So I'm at a loss of how to play DRK in feast. I don't have the damage to interrupt/burst people as hard as WAR and I don't have the CC of big papa paladin (or even War for that matter) to control healers.
What in the blazes am I supposed to do or what am I doing wrong .__.
DRK help
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03-29-2016, 06:48 PMSephoraiDRK help
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03-29-2016, 06:57 PMKataTime
After today's "patch"... don't. IDK what to say, I expected changes..... but this is kinda like throwing someone under the bus and sending a hallmark card saying "Sorry bro".
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03-29-2016, 08:46 PMAlrog
I was waiting for a good upgrade of DRK... SE need to understand DrK need a better burst , he was useless , and 3.25 don't really change that :/
Sieghilde Schtauffen -
03-29-2016, 08:55 PMNalien
https://i.imgur.com/tK7C7zd.png
Can you hear that? That's me dying of laughter, I assume it can be heard the globe over...
Seriously? SERIOUSLY?! This kind of pathetic little change couldn't be in 3.22? I waited two weeks of effectively being worthless in PvP to... Still effectively be worthless in PvP?
OK, you're playing up Dark Knights DPS... I can see that, thanks, I guess... Unless you're going to make my DPS dwarf Warriors, I don't give a flying sh*t though, because not only does Warrior have better DPS, Warrior has utility. Warrior has an extra Stun. Warrior can knock a group back. Warrior has Holmgang. Warrior has much better self healing with Equilibrium, Second Wind, and Thrill of Battle. Warrior has Thrill of War to heal itself and party members... Dark Knight has none of these things, Carnal Chill is the only real utility Dark Knight has and that's better uses as a DPS tool in Feast; The effect and range are too weak to compare this to something like Testudo. Grit Souleater is only worthwhile in PvE because I'm not locked to i150 and I can rely on Blood Price for MP. PvP I'm hitting like a wet fish and Blood Price is worthless. Losing Blood Weapon in PvP is rarely worthwhile IMO. I'd maybe have justified Grit if I had Manadraw instead of Enliven. Abyssal Drain? Never going to hit enough people to heal enough to remotely justify the cost... I think 400 is the best it'll manage? You'll maybe hit two people with it, so that's a 800HP heal for something which is completely unsustainable without half a dozen PvE mobs hitting you with Blood Price up...
So much for getting back into Feast after this patch... Should I just toss down Salted Earth and leave? Can't believe I waited two weeks for this... The worst part is, I called it... "I bet they'll just make shitty Tar Pit stronger and leave it at that", might as well be all they did... -
03-30-2016, 06:03 AMHierro
How to play DRK:
1. Play WAR or PLD instead
Okay okay, in all seriousness.
1. Save plunge for when someone uses a bind or push back
2. Use DA SE in succession for when you're focusing a target down.
3. Only use low blow to interrupt a cast
4. Make use of your PvP skills
5. Lay down salted earth on enemy team's AoEs. People feel (unjustifiably) pressured, so they're more likely to get off them.
6. Keep grit off at all times, except for when you have a ton of medals, but that shouldn't be happening anyways.
As DRK, when you're going to focus a target down, always start with Heavy Swing, DA C&S with DP, in the middle of a delirium combo, then follow with DA SE. You could use tar pit and carnal chill for more burst, but you'd be playing all your cards at that point leaving you with nothing else for a good while. Don't bother with scourge since the name of the game is burst, and every GCD counts when you're trying to burst a target down before a healer undoes all your effort.
Keep in mind, despite all this you won't contribute as much as WAR or PLD. Assuming everything's equal and optimal, the team with DRK is more likely to lose. Still, if you have nothing else to work with, this is your best shot. Everything else comes down to player experience and skill. Learn enemy skills and know when you're wasting time on a target to switch to something else. Know when to apply pressure to another target to make the healer choose between targets. there are also more things to know, but they cannot be explained in words. PvP more often above all and always try to think critically of why you lost and how YOU contributed to that loss and how you can improve. -
03-30-2016, 07:52 AMSephorai
Thank you very much, as angry as everyone is o appreciate actual advice
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03-30-2016, 08:02 AMKaiche
https://youtu.be/wstJUdH2uRc In a Nutshell
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04-01-2016, 12:12 AMExcalipoor
I started out Feast as DRK.
It just did "ok."
I cpuld mini-burst with C&S, Plunge, DP combo, enough to set up kills or finish them. But DRK lacks serious dps inbetween.
As it is, the jobs JAs are only good for PvE, not PvP.
Its just subpar until SE makes changes.
I hope they give C&S 500 potency. That wpuld be at leasr "a bone." -
04-01-2016, 11:02 AMElfidan
You have a simple role. Don't waste your time chasing a healer you can't interrupt with any regularity. Instead toss their heals a stun here and there to stop big/crucial heals, and focus the main target. If they go below 50% pop full swing followed by all the burst you have. If they have a whm and the whm is good however afk. You will be slept or bound 95% of the match.
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04-01-2016, 11:28 AMkisada
made a post in another thread that i think is relevant here
DRK: DRK's recent changes really just shows a gigantic disparity in what the devs think goes in in arena play vs what actually happens and what is actually useful. I'll skip the breakdown of what strengths and roles PLD/WAR get to have, but the short of it is this:
- DRK doesn't have as good a burst as WAR, and burst is the absolute KING win condition in this mode.
- DRK has almost no way to protect their teammates from burst the way PLD does.
- DRK has very little CC.
- DRK has underwhelming defensive abilities that make it more susceptible if they are designated as the medal carrier.
- DRK as a result is just a weak melee DPS that contributes almost nothing to a fight, and it really has no defining role in PVP.
So in 3.25, the dev team basically just gave DRK some higher potencies on their abilities. But that did absolutely nothing to address the issues above. And really the buffs to DRK are symptomatic of a greater issue: Not everything in feast is about pure damage, though the devs seem to think so. You can't just look at aggregate data damage because there are so many different variables and dynamics in each fight that blanket solutions won't actually create balance the way you might want it to.
You know what WOULD help DRK? Things that have nothing to do with pure potency adjustments. Let certain DRK attacks have CC's attached to them. Maybe add a 5 second heavy effect added to plunge. Let syphon strike steal MP from the player you hit. Or let souleater steal a player's attributes (obviously with a cap on them). Let blood weapon steal TP. Something like that.
Or make DRK the tank that fights off CC a lot easier than PLD or WAR can. Change plunge to break out of bind or sleeps. Make it so dark mind can do the same thing, or prevent bind/sleep/heavy/stun the way fetter ward can.
IMO DRK can easily be designed to have a role completely unique compared to WAR and PLD which can make it both fun and viable for arena play. -
04-02-2016, 04:45 AMCidolfas86My thoughts exactly. Not to mention other staple abilities like DA + Abyssal Drain are woefully underpowered in PvP. Even if you hit multiple targets you'll rarely recover more than 800 HP because of Stoneskin and other shielding effects, and it can't be sustained anyway because of MP issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by kisada
These are all nice ideas, however I feel like it these fixes won't change much in the grand scheme of things. Allowing DRKs to shake off CC abilities from enemies won't stop the fact they can't 1. Shield allies, 2. CC opponents, or 3 provide a significant enough burst that it can't be outright ignored like lots of people do now.Quote:
Originally Posted by kisada
I feel like a better direction would be to allow DRK to become the group CC master tank, since neither tank does that on a large scale outside of Mythril Tempest, Glory Slash. That was sort of the modus operandi of DRKs when Seal rock was a thing to keep people from capping towers.
You could give Carnal Chill a Binding effect and maybe add an ability that has a group sleep effect. We've already got a group AoE Heavyso thats taken care of. Maybe also add a effect Heavy or cure received down effect to Dark Passenger or Abyssal Drain. If they're not going to bump the potency of abilities to bring it more in line with WAR then I think "CC/debuffer tank" would be the way to go.
Its either that or start bumping potencies of major DPS abilities. Either one I wouldn't mind. I just would like to participate in the feast and not feel like I've gone from burden to beast the moment I switch from DRK to WAR. -
04-03-2016, 10:59 AMkisada
I get your point and I think it's fair. Changing one job alone won't do a whole lot, but I think you have to start somewhere. As it is, the current metagame is designed completely around burst. Most jobs are pretty much iterations of each other: burst something something at x level of effectiveness, or handle burst at y level of effectiveness. It's pretty freaking boring and dumbed down.
But again, IMO you start somewhere. Make DRK the CC type tank in order to give it it's own unique role completely (CC that's strong enough to start messing with opposing burst) and start adjusting potency from there to make it viable. Then move on to the next job and start tweaking burst and abilities to also provide a greater diversity at each level. Well, at least that's my hope. IMO if they could make it happen, the game would benefit greatly from more of a rocks/papers/scissors type thing from every job having different roles revolving around different game dynamics, as opposed to just pure burst.
BTW since you mention debuffer tank: I think that'd actually be one other great way to boost DRK. Make DRK the tank that steals buffs from opponents while adding them to yourself. Let souleater still a single buff. Let tar pit do something similar since it's on a 120-150s CD anyway. Two easy ideas that match the tradition of DRK stealing/absorbing things while at the same time increasing viability and fun factor. -
04-05-2016, 04:24 AMIagainsti"Grab the Offensive buff so they can do more damage than a Chocobo Companion" xD I'm dying! Poor Drks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiche
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04-05-2016, 10:53 AMCidolfas86And thats what makes it even more infuriating to play as DRK. Not only can you not burst good enough, but you can barely handle the burst at times either. Soul Survivor and Abyssal Drain are not comparable at any measure to Equalibrium/Second Wind or Clemency.Quote:
Originally Posted by kisada
Your basically left with pure defensive cool downs and those need to be up in advance before you get focused/burst into oblivion. The problem however is that there simply isn't enough of them to survive a strong burst multiple times, and preplanning/playing the guessing game as to whether or not your "it" can be difficult. You could make the same argument against the other tanks, but it won't be anywhere near as strong as it is against DRK. I guess I've had times where DA + Dark Dance evaded a few jumps or buffed Full thrusts/Fell Cleaves, but thats nothing to write home about when it only happens a few times in a full blue moon.
And Living Dead is just a joke of a thing in 8v8 feast. It was merely "ok" in Seal Rock because you could lead entire groups away from objectives. In the feast not a lot of pug healers will even bother to cleanse me at the right time for maximum effectiveness or at all. I wind up using Purify or taking the L.
The burst is also so lackluster that you can't even interrupt healers with the casting changes unless you get a lucky crit hit Carve and Spit. Otherwise I've been outright ignored a lot of the time when I'm the first to any decent healer that's been marked.
And I'm all for that. My only worry is that if they do go down this path that the CC won't actually be worth it or be under powered. i.e. here is a sleep ability but its on a 350 sec timer and the recast will only go down to 300 seconds. It would wind up being really niche then.Quote:
Originally Posted by kisada
That again sounds like a fine idea. If not outright absorb then let Souleater have a dispel effective to start erasing buffs. Follow it up by giving Delirium Blade a Malaise effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by kisada
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04-06-2016, 01:18 AMkisada
I think you highlight the issues well. Also, funny that you mention about delirium providing an effect. I was just thinking that one way DRK could start changing its tune is for one of its combos to have a movespeed drain ability. For example, +10% for DRK and -10% for the target. I think it'd provide DRK not only a solid personal buff but also pave a way as an option of a more of an indirect counter to burst, by eating a player's MS (even though -10% is light).
Whether that idea in a vacuum by itself is good or not, though, isn't a big deal. But the grander idea that souleater/delirium, and even power slash might be able to have some absorption type abilities would go a LONG, LONG way to making the class a lot more viable by providing options that are either direct or indirect counters to overwhelming burst. A DRK with a delirium that drains movespeed, souleater that drains stats, and a power slash that steals single buffs would be an example of something they could do that can provide those counters. And if they start adding these types of mechanics in, the game mode itself will become more diverse, complex, and enjoyable overall.