I had a few ideas in my head about content in the world. I miss when Odin and Behemoth were relevant to me, but with no additional rewards, I usually don't bother. Hunts are also limited in rewards and can be zerged so hard that the hunt target is dead in mere seconds leaving little enjoyment. So what can be done?
First I want to point out some of the fights I found enjoyable, not based on reward, but the feeling of a large scale fight seeming more achieved than others.
Gorgimera. This fate in Northern Thanalan usually requires a large number of people to take down, and with his mechanics requiring people to pay attention to his casts, he can wipe out many of those that come to challenge him in an instant. I remember when I was first fighting him, the desperate attempts to get people back on their feet and keep him busy. I loved that feeling. The battlefield was a total mess.
Odin. His appearances are rare, and they were enjoyable still when he remained kind of mysterious to me, when the weather signaling his arrival created an eerie tone in the Black Shroud. Players shouting to each other to coordinate Limit Breaks at the end while he cast Zantetsuken in hopes they could avoid having to be completely annihilated if they failed to stop it.
The hunts, while it was their intention or not, have failed to really bring this type of dangerous feeling. The sense of accomplishment seems mostly lost after defeating them, and players quickly just move to the next target.
I started thinking that more world bosses, who are less predictable as far as their arrivals, with various mechanics to keep players attentive and busy, would be nice to have more of. Coeurlregina and Proto Ultima almost felt like this, but still didn't quite fulfill that same feeling. The rewards are still very limited.
What if there was also a map, that could only be accessed at a certain time, or weather, or other conditions coming together that it allowed access and it was some sort of server wide dungeon. Or maybe have it take place on existing maps. Players would coordinate across the map to achieve certain objectives and move in to kill the boss. No queuing, no waiting. Just put out the shouts, build parties, and get it done. It could give the feeling of amassing an army. Players in large numbers spread out across the map taking strongholds or enemy lieutenants to weaken the boss and expose him for the final fight. Keeping rewards stocked and refreshed with different items from time to time could help make it relevant. Or maybe it would be fun enough to continue to participate in. At this time we really don't have a lot of large scale server cooperative content like that. Make it less of a zerg, more of a major battle.
Would anyone be interested in something like this?
Server sized PVE content....could it work?
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04-22-2016, 02:42 AModieServer sized PVE content....could it work?
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04-22-2016, 02:52 AMwhythehate
This sounds very much like besieged from ffxi, that was a a lot of fun whilst also affecting the in game world
(Npcs could be captured, you would lose benefits such as the teleport npc)
The only way to get them back was to invade the enemy stronghold after to rescue them :D -
04-22-2016, 02:53 AMRiceisNice
PS3 Limitations. Not even kidding, there were problems with bosses rendering on screen during Odin or 2.x A/S ranks when they were new. Anything that encourages a server-wide partcipating would be next to impossible for players on the low-end specs.
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04-22-2016, 02:54 AMwhythehatePs2 managed it >.>Quote:
Originally Posted by RiceisNice
Lel @ angry ppl. -
04-22-2016, 02:59 AMRiceisNiceFFXIV isn't on PS2. I'm talking about FFXIV world content, not FFXI's besiege. We've already had things that resemble world encounters (hunts, odin and behemoth) and it's already a mess for Ps3 players. And I believe this was even the case for Diadem of all places that players couldnt render the NMs on their screen.Quote:
Originally Posted by whythehate
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04-22-2016, 03:00 AMMilesSaintboroguhWell this ain't the PS2 now, is it? As Rice said, PS3 users couldn't see Odin or Behemoth when the entire server zerged them, even after the devs try to put in some band aid solutions. Regardless of such limitations, the whole idea just sounds like an even bigger hunt system with even more drama since people can't communicate or work in massive groups as it was proven time and time again.Quote:
Originally Posted by whythehate
We will never get nice things. -
04-22-2016, 03:00 AMAshkendorFFXI wasn't nearly as graphics intensive as FFXIV is though. I lag even on a gaming rig when there's hundreds of people at S ranks.Quote:
Originally Posted by whythehate
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04-22-2016, 03:04 AMdementiondrivethat was not a PS3 issue though. me building a high end PC that had a 7950 video card at the time. i even had a issue rendering odin at the start of 2.0. Yoshida even said it was their end on priority. the boss was not priority. later on the priority changed to.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiceisNice
1. boss
2. party (if in one)
3. other players/NPCs
before it rendered others instead of giving Odin and Behemoth priority.
so no this one was not PS3 limitations. -
04-22-2016, 03:08 AMRiceisNiceEven after priority changes (such as hunts and odin), players (and I can personally attest to this when playing on a low end machine) still had issues with bosses being rendered if there was a huge player clutter. There's even issues similar to this that go as late as diadem.Quote:
Originally Posted by dementiondrive
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04-22-2016, 03:08 AMKaishaDid you even do Besiege during its prime? It was a lagtastic mess where you'd run around seeing zero enemies regardless of system, and then get one-shotted by something not recorded in the battle log because the server couldn't keep up with the 500+ players in a single zone.Quote:
Originally Posted by whythehate
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04-22-2016, 03:14 AModieI actually played on PS3 from the beginning until they released Alexander Savage after Heavensward. While things wouldn't load on the screen properly, it was mostly fixed when they changed the load priority. I still enjoyed Odin just as much. I felt like spreading objectives across the map could reduce the load on lesser systems.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiceisNice
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04-22-2016, 03:17 AMIbiNot really. Or... not at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by whythehate
Even a decent PC would struggle to display any players or NPCs beyond a certain (relatively small) distance in Beseiged, and you were constantly dying to NPCs and/or attacks that never showed up on your screen. -
04-22-2016, 03:47 AModie
Still, to be quite honest players will want new content, different content than what we have had before and for the game to be any bigger or offer up anything like competitors may offer. In doing this people will be left behind and need to upgrade. I think its better to be left out of some content instead of SE shutting people out of the entire game for not meeting performance specs. PS3 worked fine at the beginning of 2.0. After each patch it slowed down and kept getting worse. If you can afford to upgrade, you should. I know not everyone can, but after making the switch myself, I can't imagine how I put up with such a slow system before. PS3 users shouldn't keep the rest of the players from enjoying something new just because they themselves can't enjoy it.
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04-22-2016, 04:16 AMMistyMewExactly!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisha
As for op suggestions, tbh i dont think the servers could handle it nor would it be designed to be user friendly or fluid. That doesnt mean I wouldnt enjoy something like besieged here, because i would!!
But would things function properly for the vast majority? I doubt that very much. :( -
04-22-2016, 05:03 AMMilesSaintboroguhUnless the PS3 user base starts to rapidly dwindle, Square is not going to pull support anytime soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by odie
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04-22-2016, 05:28 AMLambdafishActually the official response is:Quote:
Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh
Yoshida: "That will depend on how long people continue to play on the PS3. I've mentioned in the presentation this morning that I want to make sure that "FFXIV continues to innovate", and there's certainly the possibility that whatever innovation we seek will come with certain technical requirements. For example in EQN, which I mentioned earlier, it would not be possible to realize certain things like physic-based gameplay without meeting the hardware prerequisites. So if this becomes something that players want and we start to see people leave for rival products, then we can't just sit around twiddling our thumbs either. After all, we too need to ensure we have the necessary weapons to take on other MMORPGs in the future.
For example, if we were to have a large-scale FATE where players can ride on a flying mount and freely fly around and swoop down at a dragon that is 200 meters long, players would probably be impressed and entertained. However, it would also require us to raise the minimum requirement when it comes to hardware specs.
Our aim has always been to develop the game so that players can have the same experience no matter which hardware they play on. However, if we were to become too fixated on this and become unable to innovate, then this will cease to be a FF game. So I do not plan to say that we will support the PS3 version forever. At the same time, I'm not saying that we'll be ending support by next year or anything like that either, so don't worry."
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...p_features_of/ -
04-22-2016, 08:14 AMWelsper59Most ideas about additional PvE content aren't so much about interest, as it is the realistic possibility it'd be made. The interest is almost always there, but many of us know it's going to be a horrible situation that ends up dulling the content right out of the gate. The servers, for example, won't handle open world content that requires strategy. As others have noted, S Rank Hunts are a prime example of the issues we'd face.Quote:
Originally Posted by odie
A lot of folks might be up for the idea of some form of complex combat, but negative aspects of it end up resulting in people accepting the zerg. If there's a strategy behind an encounter, we need to throw more people at it to overpower it so that we can complain about how faceroll it is that we can have 200+ people lagging an encounter to victory. Maybe some wanted to try it as intended, but once the "norm" (the zerg) is established, they'll forget about that interest rather quick most of the time.
But as I stated, the first and foremost problem is the technical limitations. Until the servers can handle hundreds of people in a zone fighting a mob without lagging us to hell, it's essentially another S Hunt. When they're past that, then comes the problem of how we treat open world content. Even things like Gorg and Odin were essentially zergs. Practically no one bothered with adds on Gorg (anyone who did, usually died) and Odin was just switching targets... where a large amount of people didn't even know what they were doing, aka zerging.
Given that you enjoyed those FATEs, I'd imagine what you're looking for is something akin to Frontlines, but PvE and mob based or even a form of Diadem. Mass mayhem, essentially. Truth be told, that's still a zerg lol. However, just because it is, doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun. I mean, Frontlines type of PvP in any game is generally the most popular and liked.