Improve the playerbase, add a built in DPS/HPS/AoE Fail meter

Every group that is successfully clearing the hardest content of every update is using ACT, or some other third party service, to measure DPS/HPS/Standing in fire/etc. It's essential information for a successful group in that content, and so a DPS meter is an essential tool.

I can't think of a single MMO, popular or not, that lived its life without any of its players using a DPS meter. It's as much a part of the MMO genre as anything else. FFXIV is one of, if not the, most modern MMO; and it has the subscription count to cement it as a very big MMO title; and yet, it lacks a mandatory tool for endgame.

Most of all, showing all players a way to measure their effectiveness in a group is very good for the game. Imagine the difference in competence between someone who leveled 1-60 oblivious to the idea of a parse vs someone who leveled 1-60 and monitored their parses the whole time. It creates a huge gap in the basic knowledge of playing well vs playing poorly.

A parser, especially when built-in, can result in a experience where players feel judged. It's a similar feeling that keeps certain players from picking up the tanking/healing role, so making DPS less comfortable to these players can result in them leaving the game. On the other hand, if a built-in parser is present, and is limited to work only in pre-made parties (if the leader enables it) or solo, I don't think it's too much of an issue.

A personal parser that only tracks yourself would go a long way. no harrassment, only benefits

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Originally Posted by LeeraSorlan

A personal parser that only tracks yourself would go a long way. no harrassment, only benefits

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This, if its personal, so you can improve yourself, yes. If its a tool like with WoW has where some players pick a number that others need to reach or else face harassment, NO PLEASE!

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Originally Posted by Vulcwen

A parser, especially when built-in, can result in a experience where players feel judged.

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Well duh. It's the same as if your boss was permanently eyeing over your shoulder at work or you got a widely visible camera monitoring you.

The whole point is to judge, namely whether you're slacking or not >_>

But then again it could be made where you can turn on and off you being seen on others charts at will....that way if in a static you can all turn it on and find out what needs to improve for each of you. Console players are at a massive disadvantage not having a way to parse than hope a pc player is willing to help

I don't see the need for a parser. i usually can see who is slacking off just fine without one.

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Originally Posted by Blitzace

I don't see the need for a parser. i usually can see who is slacking off just fine without one.

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Parsers provide more than just DPS information. DPS/HPS/damage taken and from what sources; this is all extremely vital information, and the purpose of a meter goes far beyond shaming less skilled players, and is in fact a necessity for a group tackling progression content with feedback that will better prepare them for subsequent attempts.

People need to get off their high horse about respecting these nebulous groups of players who will be intimidated by seeing the math they produce in game, and instead contemplate the practical and positive effects of teaching players how to study a parser from level 1.

Or you could accept that casual raiders exist.Some of them have jobs and lives.Don't want to spend 24/7 studying fights and rotations for small increases in dps.The 1% of the final fantasy population who think parsers are important need to accept that they are not.Most people play the game for fun.This is not an esport like dota or something and never will be.Quit trying to bully other players into your own standards.

Personal parsers i can get behind.But not full party parsers which most of you would use to act like a-holes to most of the games population over any fight be it raid or not.If a player is afking or doing something disruptive to the party on purpose it's quite easy to see.And if you claim you need a parser for that then you're stupid in the first place and lack common sense.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Well duh. It's the same as if your boss was permanently eyeing over your shoulder at work or you got a widely visible camera monitoring you.

The whole point is to judge, namely whether you're slacking or not >_>

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Well maybe some people don't like others constantly looking over their shoulder that way. It can get distracting.

I can see it now- this idea becomes into fruition and the amount of chaos it'd cause. Regardless of who's slacking off or not, some people aren't too fond of trying to make numbers skyrocket. People have other things to do other than grind for gear and other resources to be number 1 in the numbers. And so what? This gets enabled and now everyone and their mother thinks they're Gods among men and become A-holes. It's nice if it's personal but as a full implement, I can see how much chaos it'd cause. I do understand though; it could be used in genuine teaching, but you got to consider that a majority of the players on here wouldn't think of it in the same light as you and would misuse it.

tl;dr Nice idea for personal use, not as a default dungeon use.

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Originally Posted by Blitzace

I don't see the need for a parser. i usually can see who is slacking off just fine without one.

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Sure. You are the super pro and you can see everything.

If your achievements would prove your godess like skill, maybe I would believe you.

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Originally Posted by LeeraSorlan

A personal parser that only tracks yourself would go a long way. no harrassment, only benefits

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I was just thinking the same thing, and then I read this comment. That's exactly how I feel.
I don't care about how much DPS other people are doing or whatever mistakes they are making (I don't need some 3rd-party program to see who is and isn't pulling their weight.)

As long as I know I am doing all I can to make the party successful, I'm not worried.

Don't know what to say but most players struggling with their DPS/HPS/whatever are almost ever ignoring some or all of their job mechanics. Tell these people to use their whole toolset would be way better then any parser out now.
You can't use a parser without knowing of how the parameters are working and what they are saying and the poeple i mentioned before don't seem like they could do that they get just more confused cause they don't know how to read it.
Playing by 80-90% effectiveness should be way enough for a casual player.

I would like to see a scoreboard at the end of a duty with personal rankings in the most important parameters of a class/job instead of a parser or a blunt DPS-meter.

Just my thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Legion88

Don't know what to say but most players struggling with their DPS/HPS/whatever are almost ever ignoring some or all of their job mechanics. Tell these people to use their whole toolset would be way better then any parser out now.

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The point of showing them the hard number of a DPS/HPS parse would be to illuminate players as to why it matters that they use their whole kit rather than ignoring bits of it because they didn't seem like they'd be very influential. The parse doesn't judge anyone; it's only a result. All this chatter about the game turning into a mud slinging battle ground of e-peen wars is purely conjecture.

Just going to chime in that HPS in XIV is a pretty useless metric, still need to look at it with overheal% and DPS.

Edit: People, who want to judge you based on your DPS numbers, are already doing so. They don't need an official parser for that. I doubt an official parser would change much on that matter.

If you think this is gonna work with this community or any other you're dreaming.
I personally could give two craps about someones DPS in a dungeon or trial or what ever easy-sleep induced content we do.
But when we lack the DPS on a extreme fight or end game content, i honestly often do not need a parser to see who's lacking.

Sure it'll help but it will do more bad than good. People will start to bitch more and more at little stupid stuff.

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Originally Posted by Blitzace

But when we lack the DPS on a extreme fight or end game content, i honestly often do not need a parser to see who's lacking.

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Sure. When you do content to a time where everybody outgeared it like hell and people have to play really bad to run into the enrage, than you can see who is bad. Thats not hard.

You should do extreme and "end game" content when its relevant and just a little bit is missing. You will not see who is not pulling out enough DPS.

But as long you don't do that kind content during the time it is relevant, you can't understand how wrong you are.

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

Or you could accept that casual raiders exist.Some of them have jobs and lives.Don't want to spend 24/7 studying fights and rotations for small increases in dps.The 1% of the final fantasy population who think parsers are important need to accept that they are not.Most people play the game for fun.This is not an esport like dota or something and never will be.Quit trying to bully other players into your own standards.

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Actually, if you spend 1-2 hours (not 24/7 as you ignorantly state) learning and practicing a good rotation, your DPS will increase which will result in you completing content faster and give you more time to be...casual. On the contrary, if you refuse to give even the slightest effort in improving yourself because you think it's for no-lifers (again, an ignorant statement. Multiple members of Elysium, the number one world-first hardcore raid group, either work full time or work part time while in school; some also have families/significant others), then you will spend 40+ minutes in expert dungeons doing dps that was considered good back in 2.x.

Ironically, eschewing your "casual" mindset would give you more time for the "jobs and lives" you speak of.

To those saying it is not needed.... That is not the real point though, personal parsers would only benefit the user as many players do not actually notice how they do, having numbers in front of them would open their eyes really.
Seeing hit numbers from attacks that players do on screen is not at all the "Big Picture".

I wouldn't mind a personal parser to see how I'm doing. I'm always looking to improve my game, but there should absolutely not be a group parser. There are already toxic people in the DF; we don't need to give them more ammo for trolling.

This "fear of the parse troll" is purely conjecture. It's really a fear of something that will objectively tell you that you're not performing well enough for certain content.

That savage PuG has at least one player running a group parse.
That extreme PuG has at least one player running a group parse.

Every group doing endgame content is already using a meter. If you're subbing into their group, they can already see your DPS. The only people unaware of the damage numbers in that group are those who think a meter is pointless or unnecessary. Having a personal meter, or even a group meter, would not encourage "meter trolls". Anyone whose prerogative is to "meter troll" people is already using a meter.

Additionally, having access to your own numbers is an objective counter to anyone attempting to chastise you for your performance in a fight. All I'm sensing from those opposed to a built in meter is a fear of being measured; which is completely silly.

Parsers wouldn't only be abused by elitist players. Do you know how many bad tanks would blame you for low numbers because you were busy surviving because the tank doesn't know how to flash? Bad or good players will start fights if they can see actual proof regardless of situation. Void arc would be a nightmare.

Parsers are a terrible idea. I want this game to actually succeed, not die.

As someone who plays a lot of AST and other healers, I can assure you I'm always parsing my dungeons to know who will benefit more from cards or who is worthy of a rez if they do crap (especially for void ark).
And I can assure everyone here that everytime you'll go in a Ex farm group, Down group or other same-type content, there will be a parse running, and if you under-perform, you'll get the boot.
It's already something vastly implemented, an in-game would atleast put everyone on the same level.
For the personal parse, well, it's pointless. I can do 500 dps on my character on a trial, next week, I do 600 dps, yay I'm good, meanwhile other players do 1k and I'm unaware of that.
Those numbers only have value if they're put in comparison with each other.
And for people complaining that it would be an attack against casual players, I'll have to ask, why do casual players can get a free pass to underperform?
One player not doing its job means 7 other players having to compensate, and when you're trying a down for a primal/savage and keep hitting enrage or getting short to it because one player is doing half its job, then you can atleast show him the crude reality of the numbers.
And I can assure you from experience that a lot of players I know has been improving themselves once they started using a parse, because they saw that they had a lot of improvement available.
Someone that don't want to try doing the best it can for a group is just a leecher, and you don't need to play 24/7 to be good at your class and improve.

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Originally Posted by Kaenbyou

It's already something vastly implemented, an in-game would atleast put everyone on the same level.

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No it would not. Parsers are objectively a third party program forbidden by the terms of use, just like bots or any other program you can imagine. SE's own terms forbid parser usage. The only reason people have an advantage via third party programs (from parsers over boss mods to bots) is because SE is not enforcing their own rules. And as long as SE keeps doing that, some people will always have an advantage. Gradual implementation of every third party program out there into the base game does not solve the issue - and believe me, I'd love an inbuilt gathering/crafting bot because I really dislike that content. The only solution here is for SE to actually enforce their own rules. Which, I think, nobody currently violating them wants.

Without a group parser how does someone know how far from the ceiling their skill can take them? Like I could see a Mnk doing 1k does some changes starts doing 1.2k but stops improving not knowing they could get to 1,600 with their gear.

Not saying put an active group DPS.

Give everyone a essentially a in game Social security number.

You can go to a ranking board, of say sephirot extreme. Look up your job see where you stand in the world. Now imagine this MnK sees their 1.2k is enough to beat it and they weren't carried. But they see their like 99th place on the server for that fight, and sees a MNK did 1,650. They will KNOW they have plenty of more room for improvement without an active group parser.

personal parser only, here is the issue. Player X is a NIN and he consistently does 800 DPS now, it is released, he makes some changes and now does 1000 DPS. He sees he improved and stays doing same number consistently and thinks he is fine. What he does not know is he should be doing 1400 or more. Without seeing the rest of your groups numbers too, or some comparison to others on the same job in the same instance (within a similar ilv too i guess) just seeing the numbers is not enough.

when raiding as a PS4 player, I absolutely hate it when the PC members of my static are not parsing and giving numbers out consistently because I can make every tweak and change in the world and gain 2-5% dps (or maybe even more) and not really be able to tell at all on any individual run. Add in that multiple people are making changes and your DPS may go up but someone else tried somethign that was not good and hurt their dps to a net wash, you both may stay with the new way or may both go back, or worst case I go back and they stay with the new way and your raid dps just went down. When your enraging at 10% on vortexer in a6s, unless you have numbers for each pull to see who is doing what and how player X's DPS changes as they try to make an adjustment to rotations around fights to know if it actually helped or not, you waste soo much time not knowing.

No matter how you look at it, these numbers are a vital part to doing any relevant end game content, and anyone who thinks they are not needed and can tell without them are lieing to themselves and are likely just afraid they may find out they have been wrong about there play all along.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

Sure. When you do content to a time where everybody outgeared it like hell and people have to play really bad to run into the enrage, than you can see who is bad. Thats not hard.

You should do extreme and "end game" content when its relevant and just a little bit is missing. You will not see who is not pulling out enough DPS.

But as long you don't do that kind content during the time it is relevant, you can't understand how wrong you are.

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You are beyond clueless. Think i've done more content when it was "relevant" than you ever will do.
If you need a parser so you can see who is screwing up i think you're missing a few things.

I've done plenty of content with DPS checks and i could always tell who was the weak link. With perfect numbers like parsers? No obviously not. But you're a FOOL if you think an ingame parser will do this game ANY good.
I've seen more players being rammed into the ground than i've seen good things from it.

Do i care if people parse? Nah. I'm never the one that is being shouted at, But i see how other people treat one and other when something goes wrong.
I'm sure you're looking for a way to do that without you know... publicly admitting you're parsing.

Numbers opening people eyes? Ha! What are you a comedian? Last time i gave a PLD advice how to tank something in a 50 dungeon that would make it easier for the entire group he said i should shut up as he knew his job perfectly enough without my smart ass comments.

Yes, those numbers are really gonna open people's eyes. Nah, just harassment and idiots screaming YOU'RE DPS IS TO LOW /votekick. And you damn well know thats how its gonna be.

These topics are never about getting in-game parsers. You can already very easily get them. This topic is about wanting them to be acceptable by SE so that people can use them to harass people not pulling their weight. I don't mind that so much as I mind dirty liars with that hidden agenda like OP, here.

Not even gonna read all the comments! NO NO NO! an ingame parser is a bad idea please dont ask for this. I've seen first hand what "rating" others can do for a static/fc. At first it was nice to know that I play my roll well and can put out high numbers cool new high score right, but no body ever talks about how ugly it can get. This game has never been about the numbers once you stick a mandatory arbitrary number to it it stops being fun. Final Fantasy 14 has been about Jolly Cooperation with its community not some high rollers club.

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Originally Posted by Ciri_Wolf

These topics are never about getting in-game parsers. You can already very easily get them. This topic is about wanting them to be acceptable by SE so that people can use them to harass people not pulling their weight. I don't mind that so much as I mind dirty liars with that hidden agenda like OP, here.

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Amen.

I like how everyone just sweeps it under the rug. I've seen more parsers talk shit about someone that praising them for their gameplay. Now imagine if it would be made in game. People be whining on the forums to remove the kick cooldown every single day.

"Ohh i wanna kick this new player cause he's only dealing X dps"

Grow up, So many times where i as the tank out DPS players or i keep up. Does that make me kick them? Nope i just accept not everyone pushes their DPS to the limits, some people play it casual. they enjoy the game they don't wanna crunch the numbers to they deal max dps in dungeon were it is not needed.

I see how its usefull in endgame raids/statics etc. not for every day use though.

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Originally Posted by Blitzace

Amen.

I like how everyone just sweeps it under the rug. I've seen more parsers talk shit about someone that praising them for their gameplay. Now imagine if it would be made in game. People be whining on the forums to remove the kick cooldown every single day.

"Ohh i wanna kick this new player cause he's only dealing X dps"

Grow up, So many times where i as the tank out DPS players or i keep up. Does that make me kick them? Nope i just accept not everyone pushes their DPS to the limits, some people play it casual. they enjoy the game they don't wanna crunch the numbers to they deal max dps in dungeon were it is not needed.

I see how its usefull in endgame raids/statics etc. not for every day use though.

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This so much I agree with you 100%

It's a tool of information to be used.

All of this information is already available to be seen. You can look through your combat log. It's all there.

But somehow adding it all together nice and neatly would create some kind of noob mass shaming, kicking, and hazing?

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Originally Posted by Vulcwen

A parser, especially when built-in, can result in a experience where players feel judged. It's a similar feeling that keeps certain players from picking up the tanking/healing role, so making DPS less comfortable to these players can result in them leaving the game.

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The question now is, why do tanks and healers get the eye of judgement and DPS can smash their faces on their keyboards and call it a day?
It's very easy to spot when a tank or a healer doesn't perform well. And to the extremes you can usually pick out a DPS that isn't either. But you still don't have parity between the roles. Why is it that a tank or healer has to suffer the loss of their entire party while a DPS can be carried by his co-DPS? All the while mindlessly pressing buttons without any indication he's doing something incorrectly or inefficiently?

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Originally Posted by Canadane

But you still don't have parity between the roles.

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And I doubt you even can - A DRK can do his primary job with nothing but unleash and maybe his aggro combo for bosses - WAR and PLD aren't much more demanding to do the bare minimum. Only one positional to care about as well (Face the enemies away from the party). Healers can typically do their role with no more than 5 buttons as well (Though Regen and Cure II suffice for the most part). Now try the same as DPS.

Healing and tanking are so much less complex than DPSing that most healers and tanks actually DPS themselves out of sheer boredom. Parity where?!

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Originally Posted by Ciri_Wolf

These topics are never about getting in-game parsers. You can already very easily get them. This topic is about wanting them to be acceptable by SE so that people can use them to harass people not pulling their weight. I don't mind that so much as I mind dirty liars with that hidden agenda like OP, here.

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Are you this deluded? ACT causes framerate issues; and it's very limited when trying to share the information with a group; which means every detail needs to be spelled out in group chat or spoken over voice chat. Having a single meter that the whole group is looking at makes dissecting that information and utilizing it infinitely easier. People like you need to STFU about your "parse troll" boogeyman and let the rest of the playerbase rise to new level of progression.

The PS4 Player base wants a parser too. How is that not an understood thing?

I have literally made a list of all the items I would need to build a new PC today and yesterday. Gotten the best possible discounts I could get for it and loaded it into the online provider's various carts. Right as I'm about to buy the PC, I think of how I like how my setup is on my PS4. My macros, my hotbars, the way it records retroactively, the amazing SSD loading time and the lack of any real errors (a real 90x.) I would be spending two weeks of pay to just build a computer that can parse for me. That doesn't even include FFXIV ARR and HW Expansions that I would have to buy (for the third time. PS3->PS4->PC.)

I am 100% OK with a personal parser. I want to be be able to track my HPS and DPS on a tank and make it as wonderful to explore as an FFLog.

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Originally Posted by Ciri_Wolf

These topics are never about getting in-game parsers. You can already very easily get them. This topic is about wanting them to be acceptable by SE so that people can use them to harass people not pulling their weight. I don't mind that so much as I mind dirty liars with that hidden agenda like OP, here.

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You got me. All these parsers I have on my PS4. Give me an illegal one and I'll use it the hell out of it. ALSO, harassment is a breach of the ToS.
Person A) Noticing how slow the run is going, A parses and notices that a DPS is under-performing. Doesn't say anything.
Person B) Noticing how slow the run is going, B parses and notices that a DPS is under-performing. Suggests keeping up your Heavy Thrust (If the DPS was a Dragoon.)
Person C) Noticing how slow the run is going, C parses and notices that a DPS is under-performing. Tells them to get better at their job or C will kick them and that they suck.
Person D) Noticing how slow the run is going, D does not have a parser. Doesn't say anything.
Person E) Noticing how slow the run is going, D does not have a parser. D assumes that a DPS is under-performing. Tells them to get better at their job or C will kick them and that they suck.

Who performed harassment and who did not?
If you said C and E you are correct! If you said C,E AND B, you are being too sensitive at the critique of others. B is not harassment.

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Originally Posted by Blitzace

Amen.
Grow up, So many times where i as the tank out DPS players or i keep up. Does that make me kick them? Nope i just accept not everyone pushes their DPS to the limits, some people play it casual. they enjoy the game they don't wanna crunch the numbers to they deal max dps in dungeon were it is not needed.

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The fact that you can look at a parse and make the judgement to not say anything, is more choice than any ps4 player has. If the DPS had access to a parser and WANTED to out DPS you as the tank, as a goal, I think they could learn to beat that tank.

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Originally Posted by Destous

Are you this deluded? ACT causes framerate issues; and it's very limited when trying to share the information with a group; which means every detail needs to be spelled out in group chat or spoken over voice chat. Having a single meter that the whole group is looking at makes dissecting that information and utilizing it infinitely easier. People like you need to STFU about your "parse troll" boogeyman and let the rest of the playerbase rise to new level of progression.

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Looks like I hit the nail on the head with how angry you got.

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Originally Posted by Ciri_Wolf

Looks like I hit the nail on the head with how angry you got.

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Accusing someone else of being a closet misanthrope/fervent troll, and then receiving an angry response doesn't suddenly validate what you've said.

Having one player out of a hundred groups mention your DPS isn't being trolled.

A parse troll would be someone spitting your DPS numbers into the chat, and then chastising your for pulling a number that they don't think is up to snuff; and then they boot you before you have a chance to respond. That's being trolled, and you'll be relieved to know that it's all captured in the chat log and can be sent directly to SE through player support via a report. From there, a real live person will address your ticket in time and dish out the appropriate justice. There are already means within the game to deter bad actors from being bad actors.

So keep the hyperbole to yourself.