That BRD support... Main?

So, being NIN main, I have been getting some compliments for my damage (on PS4, so I can't actually see my numbers). Mostly because I've made NIN a primary focus and worked hard to get it in order.

The other day, I was on BRD. I was noted for my low dps (around 1000 on Sephirot), but people like the way I actually play BRD; with support in mind. I know it's impossible to play it like that, but I guess knowing when to Foe, when to Ballad, when to Paeon, when to Warden, without the need to be asked for it.

I guess my question is, have any of you mained a job, put your everything into it, then just dropped it overnight for another job where you've got constant good feedback on?

Since a lot of DPS players get crap from their low numbers, I'm more in fear that if I go BRD, I'll be one of "those" DPS all over again. I mean, even as NIN, I had a few people TRYING to say I stunk because I couldn't out-damage that BLM and DRG (I think 1200+ without trying is far from being a crappy NIN). As BRD, I just don't want to hear it lol...

As BRD/MCH you expected to do good damage, perform mechanics and offer party support.
If you are having trouble just doing ok damage as NIN then maybe a support role isn't a good option.
But in the end play whatever you find fun.

I usually try to hold 1.3-1.4k with little Ballad/Paeon in a given ST phase, or about 1,150-1250 with Ballad/Paeon, especially if little of that time is actually spent casting either/swapping between them. If a Monk requests Goad, I check quickly to see if he got it, and if not, Paeon is soon up to make sure he has enough TP for add phase AoEs, etc., leaving myself enough mana for a full BV Ballad, etc., etc. I just wish more Warriors would use Berserk macros, because the buff easily gets hidden behind shields and HoTs, making it hard to notice and cleanse unless I see the animation itself.

All in all, both sides of Bard (being a high dps Bard and being a responsive support) are damn fun, though I probably hang a bit towards the support side.

I never had issue with being support (I seem to naturally gravitate toward it in any game). but I do have issue with arbitrarily dealing less damage BECAUSE I'm support. THEN taking a further hit to my damage dealing abilities when I'm rendering said support. I do love MCH/BRD for all their positives and negatives, but that's really become a matter of concern for me.

In the end though, you're still taking up the role of a dps class. No amount of support is going to offset low numbets, but you'd have to be playing astoundingly bad ( or misplaced/don't care) to drop that far; like sub 500 dps at 60

Well I main Bard .... I always try to make sure I support my party when I can (and ALSO do good damage, as good as I can as a bard obviously).

Honestly I hate bards who are all "gotta be top deeps" and then just ignore that they have support skills, like? Why? Go play MNK or something if you want to be top DPS and not support your party.

Anyway if you want to play Bard instead then do that. Practice will get your DPS numbers up, even while supporting the party.

If your party is great, you don't need to waste dps by singing mana/tp too much or even at all. If the party starts whining for you losing dps over support, then maybe they need to manage their resources better so you don't have to support them as much.

The best parts to sing are whenever there's down-time to the actual fight. That way you can actually support without losing any dps at all. Sometimes you have to be flexible though, as parties are bad more often than they are great, and sometimes you may have to sing at unoptimal times.

Tbh I wouldn't worry too much if I were you. If you like Bard gameplay, just pick it up. Get critisised for your dps? Practice your rotations and priorities in fight and you'll get better. Learning to filter pointless banter from real critique is key.

At the end of the day you can be great at both dps and support. Dancing on that thin line between damage and support is what makes playing a bard really enjoyable.

With NIN being such a high iLv, I tend to get a bit lazy on BRD outside of dungeons since her iLv's lower. I don't know why, but I do so well in dungeons, and have MORE fun when there's a caster DPS and a WAR in the party.

I'll meddle with BRD more to see if this is what I really want to do. There are a lot of NINs where I'm from, so it's usually hard to get into a group now.

Just because someone is lowish on TP or MP, doesn't mean you need to lower your dps by singing ballad or paeon. Part of being a good bard is knowing exactly when to sing. Gimping your damage without anybody wanting you to is not being a good bard. Healers may even find it insulting that you think they need ballad when they aren't asking for it.

Unless they're very low (> 10%), you shouldn't be singing. Unless they were just raised from dying or you can't dps because there's downtime going on. Healer MP spikes up and down because of their cooldowns to regen it. If you see it at 50%, it doesn't mean they're in danger of running out.

Also, the more MP you waste by singing ballad or paeon pointlessly is MP that could be used for foe.

as brd u arent asked to do MNK numbers not even close , brd is more frustrating in 4 man if there is no caster, but 4 man are so easy that no1 cares.

u need to do your dps and support with songs....and dispel if needed , but like Lunar said , u dont need to sing TP when only 1 player needs TP , u cant see his invigorate CD, wasting your time casting a song and lowering your dps , and when as soon as u finish casting .....the guy uses invigorate .... ¬¬ , same goes for healers , low on mana (start singing )and 5s later nearly full ... dont sing to "support" or feeling usefull , sing when needed.

foe is always good with a caster (or healer dpsing) no1 will say no to extra dmg... but when u lower your dmg for no reason...thats not good :P

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

In the end though, you're still taking up the role of a dps class. No amount of support is going to offset low numbets, but you'd have to be playing astoundingly bad ( or misplaced/don't care) to drop that far; like sub 500 dps at 60

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Oh you're absolutely right; I'm just a bit wound up about it lately as suddenly, my former static began pointing fingers of blame over low DPS as a reason why we weren't clearing Hummelfaust on the first night (lol, good as we are, not one of us were THAT good). Having gone back to the drawing board a bit, I realize I'm not only fine as I was, I'm pretty much doing what I should be doing damage wise with the current gearing I have. Sad to see my static (they're all FC too) start to slip into being all about numbers like that, but it's cool. They tried to replace me once. Let's see how well that works again.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Oh you're absolutely right; I'm just a bit wound up about it lately as suddenly, my former static began pointing fingers of blame over low DPS as a reason why we weren't clearing Hummelfaust on the first night (lol, good as we are, not one of us were THAT good). Having gone back to the drawing board a bit, I realize I'm not only fine as I was, I'm pretty much doing what I should be doing damage wise with the current gearing I have. Sad to see my static (they're all FC too) start to slip into being all about numbers like that, but it's cool. They tried to replace me once. Let's see how well that works again.

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You really shouldn't trail that far behind anyone else though. If you're like 300dps behind on a typical fight then something's wrong. Not to mention hummelfaust isn't your typical dps check. You can fail it for other reasons aside from not doing enough damage, such as not managing cooldowns or timing your burst properly (nor is it a proper way to gauge effective dps, because I don't use my burst on the first set of faust, and as a MCH that drops my dps by a lot)

I'm glad to hear that's what you do as well as far as saving the burst for Hummelfaust. Only further cements that I was on the right track. My only fault, if any, was lacking a 220 weapon (probably not really necessary, and I was "accidentally" left out of the rest of their Seph Ex farming for said weapons) and a few odd gear pieces/melds. Beyond that, I'm not particularly lacking in my abilities as a MCH, but tell that to people who don't know the job, yet suddenly are trying to tell you how to do it/do it better.

If anything I had to take it as the signs of a static taking a bad turn and bow out gracefully. If it wasn't enough before, then we wouldn't have cleared the things we did. A disappointment, but not a setback. And in the time since, I've only come to learn that I've in fact been doing it "right" all along.

More times than not, if you're failing a dps check, it's the melee that isn't doing enough. Melees should be well above range in numbers. The composition could also be to blame; not having a dragoon or ninja. Lots of groups that didn't run a dragoon had trouble with A1S's faust when the Alexander Savage just opened up.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

You really shouldn't trail that far behind anyone else though.

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Yeah, BRD/MCN shouldn't be far behind other DPS at all on Hummel. Other than SMN/MNK within 100 DPS should be spot on, unless your other DPS are low, then you could be @ or above their numbers.

Like if the top DPS in your group is 1400 DPS and you think, oh I'm @ 1200 DPS so that's pretty good, but then realize that MCH can put out 1650 DPS, then it's not really that great.

Besides, what MCH loses in the opener they gain on having two targets (Bishop + Double Dotting + however much AOE you can add given TP usage), and what really matters is bursting down Hummel which MCH is amazing at.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

The other day, I was on BRD. I was noted for my low dps (around 1000 on Sephirot)

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The only phase I ever play ballad in Sephirot ex is the add phase. There's a lot of downtime for healers and dps so resources aren't necessarily needed if everyone's using their basic cooldowns. I'll be honest though, as a bard, your numbers (especially in final phase) should be near the top due to the amount of uptime you have access to compared to every other job (mch excluded). If you're doing 1000 dps by the end of ex, I can only really assume you're wasting a ton of uptime and dps casting songs that are unnecessary.