Patch 3.2 - Too much skillspeed in monk's gear

In current patch 3.2 there is a lot of skillspeed in monk's gear, with little GCD monk is loosing TP very fast and, the class becomes almost unplayable. SE, you should change bonuses in 230 and 240 gear and make less SS in it. Please, watch this video (not my video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSXq...ature=youtu.be ,than check this set, which I've made as BIS http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/TCBA - to have necessary accuracy for Savage 8 and as less SS as possible. Even in this set we get 766 SS. Do you know what GCD will be with such amount of SS? 2.35sec. It is too much for monk and Purification will never save monk from being drying out on TP. Only Gaod of ninja and TP song from Mech or bard can solve the problem in a slight way. But with Selena's buff and (or) Astrologian buff monk will dry out in any way. Thank you

ayy thats why we got two tp restore skills lol

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Originally Posted by Jinzhu

As much as I dislike all this skill speed, you should just use purification to keep up your TP.

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Impossible to reach 3rd invig even with purification meaning that in any fight where the MNK has 100% uptime they will run out after around 4 1/2 minute. From what I understand based on how groups do the mechanics A7S is such a fight.

Dude let all of his TP drop then used invigorate lol that's a no no. You wanna pop it at half TP that way invigorate is almost back before you reach 0.

Or he purposely used it wrong for the sake of his "funny" video ehh.

It is not my video and I agree, that on this video Invigorate was used too late- must be used on 550-600 TP. But in any way the proper usage of Invigorate will not safe monk. As for me- with my 2.39 SS right now I cant damage dummy for 3 minutes, because my TP will dry out. Yes, I can use Purification, but this will not help- I will not pass DPS check without The Forbidden chakra

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Originally Posted by Frost_Tear

Dude let all of his TP drop then used invigorate lol that's a no no. You wanna pop it at half TP that way invigorate is almost back before you reach 0.

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Fact since forever. Thank you!

For the record re: that set -
9 Crit is NOT better than 12 Det. (Midan Gloves)
681 Acc is NOT enough for A8S.
The stat weight on the 240 fists does not equate to the 12 effective STR gained in Weapon Damage with the 245.

Doesn't have nearly as much Crit as your set gets, but meh? I don't care enough to look for a better set, but this one's already down to 675 sks. There's definitely a lot on MNK gear this patch - I hadn't even noticed how much - but I think the bigger issue is that they have quite literally zero crit/det pieces in their entire selection. Everything is either Acc OR Sks - very rarely do the two stats overlap. If you go min Sks, your Acc flies through the roof (900+) and if you go min Acc, your Sks flies through the roof (950+).

Ok, maybe my set is not ideal (yes, Ive made a mistake with the weapon). Your link on another set has little amount of crit, that is why SS in not too high, det is high. About accuracy cap- maybe Im wrong. But you have noticed serious problem- stats overlap. You will have or a lot of accuracy or a lot of SS. And it is NOT good
It is not possible to create a good balanced set with 2,43 or 2,41 GCD

Ever think the speed might help you keep GL in savage and extreme?

Extra Skill Speed isn't going to save you from 10-20s downtime for Boost.
Extra Skill Speed isn't going to save you from dashing around the field to hit orbs during Brawler.
Extra Skill Speed isn't going to save you from quarantines in A7S
Extra Skill Speed isn't going to save you from the spreading mechanics in the final phases of A8S when the boss isn't targetable.

Every other point in each of those fights is essentially a striking dummy. Skill Speed doesn't help you maintain GL3 while standing still punching a wall.

You can have even higher SS than that, because getting BiS will take some time (depending on who we are talking about)

You can easily get 800+ until you get certain pieces

Even if Purification can be used to save you, which I don't think it can on some fights, it still means you're losing out on DPS because of that.

I can't get even close to the DPS on the SSS dummies right now, cause I have 800+ SS, and have to use purification.

I don't understand why they can't just remove most of the SS until they fix it... We should have scaling TP regeneration (in one way or the other) with the SS.

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Originally Posted by Craiger

I don't understand why they can't just remove most of the SS until they fix it...

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I would disagree that SS needs to be fixed. There was some extensive math done on rotation changes to accommodate for high SS on this reddit post which was pretty interesting.

The summarized version of it was that with 600+ SS, you only have to apply DK every 3rd rotation (it falls off but only for the DK re-application, which ends up being a dps gain); around 850+ SS, you only have to apply DK AND TS every 3rd rotation (they don't fall off at all).

I did some parsing on these and they do increase damage output. With that said, it is a change most monks are probably not used to since it would no longer be flank > flank > flank > rear > rear > rear/flank and instead would require you to alternate between flank and rear more frequently.

I'd recommend to read it over and give it a shot before attempting the SSS dummy again (not sure which one you're referring to nor what your ilvl is).

Lol this reminds me of healers running out of MP cause they pop their regen skills at zero mp....50-65% is your magical number my friend trust me DRG TP is dropping like crazy to but I never really have a TP issue

The DPS loss from using a Purification in place of Forbidden Chakra is minimal. You're forgetting that you can still weave in Chakras more often between cooldowns of purification due to being able to execute more skills. Then you have the sum of the DPS gained from the extra attacks for each rotation used with Purification.

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Originally Posted by Aomine1992

Lol this reminds me of healers running out of MP cause they pop their regen skills at zero mp....50-65% is your magical number my friend trust me DRG TP is dropping like crazy to but I never really have a TP issue

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DRG TP isn't comparable with MNK since 3.0 with the addition of another skill at the end of the combo and the dot time of phlebotomize the biggest TP draining skill being increased the TP that DRG uses is a lot less total. A MNK goes through a bit more than 500TP/min including the tp regen. Invig being 400 TP/120 sec we are missing 600 TP regen to keep up and will run dry about 48 sec after the invig. The total amount of time it takes for a MNK to be completely out of TP when using invig at the perfect moment is: 120+100(invig at 600 and at 0)=220 seconds which is 3:40 minutes at a reasonable amount of SkS, with the current SkS bloat we will not make it to the 2nd invig and will be completely dry after about 160 seconds with 8 seconds where you can not do anything. This is pure theory with a set amount of tp per second, in reality the time is going to be shorter and time spent dry longer.

EDIT: Using my spreadsheet I use to compare rotations and adding TP calculations to it, @765 SkS the total amount of time until we run dry is 212 seconds with purification and invig but also using fracture, without fracture I would add another 10-20 seconds but the next invig isn't coming up until 280 seconds.

Very nice, that will be possible to use DK less often and it will rise DPS, but the fact is- this will not help to save TP, and when TP will dry out, DPS will drop and all this efficiency becomes useless.Dragoons have much slower GCD and their Invigorate restores 600 TP, so please, dont tell me, that dragoons can be dried out on TP

I know you're more likely to end up with a 240 Lore weapon over the 245 Midan weapon thanks to the Gobdip in A7S, but is it really worth it just to sacrifice 1 Point of Damage and 7 Strength in exchange for losing up to 96 Critical Hit, gaining 39 Skill Speed and 59 Determination?

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Originally Posted by Transfinite

I know you're more likely to end up with a 240 Lore weapon over the 245 Midan weapon thanks to the Gobdip in A7S, but is it really worth it just to sacrifice 1 Point of Damage and 7 Strength in exchange for losing up to 96 Critical Hit, gaining 39 Skill Speed and 59 Determination?

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Secondary Stats doesn't do as much as a lot of players think, and weapons have Weapon Damage too, which is super strong.

The 245 Midas wep gives around 12.3 more Weighted Strength over the 240 Lore wep.

So in other words, even a 5 ilvl increase can give pretty much

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Originally Posted by JackFross

Extra Skill Speed isn't going to save you from 10-20s downtime for Boost.
Extra Skill Speed isn't going to save you from dashing around the field to hit orbs during Brawler.
Extra Skill Speed isn't going to save you from quarantines in A7S
Extra Skill Speed isn't going to save you from the spreading mechanics in the final phases of A8S when the boss isn't targetable.

Every other point in each of those fights is essentially a striking dummy. Skill Speed doesn't help you maintain GL3 while standing still punching a wall.

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Even in moments you can save GL3 during some sort of down time. It isn't done by skill speed. It's done by timing your snap punch just before down time then, then form shifting back to demolish and hope a target comes back. You can't punch the air so skill speed doesn't save you.

I'm agreeing with you, just adding how much skill speed doesn't save your GL 3

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Originally Posted by Jekyll

I would disagree that SS needs to be fixed. There was some extensive math done on rotation changes to accommodate for high SS on this reddit post which was pretty interesting.

The summarized version of it was that with 600+ SS, you only have to apply DK every 3rd rotation (it falls off but only for the DK re-application, which ends up being a dps gain); around 850+ SS, you only have to apply DK AND TS every 3rd rotation (they don't fall off at all).

I did some parsing on these and they do increase damage output. With that said, it is a change most monks are probably not used to since it would no longer be flank > flank > flank > rear > rear > rear/flank and instead would require you to alternate between flank and rear more frequently.

I'd recommend to read it over and give it a shot before attempting the SSS dummy again (not sure which one you're referring to nor what your ilvl is).

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An interesting read from what I saw. I didn't have time to read through the whole thing, but I will read through the whole thing later. I did talk about this same thing back in 2.x, and said then that it would require well over 800 SS to do two BS/TS rotations between DK/TwS refreshes. Back then you just couldn't feasibly get enough SS to even break even so any of us toying around with it just shelved it indefinitely. I had completely forgot about my testing back then though, and have been trying to focus on keeping my SS in check. I'll have to try it out and see how it goes. I'm all for some experimenting especially if it can have some interesting positive results.

I've always been more of a fan of more midrange amount of SS over really high or really low as a personal preference though.

Not only is it an interesting read but the rotation is actually very nice. The major benefit is that the highest possible Crit bis set (1094) also has 850+ ss. So while many will try to dump as much SS as possible they are doing so while loosing upwards of 150+ Crit. Since crit is pretty much the be all end all, we pretty much have to come to terms with SS Mnk being the 3.2 meta. Luckily, there is only 1 Target dummy fight without breaks this tier (a7s).

I'm more interested in seeing if we can push the speed higher. With 925 SS + Selene buff, we cen reliably pull off a 6-GCD PB opener.

More Bootshine and no Fracture? Sign me the fuck up.

My calculations still indicate that you lose more damage from unbuffed autos than what is supposedly gained in potency on the three-combo rotation unless you have a Dragon Kicker. This hasn't changed from ARR, even if Forbidden Chakra almost... kind of... but not really ties up the score on a 3m test (under which circumstances, FC vs. Purification is an all-or-nothing proposition, which it isn't in other cases).

This would be difficult to demonstrate convincingly if only because the theoretical difference on said 3m tests is about 1% overall DPS loss. But for napkin purposes, think on the length of 9 GCDs, subtract 15 seconds, multiply by two and that's close to how long per rotation you're down one of your two 10% buffs. Not pretty.

I'm at 783 SS and I cannot get this new rotation to work in my favor. I lose DK for it's reapplication (unless IR is up) and the occasional oGCD ability, clip Demolish and drop Fracture completely. Regardless of whether I use TFC or Purification, I lose anywhere from 40-80DPS compared to 3.0 classic.

My baseline is 1784 DPS using 3.0 opener and TFC. Even though I'm gasping for TP by 0:40, the classic rotation still comes out on top.

If anyone with "middle" skill speed--greater than 620 but less than 850--is able to record their SSS, or even provide a transcript of attacks, I'd like to know whether I'm goofing the rotation or if it's not all it's cracked up to be.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

I'm at 783 SS and I cannot get this new rotation to work in my favor. I lose DK for it's reapplication (unless IR is up) and the occasional oGCD ability, clip Demolish and drop Fracture completely. Regardless of whether I use TFC or Purification, I lose anywhere from 40-80DPS compared to 3.0 classic.

My baseline is 1784 DPS using 3.0 opener and TFC. Even though I'm gasping for TP by 0:40, the classic rotation still comes out on top.

If anyone with "middle" skill speed--greater than 620 but less than 850--is able to record their SSS, or even provide a transcript of attacks, I'd like to know whether I'm goofing the rotation or if it's not all it's cracked up to be.

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Well, I don't know what the people that report an increase in DPS are doing, but I can't get that rotation to increase my DPS in any way.

At best I can get a similar result to my normal rotation, but I can't help to think that has a lot to do with being able to use Forbidden Chakra for those 3 min dummy fights. That first Forbidden Chakra with buffs/pot does a lot of oGCD damage for a 3 min fight. Not sure how it would work out in a normal fight scenario.

The whole thing is a bit latency-affected, but if my estimates about typical latency + time till buff are on point (and I'm not saying they are), one should actually be around 830 SS (without Selene) to get Twin Snakes down to 1 GCD dropped. Even then, it's still less potency/second to not use ToD (goad pls).

I am sub 800 SS as well, and can't get favorable results either.

It would be nice if SkS and SpS would also increase the regeneration of resources. Would be even better if they also decreased CD's, so that rotationally nothing changes, you just do said rotation faster. :)