Remove Echo from Job Duties

It's simple: Job duties are supposed to be, at least ostensibly, exams meant to gauge your understanding of your job up to that point, and how to play it against a set of typically basic mechanics.

However, the Echo effect allows players to brute force their way through these duties without care or understanding. Many players have clearly learned nothing, and have been rewarded fr failure by being allowed progression anyway. Removing the Echo effect and forcing players to understand these duties is a good step toward creating a higher class of community.

And what about those players who don't finish their job duties and continue to level and queue in duty finder? If they encounter resistance from other players by not having necessary abilities, they'll simply have to learn to understand their jobs and make greater efforts.

Hello, non-50 here, my advice is to instead change classes to have you forced to do your rotations to win. Similar, in a sense, to Hall of Novice. Also, don't let a person queue for the main story without being a Job at 30 and doing that level's class quest.

I completely agree with you :) back in 2.x when I was levelling my THM, there was a certain class quest I had difficulty but due to echo, like you said I was able to brute force it. It wasn't until later that a friend said to me "Did you sleep them?" that was me like DUHHHH! after that.. I would have got it eventually but I was too lazy to look past burning them down.
In 3.0 I was happy that some of the quest where tailored to you knowing how to do your job to an extent e.g. PLD

On the other hand, I can see a lot of people not being on board with this. The idea is to keep progressing and grow, It think it's the reason why class/ job quests got echo. Rather than making the quest easier, they just made it so you got a little help after dying a number of times.

My only other way suggestion to get people to learn their role/ job would to have certain quests in the Hall of Novice.

I'd have to disagree. I'm horrible at tanking and yet I'm still able to pass these job quests somehow. Regardless, I for one do these job quests just to see more of the side story quests, and not having to be in a group to progress helps a introvert like me find value in this game. If someone is terrible with their class, people WILL let them know just how bad they are, and believe me that's incentive enough to get better. ( I speak from personal experience of course... part of why I hate when they force you to group with others to progress the storyline... actually made me quit the game entirely a couple of times.)

I support this idea 100%. I sucked and died heaps to the LNC class duty but the repeated failures demonstrated to me that I needed to git gud and actually learn the rotation. In feel the echo undermines this learning process too much.

I agree and disagree with your request. While I agree that there could be a way to help with quality of player, I don't feel that removing echo from those duties will actually affect anything. I feel like people will eventually beat it after asking for help, or looking up maybe a quick guide if they are actually having any real trouble with something. I feel like the game really only opens up at lvl 60 and thats where you need to really practice. Everything up to max level is learning, and will forever be subject to change as you gain abilitys.

At the end of the day, if somebody wants to really get better, they'll ask questions, talk to people, do the homework and practice applying it.

I disagree. Sure, it undermines learning your job, but you don't need to treat this game like you're studying for a test, unless you're raiding or doing extremes.

I'd go even further and make the enemies in DPS job duties regenerate their health over time instead of having big HP pools. This would give the duties a minimum DPS requirement to complete them. Not a huge number, but big enough so that facerolling won't be an option and the player needs to understand the very basics of the damage dealing job.

Yeah, definitely not going to happen. Not in this game at least. In Eve Online all(?) NPC's regenerate.

Then you'll have NINs kiting mobs with Throwing Daggers/Fuma Shuriken because the class quest told them to do so.

Seriously though, most class quests are extremely special situations. On occasion they hit the nail on the head (that early GLA class quests that has you use Flash), but for the most part the duties are more quest story-oriented than actually teaching anything. While I agree that having Echo and brute forcing these is not an ideal tactic, your fix is really going to frustrate more than accomplish what you hope it will.

Since the job quests hardly require anything relevant to your role in the first place, and certainly provide no advice on how to actually play your job correctly, I don't especially see how this is going to help?...

Simple solution - have an option to turn The Echo on or off. Problem solved.

Like... what's the point of outright removing it? Not everyone's hardcore. You only segregate those like myself who are casual.

To pre-emptively answer any naysayers comments of "Git good" or "then maybe they shouldn't run the duties in the first place" guess what? Not your call to make. I refuse to conform to elitist attitudes and dirt bags. Also, side note, "git good" makes you sound like an idiot and an unoriginal wanker.

Actually you already can deactivate the Echo buff by simply clicking on the status icon at the top of the screen. Thus making this whole thread a storm in a teacup.

But yeah, I agree Maiko that the Echo is a necessary aspect of the game. Not all of us are elite hardcore players - in fact, this game is specifically designed for new players who have never played a MMO before. That is the design brief that SE decided on and thus it influences every aspect of the game, the Echo buff is simply one of these aspects. Like I said though, you can easily deactivate the Echo buff if it's really that much of a problem to you.