Kassatsu + Doton

Heya, I think this is probably an old question, but I'm way too lazy to search the forum.

(Feel free to point me in the direction of something about this if you are aware!)

Short of it is: does Kassatsu effect the ticks of Doton, or is it just RNG inconsistency showing up in my ... calculations....
Thanks in advance!

You don't use Kassatsu and Doton. It a waste of dps, instead you use Doton first then Kassatsu and Raiton. This way you can maximize the effect of Kassatsu.

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Originally Posted by Sevyrr

Heya, I think this is probably an old question, but I'm way too lazy to search the forum.

(Feel free to point me in the direction of something about this if you are aware!)

Short of it is: does Kassatsu effect the ticks of Doton, or is it just RNG inconsistency showing up in my ... calculations....
Thanks in advance!

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Yes. If you use Kass in Doton then all the dot ticks will be critical.

Huh guess I'm a bad NIN then XD since I always Doton, Kassatsu, and Raiton XD back to the basic for me xD

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Originally Posted by Ebonwings

Huh guess I'm a bad NIN then XD since I always Doton, Kassatsu, and Raiton XD back to the basic for me xD

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It is more you want to kassatsu into doton in aoe pulls

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Originally Posted by Ebonwings

You don't use Kassatsu and Doton. It a waste of dps, instead you use Doton first then Kassatsu and Raiton. This way you can maximize the effect of Kassatsu.

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Kassatsu Doton combined with IR/B4B boosted Death Blossoms in large AoE pulls will provide more DPS then a single Kassatsu Raiton will in my experience.

Thanks guys, guess I'll get some adjustments on my NIN again XD been playing a lot of DRG lately need to rework my NIN rotation more then. :)

I was under the impression that only the first tick was a guaranteed crit. MCH works the same way with reassemble and spread shot/grenado shot.

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Originally Posted by Naelle

I was under the impression that only the first tick was a guaranteed crit. MCH works the same way with reassemble and spread shot/grenado shot.

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Doton is a persistent ground effect with multiple damage ticks, while Spread Shot and Grenado are simply AoE attacks. They aren't really comparable. It has been tested and shown that all ticks of Doton will Crit ifor it is cast under the effect of Kassatsu.

For effective AoE, it's best to use Katon > Kassatsu > Doton, as long as the mobs will remain in the area of effect for its entire duration.

Kassatsu will cause all Doton ticks to crit. This can still be worth less than a Katon, however if the mobs, on average, won't be in the area of effect for at least two-thirds duration (due to death or movement).

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Originally Posted by Ebonwings

You don't use Kassatsu and Doton. It a waste of dps, instead you use Doton first then Kassatsu and Raiton. This way you can maximize the effect of Kassatsu.

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This worries me. There's no situation ever where you'll want to Doton and Raiton in any order, separated by a Kassatsu. Ever.

If there's a priority target in an aoe pull, you would be dropping Shadow Fang / Mutilate on it and single-target stuff to kill it. Ninjutsus would still be Katon/Doton.
If there's only one enemy, you should never be dropping Doton. Ever. Never ever ever. Under any circumstance. Ever.
If most enemies are about to die, leaving just one to Raiton after, you would Katon > Raiton, not Doton > Raiton.

I can't think of any other almost-right situation where Doton and Raiton would be mixed like this.

But yeah, as was said, every tick of Doton is automatically a crit if you Kassatsu into it.

Well, it's pretty funny, I have almost always used Katon over Doton for the simple fact that for some reason most tanks like to move mobs out of the circle. However, I got bi*ched at in a group earlier because I didn't use Doton, so I laid it down and what did the tank do? He moved it out of the circle. So I just continued doing what I do. I can't wait to finally be caught up with my FC so I can just join them lol. I almost started crap and was about to tell that tank to hold aggro, because often he would lose it to me. I'm all about using doton, but tanks just refuse to keep the mobs still when i do. So I strictly go to Katon.

Thanks for the tips :) I'll rearrange those ninjutsu order when I'll go NIN next time.

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Originally Posted by Dubah

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Maybe this will help explain it;

Some of it is dodging aoe, but depending on the mobs in question, they'll often "jostle for space" with each other, particularly if one has a large hit box compared to the others. It's very frustrating at times, because you'll position a mob just so and then it'll shift to make room for another mob and suddenly someone eats am aoe that they shouldn't have.

Thanks for these replies! I knew I was right, and remember reading about it before but some jack ass in my fc started spouting BS at me when I was trying to help someone learn.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

It has been tested and shown that all ticks of Doton will Crit ifor it is cast under the effect of Kassatsu

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Can you point me to a source of this? If you know of one.
I remember reading about it on a xenosys guide, but I don't think they included any testing evidence.

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Originally Posted by Sevyrr

Can you point me to a source of this? If you know of one.
I remember reading about it on a xenosys guide, but I don't think they included any testing evidence.

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Just test on a Dummy. Do a normal Doton and then do one with Kass, it will be significantly higher damage for all the ticks.

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Originally Posted by Ebonwings

You don't use Kassatsu and Doton. It a waste of dps, instead you use Doton first then Kassatsu and Raiton. This way you can maximize the effect of Kassatsu.

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What in the everliving...this is terrible advice. Any situation you'd use raiton = any situation you would absolutely not use doton.

1 mob = raiton, suiton as applicable

2 mobs+ = katon, doton (only when mobs will last 21 seconds on average. ie: if there's 5 mobs, but only 1 is going to last more than 10 seconds, katon)

And in situations where doton will run its full course, the best use is regular katon followed by kassatsu doton. If you're not sure they'll all last 21 seconds regular doton then kassatsu katon is an option.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Just test on a Dummy. Do a normal Doton and then do one with Kass, it will be significantly higher damage for all the ticks.

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and close, but you'd need to test on 2+ dummies, which was one of the first things I did back then to be sure because there's a similar move on drg that only forces crit on its first target.

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Originally Posted by Sevyrr

Thanks for these replies! I knew I was right, and remember reading about it before but some jack ass in my fc started spouting BS at me when I was trying to help someone learn.


Can you point me to a source of this? If you know of one.
I remember reading about it on a xenosys guide, but I don't think they included any testing evidence.

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There's no "source" really, since it doesn't take extensive research. As others have stated, it's simple enough to just test on dummies and see the results.

Yeah, fair with the dummy testing.
Off to Summerford Farms to get me some data then!
(not looking forward to shoving this in the elitist pricks face at all.)