question about "Army's Paeon"

lots of tank runs out of tp really fast when they are tanking, does BRD needs to use "Army's Paeon"? this buff reduces BRD dmg by 20%.

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Originally Posted by Jilliebeans

lots of tank runs out of tp really fast when they are tanking, does BRD needs to use "Army's Paeon"? this buff reduces BRD dmg by 20%.

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No. The only time you honestly need to use it is if the fight lasts for longer than 4 minutes without a break. Tanks are the last people you should be giving TP to.

Usually an AST or NIN can take care of the tank don't gimp your damage just to give the tank tp, but if there is no NIN or AST chances are if the tank is running out of tp others will be to especially MNKs, that's when you'll want to paeon.

Melee heavy groups it can be nice (Invigorate not being enough for sustained AoE) And it only reduces damage by 15% from the descriptions.

The term I always head was "Dps ia a group effort, not any one person's" it's crappy to lose that damage (Foes by all means if you have a blm/smn) but when there's nothing except You, a War (Probably not a Drk/Pld, they don't really AoE with TP anyhow) and a Drg/Mnk/Nin, whatever the case, all starved for TP and mobs all at like 80% hp, it will keep damage rolling, if at a small cost to you personal dps.

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Originally Posted by EnaChleo

Melee heavy groups it can be nice (Invigorate not being enough for sustained AoE) And it only reduces damage by 15% from the descriptions.

The term I always head was "Dps ia a group effort, not any one person's" it's crappy to lose that damage (Foes by all means if you have a blm/smn) but when there's nothing except You, a War (Probably not a Drk/Pld, they don't really AoE with TP anyhow) and a Drg/Mnk/Nin, whatever the case, all starved for TP and mobs all at like 80% hp, it will keep damage rolling, if at a small cost to you personal dps.

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It should never get to that point though. If AoE is properly managed (and dps is good), you sohuldn't run out of TP for AoE before the pack dies. There's bigger underlying problems if the melee dps and tank are running out of TP and the mobs are still at 80%, and you'd probably tank a larger dps loss by making a BRD (or especially MCH if we want to look at promotion) using tp regen.

If the tank is severely out-dpsing everyone else though, making sure he has enough TP is a good idea :p

If the tank is severely out-dpsing everyone else, the BRD would be included in that, so they should obviously be singing!

That's actually really rare, though. My Paladin at i223 can only pull ~1050 sustained on bosses without a NIN in the party, and it's very very rare these days (thankfully) to encounter a DPS doing less than that. It DOES happen, but it's just not nearly as frequent now as it used to be.

In raids (the only time TP will be a concern) like Midas/Gordias, it's even LESS likely that the tank is top dps, and also more likely there'll be a NIN or AST to help out.

Though I will say it's really disheartening to have to actually call for a Goad in Midas runs when I'm at like 200-300 TP and out-dpsing the NIN with 230 daggers. It just makes me wonder what the NIN is doing...


In short - you should rarely, if ever, be worrying about the tank's TP as a Bard.

Army's Paeon's primary use is to boost the parties TP after heavy AE usage which drained out reserves. This is usually only done when you have two or more heavy TP users. Hense this can get used semi-regulary while AE pulling trash, but shouldn't be used in almost any bossfights.

As a Bard i very seldom find myself (personally) using Army's Peaon. As everyone has stated if you have a NIN or AST in the party they usually can cover any TP Regen needs.

Tho I happened to be in a party one time when a tank called for Goad and the NIN wasn't paying attention...decided to throw on Army's Peaon on because of that. Depends on who needs it and the situation. Having damage reduced does hamper DPS but if it calls for it then me personally ill take reduced damage if it means keeping the tank going. :)

I only ever really use this if specifically asked or in downtime where it would be beneficial. I definitely don't suggest using it during combat.

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Originally Posted by jssanderson747

I only ever really use this if specifically asked or in downtime where it would be beneficial. I definitely don't suggest using it during combat.

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I'm curious. If you start singing Paeon (or Ballad) before bird form in A5/A5S, does the effect persist and allow you to sing as a bird and keep the TP (or MP) flowing?

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Originally Posted by JackFross

I'm curious. If you start singing Paeon (or Ballad) before bird form in A5/A5S, does the effect persist and allow you to sing as a bird and keep the TP (or MP) flowing?

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Yep. Foe works too if you wanted to waste mp :P

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Originally Posted by JackFross

I'm curious. If you start singing Paeon (or Ballad) before bird form in A5/A5S, does the effect persist and allow you to sing as a bird and keep the TP (or MP) flowing?

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I often seng ballad for healers on second boost. The only thing I've noticed that disapears in bird form is flaming arrow - and that's really annoying...

As a main Bard, it's always situational for me, I can have many runs in a row where I only ever sing Foes and then have a party that only wants to AOE and end up only using Army's Paeon for the whole run, I can't remember the last time I needed to use Ballard.

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Originally Posted by JackFross

I'm curious. If you start singing Paeon (or Ballad) before bird form in A5/A5S, does the effect persist and allow you to sing as a bird and keep the TP (or MP) flowing?

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But why would you do that? It's about 30s downtime, that's enough to fill up 600 tp. There is no heavy AoE part before anyway and fight only goes 2-3(?) until that point. At the 2nd occasion it might be useful, dk.

Play Ballad instead, if you have a SMN.. In that case i can use ruin3 until OOM. \o/

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

But why would you do that? It's about 30s downtime, that's enough to fill up 600 tp. There is no heavy AoE part before anyway and fight only goes 2-3(?) until that point. At the 2nd occasion it might be useful, dk.

Play Ballad instead, if you have a SMN.. In that case i can use ruin3 until OOM. \o/

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I don't think anyone was assuming paeon would be preferable. I don't think anyone is capable of running out of tp in that fight to begin with

Best use of Paeon is big pulls of mobs when you have a WAR, DRG, MNK, NIN, or other BRD spamming the hell out of AoE. People will argue that it's less effective for the dps to do that but some times it makes the fight a bit easier overall. Hitting 5-10 mobs for smaller damage can be better than 1 big hit on a single target. It's all about overall damage to the group.
If you taking a hit to your dps lets the entire rest of the group pound out more damage it evens out (or increases) and makes things smoother.

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Originally Posted by Aethon

Best use of Paeon is big pulls of mobs when you have a WAR, DRG, MNK, NIN, or other BRD spamming the hell out of AoE. People will argue that it's less effective for the dps to do that but some times it makes the fight a bit easier overall. Hitting 5-10 mobs for smaller damage can be better than 1 big hit on a single target. It's all about overall damage to the group.
If you taking a hit to your dps lets the entire rest of the group pound out more damage it evens out (or increases) and makes things smoother.

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If you're running out of TP aoeing the mobs before they die, then you have no business doing AoE pulls in the first place. You're also severely over estimating how much TP you gain from the song if you think itll help you continue to AoE (it doesn't).

I play my BRD with support in mind, which is a bad thing, which is also why I DON'T use her often unless I need a break from NIN and tanking. That said, though, I still wouldn't Paeon for just the tank. I need more than one person in the group to be low on TP, especially after they used Invigorate or died.