troll tank or newb?

Sunken Temple of Qarn, "Paladin", no Sword Oath, Flashed mobs once, healer was tanking more than tank was... never responded to chat, even when using the translator. i pulled out titan to help tank and after a grueling hour long run we finally make it to the stone tablets to open the last door... i know the sequence Flame > Fruit, tank runs up, and pulls the flame tablet and hits the button to activate it... More mobs, more healer tanking...

It was just the weirdest group i've had in a very long time. We couldn't believe that between 2 dps and healer we pretty much completed the dungeon on our own, the "tank" seemed to be more adversary than aide... So does he sound like he was trolling or just beyond clueless and unwilling/unable to accept help? i mean Qarn is like level 35... how do you get there and not know how to do the basics? He was not a green leaf player either.

Probably not trolling. Some people are just bad. Also some ppl refuse to take any criticism. I usually find that it depends on how the criticism is given. If it's kind, usually they respond well. If it's derogatory, then it's usually ignored or met with, "Don't tell me how to play my job."

We tried to be nice at first... after the first two wipes on the first boss, explaining DOOM to him each time before the fight, only to have him die to the first DOOM, and never try to tank the bees, well, our patience wore out, and turned to determined silence for most of the rest of the run. Titan tanked the first boss after we kept losing the "tank"... that's how we killed that one.

If he was just bad, he needs to rethink his life choice... or go back to tank school. It was so bad it was almost like he was trying to be bad. That's why i think troll.

I suspect the player was probably new.

Or young.

Or drunk.

Or high.

Really, though, if they were that bad, you should have vote-kicked. As you all managed to complete it without the tank's help anyway, it would have sent a palpable message that what they were doing was unacceptable.

New players often don't know things a lot, so you guys were in the right. I had one Gladiator tell me that the person who was teaching her how to tank told her to only use Rage of Halone--and not the combo. But the fact that they weren't responding to /p tells me that in addition to any greenness, they were also dumb/stubborn. If you can't accept correction, especially if you're new/learning, then you don't have any business tanking, imo.

Not sure why we never discussed vote kicking... we did explain each boss fight and how the heads have to die on plates, but in the end it made no difference, we got those things done in spite of our "tank". Its frustrating when you are trying so hard, and explaining and getting absolutely zero response, and yet there was this moment, when we had opened the two side rooms where the last two tablets are. Tank was running ahead to the next mobs after without clearing those rooms, we type "hey we need to clear these two rooms" and he came back... So it feels like he was reading, and comprehending something, but definitely not acting on much, ie not taking tanking advice from us, or boss fight advice... but he came back and cleared those rooms with us... so weird. Sorry, i am going on about this, its just the strangest run i've had in a long long time. it feels wrong.

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

But the fact that they weren't responding to /p tells me that in addition to any greenness, they were also dumb/stubborn.

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Not excusing tank's behavior, but if someone isn't responding to /p, they might be playing on a console without a keyboard and no experience with the translator.

I find the translator interface too clunky to use myself, although that may be because I use a PC.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Not excusing tank's behavior, but if someone isn't responding to /p, they might be playing on a console without a keyboard and no experience with the translator.

I find the translator interface too clunky to use myself, although that may be because I use a PC.

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Well OP suggests that they weren't even paying attention to what was being said. Console or no, if people are giving instruction in /p, you can respond by acting on what they're saying.

Except for that one time he came back to clear the two side rooms... there was no other indication that our words in /p made any difference to his actions. And the way he sprinted up to the tablets to change out the Flame one... and hit the button... It seemed so deliberate. the other dps called him out for that as we dealt with the mobs it spawned, but again no response, no emotes. He generally would beat on one mob, not sure if he was even doing his rotation.

As a new player, i wasn't even noticing chat. i wasn't even using it until i get to my first FC at level around 40. then i actually started to use chat, or even read what the write to me.

Anyway, you impress me, that you didnt vote-kick/abandon. actually 30 min penalty and making another run in sunken within 30 min, would give same time, but less nerves.

Yeah, i had already waited 20 mins for the run (which for a dps queue, isn't as bad as some i have heard). I am more surprised that our healer was willing to stick it out. She was well geared, probably 60, i didn't check, maybe it was her roulette. I was just trying to get my next level and actually did. Its funny, in the end we did beat the dungeon... i remember saying "We win!" and the other dps saying something like "i can't believe we pulled this off" I even got a commendation. But it was grueling.. Funny isn't it that sometimes our biggest challenge is not the dungeon or the bosses therein, but rather its the other players, when they don't play their role correctly. I don't care about well or best, just correctly. Sword or Shield Oath up, flash sometimes, actually be aware of the fight, ie what mobs are doing around you... and the fact that healer is kiting two back and forth in front of you.... things like that.

Sounds like you just got a dumbass, then.

There's a mentality I've noticed sometimes in new tanks where they assume other players don't know what tanking is or how to tank. They do their best to figure out the job and role on their own, often missing a lot of things about it, and then won't take anyone's advice when they're in an instance, unless they clearly fail, or unless it pertains to the instance itself.

One of the first instances I healed on my WHM was with such a tank. It was a MRD who couldn't be bothered to use Overpower, who didn't use any cooldowns, and who skipped patrolling mobs to let me tank them all. We asked several times for these things in /p, but the player didn't seem to hear any of it. Eventually our THM left, and I followed suit so I could re-queue.

Stuff like this happens you just need to vote kick it's not rude or mean just the tank isn't doing their role. Tanking. Qarn is terrible for paladins as a lot of dps and healers get blood for blood and regens which accumulate a lot of threat. If it makes you feel any better I had a lvl 40 gladiator who never unlocked paladin in stone vigil. Everyone left but me to tell him he needs to unlock paladin and he actually listened.

I have a strong suspicion that he or she was simply new, and I don't mean just new to FFXIV. I mean new to MMO's.

Most of the time, when I see players make massive errors such as this it usually has to do with them being completely ignorant of what they are supposed to be doing, let alone how they are supposed to be doing it. If they've never been in an MMO with established roles before, then they're basically blind. If they were playing on console it's even worse, because the controls are not nearly as intuitive as on a mouse and keyboard (you can't just point, click, and type). The fact that they didn't respond to chat is another indicator. They probably didn't know how to work the chat box. I had a similar problem when I first started playing FFXIV on Ps4. It was a pretty steep learning curve just trying to figure out how to work all of the computer designed features, let alone trying to figure out how to actually work my job.

Correct definition of troll tank in FF XIV stands like that:

A player with a class of Gladiator, Marauder, or with a job of Dark Knight. Despite the fact their job is to lead party and holding enmity of enemies met during exploration of the dungeon [...] will force party to deal with the following problems:
1. A player tank will not use job stance available on lvl 30 (for current classes available).
2. A player tank will not engage enemies, waiting for party members to do that.
3. A player tank will hold enmity of only one enemy out of pack.
4. A player tank will be using heavily underleveled gear (this cannot be confirmed by party members and party memebers should never bully player tank for beeing undergeared).
5. A player tank will not respond in chat, or will respond in a way unable to clarify, what was meant to be said.

As you can see, this could be a sprout definition as well, so tbh, this is actually really hard checking, if you had Troll, or just newb. :(

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Not excusing tank's behavior, but if someone isn't responding to /p, they might be playing on a console without a keyboard and no experience with the translator.

I find the translator interface too clunky to use myself, although that may be because I use a PC.

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just incase you are unaware, you can begin typing the message of the auto translate (example: if you want to say thank you in auto translate you can type out thank) and then you can press TAB and it will bring up a list of words that begin with what you typed, being that there is only one thank you...typing thank and pressing tab will bring up thank you.

I've met a couple of those unfortunately. First one was in Copperbell, wouldn't have thought anything of the tank except they were a WAR level 35. They weren't using Overpower, they weren't using combos. They were only focusing on one enemy at a time and ignoring chat. I knew they knew chat was there because they spoke at the beginning of the dungeon. We wiped on the multi-man melee and proceeded to boot him.

In Qarn, I noticed the tank was having trouble keeping enmity due to only using combos to build aggro by rapidly switching enemies. He was doing good at it but I offered advice that Overpower would make things easier for him. He leaves that instant, luckily it was after the mobs died that he did this at the halfway marker in the stage.

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

... Also some ppl refuse to take any criticism. I usually find that it depends on how the criticism is given. If it's kind, usually they respond well. If it's derogatory, then it's usually ignored or met with, "Don't tell me how to play my job."

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This. Folks, if you want to give suggestions please try to keep it civil. Not everyone plays at the same level of skill and there are a lot of different ages in this game. Spitting out hate around helpful advice usually gets that helpful advice ignored.

Also, tanking in this game is very different than tanking in many other MMORPGs. It was something of a culture shock to realize the norm in FF14 was to aoe packs and let the dps target whatever they felt like. Many MMORPGs you have to be fairly strict in burning down one at a time and a tank's toolkit wouldn't be enough to hold aggro on more than one target. The idea that meta in FF14 is for tanks to dps as much as they do and to do so out of their mitigating stance is still somewhat crazy to me, almost 20 years of MMORPGs and this is the first that I've seen that.

The point of this post is that just because something is normal and expected for experienced players doesn't mean it is normal or expected for others. And in a PuG you have no idea if that person is new to the game, new to the role, new to dungeons in general. Patience helps with a lot of these situations.

Its really weird, got Qarn again... different tank, we get to the two rooms with tablets before the second boss, get the heads on plates to open them then he takes off without clearing them. I call him back saying "hey tank, we need to clear these rooms please come back", he comes back and says "i am not new, you don't have to tell me" then says he's going to vote kick me. I guess it didn't pass, because i was still in the group or he didn't do it. We get to room before second boss, he walks between the mobs to the boss room... i aggro them, more yelling at me. I've never not killed those. We kill them, then he announces "i have to pee!" he leaves us there for 5 mins waiting on his bodily function. We kill that boss finally, and move on...

cntd... getting to the second set of trash he now announces "i have to POOP!" and doesn't move. The healer says, get Titan out and tank those.... I do it, we clear the next 2 sets of trash mobs np. As we go up the stairs, tank comes running back, yelling at me about not waiting for him. Threatens to vote kick again... i apologize, we move on, and finally finish. I got 2 commendations... my luck with DF is amazing. amazingly bad.