Question about Tank stats

So Im a 58 DRK and im wondering how the stats work now. It used to be DEX would increase parry rate and STR affected the parry amount. Is this still the case?

As for main stat VIT, with 8+ parties, Ive been thinking about having some gear to increase my dps. Is STR a better stat for dmg or is VIT?

Parry rate is now flat 20% reduction. No stat increases that.

Both STR and VIT give 0.45 attack power I believe. At any rate, they are equal in the amount of damage given. And VIT also gives you health.

To answer all your questions in one post:

1) Dexterity and Strength no longer have any effects on Parry Rate/Strength, or Block Rate/Strength that they had back in early 2.0 days. Parry is a flat 20% reduction, and the score simply increases the chance to parry by an albeit small amount per point.

2) Vitality and Strength are now both considered "main stat" for tanks, as they both give the same Attack Power contribution that previously was reserved to Strength with a 1:1 ratio. Now it's 1 Vit = 1 Str = 0.450 AP. For the most part, you'll want to be using Vitality accessories because those pieces have a higher stat capacity for Vitality than an equivalent item level Strength piece has for Str.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

1 str = 0.45 attack power
1 vit = 1 str + 20 hp

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True. The question on that topic was specifically regarding increasing DPS, however. HP is a no-though-required byproduct of equipping higher item level gear, regardless of how that actually affects your damage output via secondary stats.

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Originally Posted by Klamor

1 Vit = 1 Str = 0.450 AP

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More accurately,

1 str = 0.45 attack power
1 vit = 1 str + 20 hp


So vit is strictly better.

When vit is capped and therefore not an option, meld str.

Does Dex still affect parry rate? Also does Dex affect evasion?

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Originally Posted by AzraelJames

Does Dex still affect parry rate? Also does Dex affect evasion?

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Neither. DEX is worthless now.

Not even evasion or accuracy? Ok Cause Im about to change my attributes thanks guys!

Dex on Accuracy was used in FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

Dex on Accuracy was used in FFXI.

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Can you imagine in this game if Dex affected Accuracy? Bards, Machinists and Ninjas would "never" need gear with Accuracy on them xD

(On that note... I wonder if the addition of NIN had any bearing on their decision of removing STR/DEX affecting parry potency/rate. Since their main stat would potentially have boosted their parry rates to insanity, I mean. Sure, Bard already 'did that', so to speak, but... Ranged vs Melee. I dunno. Just an idle thought.)

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

(On that note... I wonder if the addition of NIN had any bearing on their decision of removing STR/DEX affecting parry potency/rate. Since their main stat would potentially have boosted their parry rates to insanity, I mean. Sure, Bard already 'did that', so to speak, but... Ranged vs Melee. I dunno. Just an idle thought.)

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Doubt it. I suspect the changes to remove the Str/Dex effects on Parry and Block Strength/Rate were more an early (and misguided) attempt to kill the "Str over Vit" meta-game. A member of the design team may have erroneously though that tanks were going Str for the mitigation benefits rather than the damage benefits.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

More accurately,

1 str = 0.45 attack power
1 vit = 1 str + 20 hp


So vit is strictly better.

When vit is capped and therefore not an option, meld str.

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Are you seeing Vit capped with current gear? If so, how low can we have our character's base Vit to still get capped?

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Originally Posted by Red_Wolf

Are you seeing Vit capped with current gear? If so, how low can we have our character's base Vit to still get capped?

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Meldable gear have vit caps. The crafted 220 pieces and the current blues are vit-capped, but you can still meld strength to them.

The point is
Always wear vitality gear.
Meld Strength if possible.

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Originally Posted by Red_Wolf

Are you seeing Vit capped with current gear? If so, how low can we have our character's base Vit to still get capped?

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The stat caps are per item, not per character. Your character can go all base VIT and still not get capped on anything.

Still wondering if it affects evasion

Is there a good FAQ for game mechanics?

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Originally Posted by AzraelJames

Still wondering if it affects evasion

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You already got an answer to that:

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

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Originally Posted by AzraelJames

Does Dex still affect parry rate? Also does Dex affect evasion?

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Neither. DEX is worthless now.

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So no, it doesn't affect parry rate and it doesn't affect evasion.

Old good 2.0 had secondary stat based on primary stat like DEX affecting parry rate, STR affecting parry strength.

They nerfed it, however i still don't understand why.
Now secondary stats are based on current class, gear and melds.

EDIT: evasion is constant value now iirc.

So if there is no hard or soft caps on your own character attribute stats... is there any argument against using all your additional points on Vitality?

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Originally Posted by Red_Wolf

So if there is no hard or soft caps on your own character attribute stats... is there any argument against using all your additional points on Vitality?

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If you mean the 35 attribute bonus points, then you should put all of those into VIT. Anything else is a loss

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

If you mean the 35 attribute bonus points, then you should put all of those into VIT. Anything else is a loss

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That's what I thought, thanks.

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

If you mean the 35 attribute bonus points, then you should put all of those into VIT. Anything else is a loss

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Which begs the question... why do we even have the option to choose where to allocate points when there's one "right" answer and several "wrong" ones?

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus_Mercy

Which begs the question... why do we even have the option to choose where to allocate points when there's one "right" answer and several "wrong" ones?

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Because it used to matter, and now it doesn't, and they haven't bothered to change it

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

Because it used to matter, and now it doesn't, and they haven't bothered to change it

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And to give us an illusion of choice! Mustn't forget our precious illusions, you know.

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

Because it used to matter, and now it doesn't, and they haven't bothered to change it

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Can still allocate to VIT as a DPS/Healer to meet HP thresholds, though.

Also the whole MND/INT split for SCH/SMN.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Can still allocate to VIT as a DPS/Healer to meet HP thresholds, though.

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True. Though we'd still be able to do that through materia (if necessary) if stats were auto-allocated.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Also the whole MND/INT split for SCH/SMN.

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I... have to say that this is actually an argument against stat allocation. If they had stats auto-allocated, they could adjust the MND/INT balance depending on which job you had active. They wouldn't have to be class-based, but could be baked into the "bonus" to stats you get from the job stone.
(Speaking of which, I wonder how they solved that with the new jobs... Did they assign those three jobs a "dummy class" that's never applicable, but still manages to keep track of point allocation?)

My argument was more "since stat allocation does exist, there are still things you can use it for" since the person I replied to said it didn't matter anymore. It's generally an unnecessary system and how they handled SMN/SCH was a bit of a mess for anyone who wanted to play both (especially when Hymns weren't cheap). With how linear stat progression is the materia system is largely a waste as well. Both the stat allocation system and materia are simply an illusion of choice in the most fundamental sense, they could easily remove them and just give everyone base generic stats that did +HP, +damage, and +healing. It'd change basically nothing.

Anyway, that's another topic entirely. Basically they could do away with the system, sure, but while it's around it still has uses. Still does something, even if it's not that big of a deal.

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Originally Posted by Yuni_Queen

Old good 2.0 had secondary stat based on primary stat like DEX affecting parry rate, STR affecting parry strength.

They nerfed it, however i still don't understand why.
Now secondary stats are based on current class, gear and melds.

EDIT: evasion is constant value now iirc.

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I suspect Str and Dex influence on parry was changed due to a misunderstanding of why tanks were stacking Str over Vit. They might have thought that players believed that the mitigation benefits from extra strength were greater than the survivablity benefits granted by extra hp.

Well if yer DDK, INT could still affect dark spells, or MND for paladin healing?

No, they both scale off of attack power, unless you're talking about lolcure on PLD

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Doubt it. I suspect the changes to remove the Str/Dex effects on Parry and Block Strength/Rate were more an early (and misguided) attempt to kill the "Str over Vit" meta-game. A member of the design team may have erroneously though that tanks were going Str for the mitigation benefits rather than the damage benefits.

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STR/DEX effects on parry was removed as 3.0 hit I believe. And the "STR > VIT" meta was mostly because tanks knew they didn't have to have huge HP pool and could get away with even full STR setup.

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Originally Posted by AzraelJames

Well if yer DDK, INT could still affect dark spells, or MND for paladin healing?

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DRK as of now does have some magical attacks but you still take VIT accessories with STR melds in whenever you can because all of you hard hitting skills are physical. PLD's Clemency scales off total AP, Cure barely does anything much even if you stack full MND.

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Originally Posted by Sarcatica

STR/DEX effects on parry was removed as 3.0 hit I believe. And the "STR > VIT" meta was mostly because tanks knew they didn't have to have huge HP pool and could get away with even full STR setup.

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Which doesn't prevent the earlier STR/DEX removal from parry influence from having been at least partly because someone may have mistaken the STR tanks for wanting more parry strength instead of just wanting to do more damage, and thought that if we remove those, tanks will go back to VIT. If so, that person must have felt very foolish later on...

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Originally Posted by MerleSirlos

I seem to remember the str/dex removal from parry was from patch 2.4X or 2.5X.

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Originally Posted by 3.0 Patchnotes

[2.0] Player attributes have been adjusted as follows:

• Skilspeed and spellspeed now affect damage over time and healing over time effects.
• The effect of determination on auto-attacks has been reduced.
• Critical hit rate now affects damage dealt with a critical strike.
• Certain attributes no longer affect parry or block.

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As for your reasoning, it sounds like a likely reason. Still in a roundabout way promotes the reason "tanks allocated points in Str and wore Str accessories because Parry/Block strength".
(On a separate note, I'm getting kind of tired of the reason "too confusing" being flown about by SE. Fire/Fira/Firaga? Too confusing for En players, let's go with Fire1/Fire2/Fire3. Open glamour restrictions? Too confusing if tanks look... like... mages... moving-on-now! *grumbles*)

I seem to remember the str/dex removal from parry was from patch 2.4X or 2.5X. The main reason announced at the time was because stat allocation was "too confusing" for new players when playing tanks. Tanks were presented with a choice of allocating points in 3 different stats affecting your tanking ability, while other classes didn't.
Keep in mind one of the goals of the game is to make it accessible to new players (including players new to the MMO genre) and they tend to do that by removing choices (because you know, choices = difficult).

Youre saying INT doesnt affect dark spell damage? Cause my Vit gets capped all the time, I thought it might increase some spell dmg..

I just made a few tests with only Hyperconductive Nothung equipped:

Nothung: Unmend - average 250
Nothung + casting i210 accessories: Unmend - average 249

I quess it was RNG, but 210 full accessories should improve dmg at all. at least 5 i quess
So no, DRK has spell scaling purely with VIT and STR.

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Originally Posted by Yuni_Queen

I just made a few tests with only Hyperconductive Nothung equipped:

Nothung: Unmend - average 250
Nothung + casting i210 accessories: Unmend - average 249

I quess it was RNG, but 210 full accessories should improve dmg at all. at least 5 i quess
So no, DRK has spell scaling purely with VIT and STR.

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What accessories did you have on the first one? because changing VIT for INT accessories, if both affect damage, from your example I would say INT affect it.
If you didn't have any accessories equipped on the first try, please specify it.

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Originally Posted by MerleSirlos

What accessories did you have on the first one?

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None. First one was pure Nothung, second one were ilvl 210 casting accessories.
Except weapon, no other gear was used during first test.

I think Unmend scales from attack power(vit/str) and magic damage (on your weapon)
So int is useless

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Originally Posted by Sarcatica

STR/DEX effects on parry was removed as 3.0 hit I believe. And the "STR > VIT" meta was mostly because tanks knew they didn't have to have huge HP pool and could get away with even full STR setup.

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The "Str > Vit" meta did exist during 2.X it just got worse in 3.0 and 3.1. I'm just inferring that a misunderstand on SE's part about why Str was being chosen over Vit might have been part of why Str and Dex lost their ability to influence mitigation.