You don't need to be a paragon of knowledge to help in the novice network

I want to address a misconception I've seen in many threads, and gonna use this post as example, but this is something I've seen in far too many threads both here and Reddit.

NOTE: This is about the novice network, not the mentor status or dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

I had already met the requirements to be a Mentor since I started in 2013 and had each role leveled. While I have PLD, DRK, NIN, BRD, WHM, and DRG at Lv60, I'm not a "Mentor", since I still am not 100% fluent and knowledgeable of my jobs. I mean, NIN is main at iLv223, but there are NINs with lesser iLvs who perform better than me. My DRK/PLD is iLv215. While I can tank effectively, there's that lower iLv tank that can out-dps my tanks while both of us are MT at different times.

That said, I'll never attempt to teach someone how to play a job, or what rotations to use, because the little things I'm good/excel at:

NIN: Keeping dots up, Shade Walker on MT constantly, Goading without being told, getting that Trick Attack in, doing mechanics...
BRD: Keeping dots up, required songs are up, stopping WAR's Pacification...
WHM: Rarely would someone die. I can keep heals going even with low MP...

...there's other people who do far better. Like, being good at healing kinda means nothing to many players if I'm not dps'ing as WHM. My utilities on NIN and BRD are on point, but there's the damage-out complaints.

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The questions in the NN boil down to "how do I get a mount?" "how do I unlock dragoon?" "where do I get retainers?", the majority of questions come from players under level 30, they wont ask you how to beat titan ex or how to do an end-game rotation, they only ask for very basic stuff that anyone should be able to reply, the problem is there are times that mentors are busy and even simple questions like these end up overlooked, don't be afraid of joining and helping in the network.

This is what the NN looks like in my server

http://i.imgur.com/K58gUEt.png

we went from many mentors and a few sprouts to being heavily outnumbered.

So really, if you feel like helping, you don't need to be a keeper of knowledge, just be able to answer stuff a fresh player would ask, in a respectful way.

Note, I'm excluding Balmung and Gilgamesh from this discussion, because they hardly ever get actual new players compared to other servers since they are pretty much perma locked, so their NN is basically another chatting linkshell.

Cerberus is also heavily outnumbered but with Mentors, not Novices. The last time I was in there, it was also a chat linkshell, with an occasional question (which was then bombarded with answers due to the amount of Mentors in there).

My comment was only part of a response I made. Wasn't necessary to repeat myself across different threads. But yeah, we would answer basic questions that the sprouts had, but then, certain questions and answers would spark fights.

In one particular scenario, a sprout asked if anyone was a ROG main and could help him with something. It was quiet for about 20 seconds, then I responded with, "I'm NIN main, having started ROG since it released. What's up?". Someone said something within the lines of "Don't listen to Jim; he suck and can't dps like a nin should."

Anyway, the sprout's question was: "since rog is melee can i use str?" I told him "STR does nothing for you as ROG; go DEX for main attribute. If you also check the Dexterity description in the Attributes screen, it will mention ROG and NIN." Of course, I was greeted with something like, "you must not read much because you cant even parse 1300 on Sephirot."

So, yeah, that's that...lol

My problem was that the sprout asked about ROG and STR, but folks kept bringing up NIN and damage.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

My problem was that the sprout asked about ROG and STR, but folks kept bringing up NIN and damage.

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Then report the mentors that were doing that. That qualifies as harassment

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Originally Posted by Zari

Then report the mentors that were doing that. That qualifies as harassment

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Agreed, even if you arent a master ninja, or a master crafter or a master anything, if you can help in any way that improves the novice, even if it its only minimal, then you are fully welcome to join the mentor network, imo.doesnt matter what others say as long as you arent purposfully giving out bad advice.

And here I thought its main purpose was to be a social e-peen boost platform with chit-chat about various BS and the occasional ERP?

Jim that's really what most of the questions boil down to. The rest az Zari mentions report for harassment.

And to the OP nothing wrong with less mentors vs mentees. That's kinda the idea. You don't need to outnumber the mentees. Also consider that some of the mentees might be RMT bots and such.

I personally liked the idea of the Mentor system as well as the Novice Network, but due to a few reasons i decided to remove the mentor status from myself.

• It took me days before i managed to secure a spot in the Novice Network as a mentor, because i play during peak hours.
• There was an oversaturation of Mentors into the chat (we had 100 Mentors and 14 New Adventurers)
• Whenever there was a question in the Novice chat, there were 3 or more mentors replying to that particular question. They either differed slightly from each other and some of them were polar opposites of each other. This generated more confusion rather than actually helping the new adventurer.
• There were times where people would ask for advice for duties, which were being replied with “Just ignore those”, instead of explaining them.
• More and more bots were being invited to the Novice Network

It was mostly the last 2 reasons that made me remove the Mentor status. I simply did not want to be a part of a system where people were inviting bots into or teaching New Adventurers that “ignoring mechanics” is the proper solution for clearing duties.

I can do more good during the duties themselves. I can guide them through the content and pointer tips the content as we go. Like others, i’ve seen Mentors on a regular basis who remain silent during the entire duty and try to run everything as if they are paired with a veteran party, even when players say that they are new to the dungeon.

It’s like you said, you don’t have to have an extensive knowledge of each job or all of the mechanics of a duty, as long as you can teach them the basics in a respectable manner or at least point them in the right direction.

Tell jokes while explaining or point out the funny (hidden) mechanics like the “Misery” debuff the Gremlins slap on you. And most of all; Teach them how to have fun while doing it!

That is what being a mentor is all about in the end.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

The questions in the NN boil down to "how do I get a mount?" "how do I unlock dragoon?" "where do I get retainers?", the majority of questions come from players under level 30, they wont ask you how to beat titan ex or how to do an end-game rotation, they only ask for very basic stuff that anyone should be able to reply, the problem is there are times that mentors are busy and even simple questions like these end up overlooked, don't be afraid of joining and helping in the network.

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My server seems to be 100 sprouts under 30 and 10 or so active mentors trying to answer those questions. (adds "Why is there a level 50 rabbit in a level 10 zone" and "How do I sell on the MP" to that list). A great bunch of friendly, helpful mentors who have made the game a lot of fun, and a number of sprouts who help when there is no answer.

I will be quite sad to lose that channel when my 140 hours of gameplay comes about.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

My server seems to be 100 sprouts under 30 and 10 or so active mentors trying to answer those questions. (adds "Why is there a level 50 rabbit in a level 10 zone" and "How do I sell on the MP" to that list). A great bunch of friendly, helpful mentors who have made the game a lot of fun, and a number of sprouts who help when there is no answer.

I will be quite sad to lose that channel when my 140 hours of gameplay comes about.

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uhm , if u like or find some mentor helpfull and nice.... feel free to ask for a friend invite...so u can keep in touch with him/her :)

humble request from someone who just came back to the game after a 3 year absence, and has found herself a complete noob, thus starting a new character:

cool it with the bot-hunting, kick-happy behavior in novice chat. i was kicked from the novice chat by a mentor while simply minding my own business and questing, with "reason:RMT". This assumption was based on nothing but my job (archer) and lack of other jobs (I JUST STARTED! thats why im in novice chat...).

It sucks to get locked out, publicly accused of being a bot by some random overzealous kicker, and its a pain to get back into the chat. Please at least send people a tell or something.

It's always interesting reading this kind of thread from the perspective of playing on a Japanese server. Before the last patch I couldn't get into the channel often and it was generally 100 AFK mentors versus 1 newbie (who probably didn't need any help anyway). So it was pointless.

Nowadays it's more balanced; sometimes there are more sprouts, sometimes there are more mentors. Even when sprouts do or say something foolish they're given gentle advice and most people use it to say 'hi' and make the game community feel closer when they're out doing quests and finding their way around. My server is extremely low pop so having the sense that other people are playing is really helpful, especially other sprouts who you might struggle to find at first. Nobody has asked any questions that are even remotely difficult while I've been logged in; it's just standard stuff that anyone with a bit of patience and experience can answer while they stand around waiting for their group.

When I accepted the mentor status the pop-up messages were quite firm about how mentors should be prepared to act like representatives. It's disheartening to read that people are using the channel as a way to show off and put other players down when they try to help on other servers, and I think you should definitely report them for it; bullies ought to have their access to the channel permanently removed if they can't treat other players with proper respect. From my experience I don't think this issue even exists on non-English-speaking servers so I hope that S-E is taking the problem seriously for those affected.

Since it's so easy for someone who regularly roulettes to grind the 1,000 dungeon requirement, perhaps make it so people who receive a certain number of reports after abusing their powers will have their mentorship stripped by a GM until they earn it in another way (e.g. at the moment, if they earned it through dungeons they'd have to re-earn it through the gathering/crafting qualifications to be given a second chance)? It may be harsh, but acting like a jerk in the novice channel damages the game's reputation and disrupts things for others. I heard they were hoping to add alternate ways to qualify for mentorship in future so if the trolls want to work their butts off only to be stripped of their privileges each time they bully others, perhaps they'll eventually start being more considerate. And if they don't learn, they can't be a mentor any more. Their call.

It's been many weeks since I last managed to get into the NN, but I do have to say that certain "simple" questions by newbies have importance all throughout the game and therefore can lead to heated discussions.
There was an instance where a new CNJ complained about being bored only casting Cure over and over. I basically told him "you only need to cure enough to keep everyone alive and can spend the rest of the time in cleric stance dpsing like everyone else".
Unsurprisingly, that led to a big fight about the whole "healers should/shouldn't dps"-issue and so on.
Personally, I don't consider people good healers who just twiddle their thumbs for up to 20 seconds until they finally have to throw a heal to the tank again. I think them talking newbies into a "don't let those hardcore a**holes push you into doing something that isn't your role"-mindset is dangerous and further dumbs down the general populace of the game unnecessarily. (they probably think the same about me though :D)

And then we have the people who are even worse, having all classes leveled but no idea about ANYTHING. Recommending STR to tanks, recommending STR to NINs, or telling new healers to only go for MND (although this one is debatable and not flat-out wrong; but the chance to run out of MP as a fledgling healer is basically non-existent).

Of course you don't need to play every class perfectly in endgame to be a good mentor - but if you do, chances are you know what you are talking about in comparison to the dude who rarely manages 400 dps on Sephi EX in 220+ gear, because he only spams True Thrust over and over :rolleyes:

I don't want to speak for all servers since I'm sure some servers might have attitude problem from some mentors, or even a clique trying to control the network, but I felt appropriate to point out that, if you had a bad experience in the network before the last patch, I really encourage you to give it another try, after they made the network manual invite for mentors it weeded out a lot of bad mentors who just wanted the crown, I'm not saying you wont encounter bad apples, but they're a much less common occurrence now.