a job that changed attachments...

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/umadori07...c/3cc7430a.jpg


but in the end we got what we got...and is infuriating to say the least...because MCH looked so promising...

GB or WM who know what was created 1 ...the issue is still here...and feels like a patch to a gunshot wound.... (pun intended)

I love GB! :3

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Originally Posted by nexas506

My only issue with WM is the name and the lore behind it.
It would make more sense if it had something to do with the strings on the bow. Tighter strings would require more effort to shoot an arrow, and that would call for a charge/prep time instead of calling it a "cast time". Logically it makes more sense that way.

And "able to sing with other songs" is ridiculous. Have you ever tried to sing 2 different songs at the same time? Go on. Try it now... i but it didn't work out very well.

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Would make more sense if WM was like a duet
With your weapon.. or a Spirit
Or a singing Moogle..

Still singing a duet with a soul infused singing weapon..

Sounds like something I would wanna see :)

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

The Gauss Barrel was designed for the Machinist, and it works on machinist due to the nature of their combos (can be executed in movement). They copy-paste to bard, and destroy the bard. They should keep the machinist as is it, and change the bard one.

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I'm in the process of leveling Machnist too after having sub-mained Bard for several months just to see their differences, and this was exactly the first thing I observed upon unlocking Gauss Barrel. Bard's version in comparison to how it works for Machnist feels like a very poorly thought out copy-paste job that feels like a dev decision to nerf the class in terms of playing style more than anything actually reasonable. Especially since Gauss Barrel doesn't really clash with anything else in the Machnist skill set - if anything, it encourages people to use Quick Reload more intelligently to keep up their procs for more mobility and ease of use in weaving in off-GCDs, and maintaining earlier Machnist buffs and procs becomes even more important (especially Rapid Fire, which gained the additional effect of being able to ignore Gauss Barrel casting.)

But for Bard, Minuet hugely clashes with one of the major mechanics of the class, the Bloodletter/Rain of Death CD resets, to the point where Bards will often have unused Bloodletter/RoD resetting multiple times because they were already using something with a cast time. Minuet doesn't add ANYTHING for Bards playing-style wise besides Empreyal and Iron Jaws being locked behind Minuet, and that's really an essential limitation instead of something that's actually interesting. It doesn't even do anything to the songs. (The only earlier weaponskill that gains an additional effect under Minuet is Straight Shot if the Straighter Shot procs at a 20% rate, and that only lets you cast it while moving.)

I mean, the whole 'turning Bard from a mobile ranged DPS to a caster' is the least of my concerns, movement is hardly an issue with proper positioning anyway. It's mainly Minuet clashing with everything you use in the 51 levels prior to learning it, with nothing to mitigate how awkward your rotations suddenly become. It suddenly transforms the class into something completely different.

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Originally Posted by nexas506

And "able to sing with other songs" is ridiculous. Have you ever tried to sing 2 different songs at the same time? Go on. Try it now... i but it didn't work out very well.

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Oh, I dunno. Ever heard of a medley? In music, it's a composition comprising of multiple songs rolled into one. Medley also makes for a nice ability name.

To be honest, I don't like most of the songs they've given us. Ballad is great, but the Paeon rarely gets used because there are so many better ways to recover TP now. There's no attack, defense or speed buffs either. No songs to rejuvenate HP or enhance your stats. In FFXI, the first songs you ever get are a defense buff and an attack buff! They decided to focus squarely on the DPS aspect of FFXIV's Bard instead of support, which begs the question why they didn't just name the class 'Ranger' and remove the songs entirely. Let's be honest, at this stage most jobs can manage their MP fine enough without a bard, and most bards don't like to use it anyway because of the DPS drop.

Wanderer's Minuet is just another example of SE ignoring the players. No one asked for it, no one wanted it, but we got it anyway. A single skill to upset the status quo and make your 50+ levels feel wasted since it does nothing to prepare you for your final levels. The cast time is just long enough to be annoying, and not long enough to justify giving us a stronger attack boost. Long enough that weaving in bloodletter results in forced pauses. A small pause no doubt, but those little moments add up considerably over time.

I've noticed a considerable lull in the number of level 60 bards when running dungeons and raid content. They're still out there, and still playing, but certainly not in the numbers that they were before Heavensward was released. I would be very interested to see a census about how often classes are actually used, rather than simply how high people have levelled them up.

GB definitely "feels" better than WM does but SE didn't want brd's doing that whole being able to run and jump around while maintaining high dps with no penalty. That being said, I do believe that the main complaint I see (i.e. that brd goes from being a mobile dps to having a completely different playstyle after 52+ levels) is a perfectly valid one. I'd rather see them encourage brd to stay still a different way rather than using the whole cast time thing, especially since the cast time can interfere with Bloodletter/RoD procs.

But then the question comes to how can they make brd competitive dps wise while making them give up mobility? One thought is simply remove the ability for brd to attack while moving or if folks don't have an issue with borrowing something from WoW, WoW's marksmanship hunter has a passive called "Sniper Training" where you get a damage buff by standing still and not moving for three seconds and it stays as long as you're not moving, that passive gets stronger over time as you gear up also.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

I've noticed a considerable lull in the number of level 60 bards when running dungeons and raid content. They're still out there, and still playing, but certainly not in the numbers that they were before Heavensward was released. I would be very interested to see a census about how often classes are actually used, rather than simply how high people have levelled them up.

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I love Bard, but I actually wouldn't be surprised at all if basically every Bard main unanimously agreed that Minuet is deeply flawed at the end of the day. I actually wonder how Minuet got past the testing phase without anyone bringing up how badly it clashes with Bloodletter procs, and the only answer I can come up with is that Minuet in its current form was such a late last minute decision that it wasn't thoroughly tested at all (and the devs DID admit that they didn't even test -Gordias Savage-).

Think both are fine as they are, Bard could use some tweaks to make it flow a bit better but other than that i consider them one of the best additions.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

who knows what happened in SE HQ....because MCH was supposed to be a job that changed attachments...



but in the end we got what we got...and is infuriating to say the least...because MCH looked so promising...

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More or less this. They had previewed things like ammo usage, attachments and the like. What we got seems to be incredibly trimmed and honestly really shallow, especially relative to bard.