Question regarding removing bots from Novice Network

Hey!

I keep removing bots/RMT from Novice Network, luckily I am not alone with it, but there is one thing that I have not read an official statement about.

My question is, after removing bots, do I need to issue a ticket and report the kicked bots or is kicking them enough as it will be investigated anyway? When I have a kicking spree, I collect all the names and report them all in one ticket in-game.

Also, I was wondering if an activity history, similar to FCs, would be implemented for the network. Some people keep inviting these bots to the network and we have no means to find out who.

Thanks in advance!

I know all kicks from the NN are automatically reported and investigated, but I don't know if they do more than look at just NN chat history to judge whether the kick was warranted. And unless they've done RMT advertising in the NN channel, their bot status probably wouldn't show up with a "routine" investigation. Sure, you'd think that their names would be an obvious hint (few people would name their character Asfdaf Daf or similar roll-face-over-keyboard names), but I'm not sure how careful they have to be with that, since some names that would be "obvious" bot names might actually have a meaning in another language.

Yeah that is why I am hoping for an official answer, could clear things up.

Does this mean that there are purposeful Mentor bots inviting spam bots to the network? That's super shady.

Since they never say anything, ever, I just ignore them. If you kick them you just spam the chat making it less hospitable to everyone else in there and the kicked users will just come back in 30 minutes anyway (and someone would probably end up reporting you for spamming the chat every 30 minutes if you continued to kick them).

I know it's not just you doing this, but you can't really just kick based on name alone either. Although in most cases they will probably be bots, occasionally I've seen users in the game who, for whatever reason, have "bot like" names, but they're clearly not a bot. So by kicking purely based on their name you risk kicking an actual person and you might face whatever consequences come with that.

I don't know about your server, but on mine there's still tons of room for new adventurers, so ignoring them will cause less issues than trying to actually do something. I know that sounds terrible to ignore it, but our trying to fix it (kick spam and potentially against wrong people) just makes it worse. Ultimately SE will need to do something if they start taking up all the spaces.

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Originally Posted by 16bitBounty

Does this mean that there are purposeful Mentor bots inviting spam bots to the network? That's super shady.

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Probably just other players inviting them (you don't need to actually be in the novice network to invite, just have mentor status), either because they're inviting everyone or actually think they might be a bot and it'd be funny to invite them.

Yeah, kicking them is just needless spam.

To report bots, this is a much better place: https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...=5382&la=1&p=0

As for how they get their in the first place, seems most likely that a troll "mentor" invited them just to sadistically enjoy the inevitable ensuing conversations of "they're automatically invited / no, they're not," quoting The Vault, and/or feeling powerful for kicking people for the sake of kicking people.

And yes, some really are trying to help with the kicks, but we've already thoroughly established at this point that this is not how you report them and that it's just spam for everyone.

Well I know they are not actually spamming the chat but they still should not be there. If each kick is investigated, at least GMs can ban these accounts or some actions can be taken. It is actually quite easy to differentiate a player from a bot, if you are a Mentor, chances are you can tell a bot from a Roe name :P Also, on Cerberus EU, many bots are in FCs name, FCs such as HjjkLa <fT> (random example) so that makes our job of identifying them even easier.
Basically, you are looking for people in such FCs, with names like Qqjkfkak Lfrttakjva, always at Twin Adders GC, always as a BLM/BRD, in dungeon or in group.
Also, not letting such bots take up half the Novice Network is a good idea in my opinion.

And yes, people inviting others randomly without asking is not only a problem because of bots but also because it is rude to just force invite people into a channel without even as much as a "hey", those people often don't even know where they are, what they joined.

I've seen mentors kicked from the novice network because their bot-kicking is spamming the channel (and, on occasion, a genuine sprout has admitted to being intimidated by all the kicking going on), so be careful if you plan on kicking bots. Also, as has been stated, they come back in 30 min whether they want to or not - and honestly, I doubt the bots care; they don't advertise or speak at all. That they're in the channel at all is less likely to be a RMT ploy, and far more likely the actions of a trolling Mentor (as has already beens stated in this thread).

While it's true that kicking them may well bring them to the attention of the RMT task force, I'd wager that the RMT task force has bigger fish to fry. They likely already know about them, but ignore them because new level 1 bots can be deployed FAR faster than the task force can ban them. They tend to wait until the RMT have leveled them a while, both so that the bots' time is wasted, and also so they can track where the bots are sending the gil they earned along the way.

Channel clutter isn't a big deal, since the bots never speak, and the channel has room for over four hundred sprouts. At the very worst, I've never seen the number of bots in channel exceed sixty. Perhaps it's worse on some servers, and there really ARE 400+ bots in channel at once - but I doubt it.

tl;dr: Kicking bots from Novice chat is pointless; it doesn't harm the bots, it doesn't tell the task force anything they don't already know, and it may frighten the genuine newbies.

Hello Subic,
I'm also from Cerberus and as i stated in another topic (and i also announced that in the novice network), i asked GMs to know if it was our duty or not to kick bots and fill a report. Here is the answer I got :
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3643460

For the moment it's the only "official" info i saw so far about that topic.

Also don't just judge by the names of the bots to kick them. With some mentors we also check the jobs, the instance, the FC, the GC and we also ask the bot to answer a question before proceeding to kick.
bots are usually :
-Bard main class, pugilist 15 and arcanist 4
-Black Mage main class, archer 15 and arcanist 4
-they all go together in the same duty (the pattern is usually : the Navel (normal) before reaching level 30. At level 30 they all gather below the floor on the Sand Shelter in Horizon, then from 50 to 60 they do Amdapor Keep normal and Wanderer Palace and all gather in Uldah).
-So far, they are all from Twin Adder GC
-they may be part of a fake fc (usually with names like : GuhdUGHUHIsg <<tHr>>) fullfilled with bots
-they are all "E" language except some exceptions i suspect to be the "bot masters" who are "J" or "D"
Also the golden rule is : Don't kick if you have any doubts. Since those bots are not talking, rather let one survive in the network instead of kicking an innocent. if you have any doubts, just let them be. Usually to check if they are human or bots i /tell them with that question "Just a quick message to check if you are a player or a Real Money Trader robot : how much does 2+2=?"
And then i fill a big report with all the suspect names.


@LineageRazor : according to what the GM answered me in my request, i can't agree with you. They clearly advice us to kick the bots to keep the network clean. When you accept the mentor Rank one of the rule is : keeping the network clear of any annoyance. Bots fall in that category.

I don't know what a GM told you or how you interpreted it, but my own conversation with a GM on the topic indicated there is zero rule that mentors must kick bots. We don't ever have to kick anyone. We have the right to in the case where they're harassing or spamming. Being silent is neither. They do rarely accidentally transmit "==" or "00000000000000000000000000" and then I kick them. Otherwise, I leave them be. Because yeah, any new player joining in the midst of all that kick spam just wants to be out of the crazy channel.

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Originally Posted by EveK

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About the spamming, when someone is annoyed by it we just explain how to disable the "show announces in the Novice Network" option. It's a little bit hidden in the chatbox parameters but that option does exist.

I put a link to a screen + translation of what the GM told me. They admit there is no "official" rule about bots in novice network but they advice us to kick them and report them just in case and on the principle of "keeping the network clean". One GM also made an announce in the novice network on Day One of the mentor system to advice us to do the same. But if you have been told something else, please, share it with us because at the moment i am just following the opinion i made about that one answer i got (since i haven't found out any other messages close to an official statement).

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Originally Posted by Mimoza

Since those bots are not talking, rather let one survive in the network instead of kicking an innocent. if you have any doubts, just let them be. Usually to check if they are human or bots i /tell them with that question "Just a quick message to check if you are a player or a Real Money Trader robot : how much does 2+2=?"

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Getting asked a question like that would likely be far more offensive to a legitimate player than getting kicked from the channel would.

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Originally Posted by Mimoza

When you accept the mentor Rank one of the rule is : keeping the network clear of any annoyance. Bots fall in that category.

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I think many people would argue, especially the new adventurers, that you're the one causing the annoyance by spamming the chat with kick messages every 30 minutes as well as intimidating possible real players by challenging them. What do you do if they don't answer (because no bot would?) I'm assuming you kick them? What if they were real and semi-AFK, busy with something else, not watching the chat or just don't speak your language?

As i stated before, if i have any doubt, even a small little doubt, i don't kick. Usually when i have a doubt i also try to go directly where the person is and /wave that person and start a conversation in case. When the guy is called "Gyudigfuy GIUGYiuyeru" and is in Amdapor Keep with thousand other person with the same name, usually there is no doubt so i just do the /tell thing in that case. I also try to ask questions in German, French or English to be sure the person understands me.

Usually before kicking i apologize for the incoming spam and we rarely have a problem anymore on Cerberus with such things. Some novices are even encouraging us to keep cleaning the network.