A few questions about Warrior.

So, I recently got my Warrior to Lv. 50. After fumbling around dungeons like the biggest scrub, I found myself with some questions, and can't find anyone in game to answer them. SO, my first post on the forums after nearly 180 days of playing this game is about this of all things. xD

1. While leveling, when is the "best" time to use Thrill of Battle? I ask this because I typically just treat it as a, "Oh, got a good amount of mobs on me. I want moar HP!" kinda thing. I know it's a nice thing to use for tank busters in Extreme Primals or raids (not that I've done any as a tank yet), but what about dungeons?

2. I'll probably be stoned to death for this one, but... Should I really use Fracture while leveling? I think that, since I got it, up until I hit Lv. 50... I've used it... 4 times? And that wasn't even until Cutter's Cry... I used it so rarely that I even decided to take it off my hotbars entirely. If I should be using it, where do I apply it? During Berserk, just before it ends, after Storm's Eye?

3. This one is a bit more difficult; How should I rotate my defensive cooldowns depending on the number of mobs on me? Like if I have 4 mobs on me, I start with Vengeance then Bloodbath. When Vengeance wheres off, I go for ToB and when BB wheres off, I got for Foresight. I usually throw IB in when I can/if I don't need aggro generation on other mobs (a.k.a. I don't need SC), and Convalescence and Second Wind as needed. I know it's a case-by-case thing, but is there some kind of rotation for cooldowns in situations like these? Or do I just go full #YOLO and wing it? (Probably a God awful idea, but... it works... some times...)

Thank you in advance~ \o/

1 - Yes, Thrill of Battle is a light Cooldown and the first one I usually pop on dungeons, is best if you use Convalescence before to help your healer in filling your HP faster.

2- The only time I use fracture is as the last GCD in the Berserk combo after the third Fell Cleave (or Inner Beast) , other than that is a DPS loss, you need to use it every time you use berserk, so is important to have it at hand.

3- there´s no fixed rotation on cooldows, you use it as you need them and your knowledge of the instance, as a rule of thumb, safe Vengeance for heavy mitigation (or if you really need to get that third Fell Cleave in your opener), Inner beast is a moderate Cooldown, but you can use it every 15 seconds, (Vengeance + IB is super effective for heavy damage), other than that, read the tool tips and guides and use your CDs on a case basis.

My only advice is for you is to get Awareness as soon as you can (GLD lv 34), you will need it to use Raw intuition effectively (WAR 56), and keep enjoying the game :)

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Originally Posted by Ariase

1. While leveling, when is the "best" time to use Thrill of Battle? I ask this because I typically just treat it as a, "Oh, got a good amount of mobs on me. I want moar HP!" kinda thing. I know it's a nice thing to use for tank busters in Extreme Primals or raids (not that I've done any as a tank yet), but what about dungeons?

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Whenever you feel like it. It's got a low cooldown, so it's never a bad idea to pop it when you think you'll need the health. The best cooldown combo for multi-mob tanking though, is Bloodbath + vengeance. It turns you into an unkillable brickwall while it's up.

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2. I'll probably be stoned to death for this one, but... Should I really use Fracture while leveling? I think that, since I got it, up until I hit Lv. 50... I've used it... 4 times? And that wasn't even until Cutter's Cry... I used it so rarely that I even decided to take it off my hotbars entirely. If I should be using it, where do I apply it? During Berserk, just before it ends, after Storm's Eye?

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Personally, I just use it when I'm dps-ing in deliverance, or when I'm soloing. It's pretty useless while tanking since it uses up an entire global cooldown.

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3. This one is a bit more difficult; How should I rotate my defensive cooldowns depending on the number of mobs on me? Like if I have 4 mobs on me, I start with Vengeance then Bloodbath. When Vengeance wheres off, I go for ToB and when BB wheres off, I got for Foresight. I usually throw IB in when I can/if I don't need aggro generation on other mobs (a.k.a. I don't need SC), and Convalescence and Second Wind as needed. I know it's a case-by-case thing, but is there some kind of rotation for cooldowns in situations like these? Or do I just go full #YOLO and wing it? (Probably a God awful idea, but... it works... some times...)

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There's no set rotation, just use your own good judgement. It's always better to use cooldowns than it is to try to save them, especially since they have such a short timer and they build up wrath stacks. Just make sure you don't slack off on building your wrath stacks, since your best move for mitigation will always be a good inner beast. As you gear up, your incoming damage is going to get lower and lower, so the pressure to make sure you're always using "the right move" is going to diminish. From that point on, the real game isn't figuring out how to survive incoming damage, it's how to dish out the most dps possible.

But seriously, worrying about mitigation at 50 is pointless. Your best unlocks are waiting for you. Once you've got equilibrium to go along with your Berserk +inner beast + bloodbath self-healing, your survival rating is going to jump from a low seven to a high ten.

1) Thrill of battle is like an instant cast 20% stoneskin that a healer can replenish by overhealing you. I pair it with Convalescence whenever I can.

2) I try to squeeze in a fracture whenever my berserk is about to wear off. I also use it immediately after a Brutal swing (stun move) because it looks fancy.

3) I don't think there's really a set rotation. I've seen some tanks that pop ALL of their self buffs before they even cast tomohawk/shield lob but I think that's a waste. I like to use Bloodbath and Berzerk together though since they have the same cooldown.

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Originally Posted by Ariase

1. While leveling, when is the "best" time to use Thrill of Battle? I ask this because I typically just treat it as a, "Oh, got a good amount of mobs on me. I want moar HP!" kinda thing. I know it's a nice thing to use for tank busters in Extreme Primals or raids (not that I've done any as a tank yet), but what about dungeons?

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Just treat Thrill as you would Rampart (Gladiator) or Shadowskin (Dark Knight), it's roughly 20% damage mitigation on a longer CD. As people have mentioned you should combine Thrill with Convalescence, they share their recast timer and synergize perfectly with each other. Do note that Convalescence does NOT boost the healing power of Thrill of Battle itself, so always use it right after using thrill.

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Originally Posted by Ariase

2. I'll probably be stoned to death for this one, but... Should I really use Fracture while leveling? I think that, since I got it, up until I hit Lv. 50... I've used it... 4 times? And that wasn't even until Cutter's Cry... I used it so rarely that I even decided to take it off my hotbars entirely. If I should be using it, where do I apply it? During Berserk, just before it ends, after Storm's Eye?

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Before lvl 50 Fracture is without a doubt a DPS gain, you should strive to keep it up as much as possible. Re-apply it when it falls off but do not allow your combo to be interrupted (ie. NEVER use it after Heavy Swing, Maim, nor Skull Sunder). This is pretty much true until level 54, when you gain the almighty Fell Cleave, at this point Fracture usage becomes a bit more... complicated. I have heard people claim that 100% uptime is still a DPS increase but from personal experience this really hasn't been the case. This doesn't mean that Fracture becomes useless, it should still be used in a Triple Fell Cleave combo if your Skill Speed is high enough, but that's a more advanced conversation and doubt it's something you want to dig into now.

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Originally Posted by Ariase

3. This one is a bit more difficult; How should I rotate my defensive cooldowns depending on the number of mobs on me? Like if I have 4 mobs on me, I start with Vengeance then Bloodbath. When Vengeance wheres off, I go for ToB and when BB wheres off, I got for Foresight. I usually throw IB in when I can/if I don't need aggro generation on other mobs (a.k.a. I don't need SC), and Convalescence and Second Wind as needed. I know it's a case-by-case thing, but is there some kind of rotation for cooldowns in situations like these? Or do I just go full #YOLO and wing it? (Probably a God awful idea, but... it works... some times...)

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One thing to understand is that there is absolutely no point in not using cooldowns during dungeon runs. Think about it for a second, altho Vengeance has a cooldown of 120 seconds each mob pull will easily take you somewhere between 40 - 100 + seconds to clear (depending in the size of said mob and your group DPS), you will have some sort of cooldown available every other pull, there is no point holding onto them as tank busters don't really exist in 4 man content (sure cleaves, but nothing that REQUIRES a cooldown). I'm not saying you shouldn't use cooldowns against bosses (use them) but saving them is a complete waste of time. In my case I tend to just handle cooldowns in this sort of way...

Pull Mob A -> Use Cooldown A -> Kill Mob A -> Pull Mob B -> Use Cooldown B -> Kill Mob B -> Pull Mob C -> Cooldown A is probably Available Again, use it (If not use Cooldown C) -> Kill Mob C -> Pull Mob D -> Cooldown B is probably Available Again, use it (If not then A is definetly Available) -> Kill (Mob D) -> Repeat.

Don't burn them in ONE pull but be sure to simply spread them out, use one cooldown per pull and you should have them back regularly. This becomes easier as you level and you gain access to more and more mitigation skills. But in the case of WAR it is worth also understanding how well some skills synergize with others, as to vastly improve their utility. A good example that has been stated was Thrill + Convalescence but it doesn't end there for WAR, here are some other REALLY nice combinations....

This is my Favorite large pull Rotation (Click here): Basically you change to Defiance before the pull, Infuriate in order to gain max stacks, proceed to pull as many mobs (within reason) as possible. As soon as you decide you're going to stop Immediately use Vengeance (do not wait to get hit as you will get hit by a large number of enemies and this will destroy you if you wait any longer) followed right away by bloodbath. This will offer you some HP regen on top of extra enmity from the vengeance counter. Proceed to get Maim'd up, switch to deliverance (yes DELIVERANCE), pop in Berserk and Internal Release then proceed to spam the hell out of Overpower. The amount of self regen Berserk Bloodbath gives is pretty insane. Not only will you have massive mitigation but you will be delivering a LOT of damage. Once berserk is about to run out switch to Defiance and finish it off with a Steel Cyclone. This is useful up to level 60, where you should just switch up Steel Cyclone for Decimate. If your party is good then stuff should be dead by then, if not then proceed to use another cooldown (if the pull is large) or just stay in defiance past this point until stuff is dead. If you feel unsafe doing this in Deliverance then just stick to Defiance during the entire thing, it's still a kick ass combination.

Berserk + Bloodbath + Internal Release + Overpower: These should always be used together, Vengeance will not always be up but Bloodbath and Zerk share the same recast timer, treat them as one big cooldown.

Thrill of Battle + Convalescence: Two other Cooldowns that work together like Bread and Butter, you should always use them together.

Raw Intuition + Awareness: Another awesome combination of skills that work better with WAR than they do with PLD. Awareness cancels out the penalty of Raw Intuition so they should be used together when possible, sadly Awareness has a long cooldown so it might not always be possible. This is only a real issue if you're doing a large pull, during small and medium pulls it shouldn't be an issue unless the enemies you're fighting are large and can't overlap with each other well, you can use Raw Intuition alone just fine with small group of mobs. Do note that this is physical only so it will not be useful against every group of mob.

Foresight: ... Don't forget this exists. Be aware that 20% Increases defense does NOT mean 20% Damage Mitigation (the actual number is MUCH lower, something around ~8%) so do not depend on this cooldown but if you have nothing else it is still better than nothing. This + Defiance is ... better than 0% mitigation. This only affects physical damage as well, so no magic mitgiation.

With that you have 3 cooldown combinations you can rotate with in a dungeon. Use Berserk + Bloodbath in one pull, use Thrill + Conva in your second pull, use Raw Intuition + Awareness in your next pull. Rinse and repeat. You will have some sort of mitigation up every pull, your healers will love you... Just don't save them until the boss and don't burn them all in ONE pull (unless its a large pull).

...Hope this TL;DR helped.

Aah Fracture.

Pros: It can under the right circumstances and the moon being in the right position while DPSing be a slight DPS boost.

Cons: Uses TP faster. Doesn't combo with anything. Doesn't generate a stack.

As other's have said, if you can squeeze it in at the end of your berserk without messing up a combo, go for it. Otherwise it's not enough of a game changer to really worry about it.

It really could use a buff.

Whenever I play DRK I have to hit myself every time I forget their dot, because it's ACTUALLY really worth using and keeping it up, no question.

Thanks for the replies, everyone~ @Merkava I read it all. xD And it'll definitely help.

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Originally Posted by Merkava

Thrill of Battle + Convalescence: Two other Cooldowns that work together like Bread and Butter, you should always use them together.

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Might I ask why these are always to be used together? Convalescence doesn't buff the extra HP given by Thrill of Battle, so unless you are taking so much damage that Thrill doesn't mitigate it enough, it seems like a waste of two long CDs that work fine solo.

I know that Convalescence will allow the healer to more easily fill the gap in HP created by Thrill, but that HP is essentially wasted when Thrill of Battle ends.

(Apologies to OP if this discussion is unwanted in your thread. Merkava, the other info you included was great so I wanted to know if there was something I might not have thought about.)

From seeing how Thrill and Conv work I guess pairing them together creates an effect like Defiance: the extra HP gain (Thrill) plus increased heals received (Conv), which is why it's recommended to pair them together. So I suppose if, for example, you went to Deliverance you could hit those two to create a mini Defiance, like how PLD/DRKs can use Rampart/Shadowskin when they drop their respective tank stances for similar reasons.

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Originally Posted by Ariase

Or do I just go full #YOLO and wing it? (Probably a God awful idea, but... it works... some times...)

Thank you in advance~ \o/

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Never go full YOLO.

Also do not forget Brutal Swing.

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Originally Posted by AriKitae

Might I ask why these are always to be used together? Convalescence doesn't buff the extra HP given by Thrill of Battle, so unless you are taking so much damage that Thrill doesn't mitigate it enough, it seems like a waste of two long CDs that work fine solo.

I know that Convalescence will allow the healer to more easily fill the gap in HP created by Thrill, but that HP is essentially wasted when Thrill of Battle ends.

(Apologies to OP if this discussion is unwanted in your thread. Merkava, the other info you included was great so I wanted to know if there was something I might not have thought about.)

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Pretty much what FeliAiko said. The thing about Thrill is that without conva it's just kinda a small HP boost, it does pretty much nothing in terms of direct mitigation (not saying it's bad but its not as effective as Shadowskin nor Rampart in that regard). You don't use it to boost Thrill's HP recovery but in order to boost whatever Regen/Fairy Heal is on you in order to take advantage of the extra HP. Using them together basically grants you Defiance for 20 seconds and since they share a rescast timer it just seems like a natural choice. In most dungeons runs having 3 sets of Cooldown Rotations (as I mentioned above) is usually enough as mobs tend to die quickly and the time between pulls is usually long enough to rotate between them easily.

Granted tho, I'm talking dungeons. In raids it's not ALWAYS a good idea to pair them as you might need Conva for certain situations where Thrill isn't needed (ie. When needing to spread Aldo via Deployment Tactics right before an ultimate). But ultimately if you choose to use them separate that works, 4 man content isn't hard enough to really matter THAT much anyway.

1.) Convo near the end of your pull -> Thrill directly after. For bosses use it while you're in Deliverance. If you're doing small pulls (ie 3-4 mobs at a time) then your CD rotation should be used to stay in DPS stance as much as possible since the incoming damage will be so low. If you're doing big pulls, usually I use a combination of:

A.) Get up Maim as I'm collecting packs -> When I reach the end: Vengeance + Bloodbath + Berserk (+ IR) + Deliverance + OP spam
B.) Get up Maim as I'm collecting packs -> When I'm nearing the end: Thrill + Convo + Foresight -> When I've reached the end: Bloodbath + Berserk (+ IR) + Awareness + Deliverance + OP spam

Depending on comfort level, you can use your Infuriate for either Unchained (to stay in tank stance longer without really compromising anything) or a Berserk'd Decimate (doing 2 is generally pointless as the potency loss from building those stacks vs just OP spam is quite a bit, though if you're too low on TP it's a fine option). I also double weave my CDs, as an example for the first pull I'll usually do: Vengeance -> OP -> Bloodbath + IR -> OP -> Deliverance + Berserk -> OP x infinity. If you're going for the decimiate you want to try and get as many OPs as possible under the 5 stacks of Abandon without compromising yourself the full effect of Decimate.

All that said, since you're leveling, I wouldn't recommend considering the above until max level where you can feel free to goof around more due to all the gear. Just work on rotating your CDs and finding where your comfort level is.

2.) Fracture is always a DPS increase unless the boss goes invincible before the full duration ticks. It's 300 potency, which is higher than everything except Fell Cleave (and equal to IB). However, using Fracture doesn't "cost" you an FC until ~8 uses by which it has already exceeded that one FC in potency. But it is an extremely minor DPS increase - if you are looking to min/max, then working in Fracture to tick all the time is fine, otherwise it's not worth the headache. It also has the possibility of offsetting optimal IB/Unchained usage, so that's something to consider down the line. That said, people are right about using Fracture in your opener, however only if you're able to hit 9 GCDs - otherwise you're better off using your 8 for SE combo -> BB combo -> IB/FC -> SE combo imo.

3.) See: 1.

Some posts have probably made things more clear than I have, but just thought I'd weigh in. d( ' - '