Square not banning someone who uses RMT

Something that really bothers me during the last weeks is that apparently Square looks like to not ban someone i have reported for using RMT. I know that person since a longer time (Not being friends) and i know that person is using RMT to get an unfair advantage over other player. I have screenshots wich prove that i am right because he made the mistake to say hes using it in chat so i made some screenshots of it. Anyway i did report him around 5 times now during the last weeks and what? Nothing happens at all. I mean Square is that for real? How much more prove do you want to ban someone whos using it? This whole thing makes me really sad because it gives me as legit players the feeling that Square doesnt really give a damn about it. Especially since in terms of RMT, the customer service doesnt reply to you so i dont really know where i stay at the moment.

This reminds me of my highschool days and that one subject I hated.. Philosophy.

You see.. According to ethic reporting him is the right thing to do. According to morals, reporting him for no longer being friends as a way to take revenge is wrong.

Tbh I wouldn't think much about it. Maybe he got a light ban or something. After all RMT doesn't give a huge advantage in this game (apart from housing and relic there's no uses at all for it seeing as best gear is untradeable and materia rank5s are free from void ark).

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Originally Posted by Alexftw

This reminds me of my highschool days and that one subject I hated.. Philosophy.

... in this game (apart from housing and relic there's no uses at all for it seeing as best gear is untradeable and materia rank5s are free from void ark).

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Ahh dont get me wrong, that player was never a friend of me. Just a random guy who is a friend of a friend but it annoys me as i am a legit player at heart and i cant deal with that (like doing nothing and just ignore it). That player is also in my fc and on marketboard whole time next to me. Technically could just go to another mb but why should i adjust my playstyle just to avoid someone like him.
In their customer menu they say they have zero tolerance, wich means a perma ban if you use RMT, simple as that.

I suspected that so but seeing as you bothered reporting 5x it just seemed like you had another reason to. Otherwise would you tell me you report every bot you find out there until they get banned? That's pretty much what we are comparing. And well who knows. Maybe it was so long ago that they don't have acess to these logs anymore. Or maybe he got a warning from a mod and if he happens to do it again he'd get banned. Or maybe your server gets so many Rmt reports that they still haven't had time to read your report. In mine at least they always reply within 24 hours.

While I'd like to see a more aggressive approach on this. I just don't see it happening to the expectation everyone wants. After all, SE does have some gain in these RMTs whether it be phantom numbers to inflate user sign-ups or them simply buying the game over. I suspect there is a balance somewhere. Maybe he'll get what's coming in due time. It takes time to ban account. A lot of manpower and investigation. For some, this game is essentially another life. They wouldn't want to take that away without due process. For all we know, he could just be trolling you.

Now that you told me what he used that Rmt for I feel even happier xD.

So he wasted his money for a small advantage that can be compensated with either skill or waiting three weeks for gear.

Pretty sure as long as he is a paying customer, SE is going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

SE, since it is a big corporation, probably has a ton of protocol fluff for this kind of stuff. I bet it goes something like:

-You report the player. Did he say he bought gil? Yes.
-A GM reviews the case. Can they prove he bought gil, or was he just trying to brag? Undetermined.
-A GM begins an investigation;
-Did he have any suspicious transactions? Undetermined.
-Did he associate with an account that SE knows for sure sells gil? Undetermined.
-Can they even research the player he had a transaction with, or does that player now no longer exist?
-If he does exist, does he have a track record of supplying RMT?

These are all things that SE does, I am willing to bet. If anyone has ever had a corporate job in any capacity, you know there are tons of needless hoops for everything. You saw someone steal in a store? Well, corporate policy says you can't even imply or accuse them of theft. So you watch them steal and leave and you had no power to do anything about it. You saw someone sabotage their own meal in a restaurant? Well, corporate policy says you can't do anything about that so give them the free meal they want and pretend you didn't just see them scam you.

SE is making money off of cheaters and fair players alike. So, while it works out great for the regular player (who is essentially immune to being framed for cheating via RMT due to the thorough checks), for those who actually cheat, they can get away with it for some time. They are a paying customer, and no corporation is going to cut off their customers (read: income) unless they have numerical, objective data that that person is ruining their livelihood, product, or turning others away via their actions. Anybody can foolishly proclaim that they buy RMT gil, but SE has to have some sort of check in place to show the truth of the matter, and like most companies, it is probably so overly thorough that in the long run it doesn't even work as it is intended.

Tl;dr: Just ignore that guy and pretend he doesn't exist, continue on playing how you wish to play, and hope he gets his just desserts.

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Originally Posted by LadyVal

Tl;dr: Just ignore that guy and pretend he doesn't exist, continue on playing how you wish to play, and hope he gets his just desserts.

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As said hes in my fc and whole day around me in chat/marketboard. Blacklisting would lead to broken conversations in fc chat and even then hes around me whole day. And i am not going to adjust the way i would like to play just to avoid an rmt user. As said i have multiple screenshots of chatlogs wich 100% prove hes using it since he says it by himself. Square Enix says they have 0 tolerance against rmt, wich cant just mean a light ban of 3 weeks or what not. Dunno what Square is prefering. Loosing a cheating player or loosing a legit player actually.

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Originally Posted by Sanghelios

As said hes in my fc and whole day around me in chat/marketboard. Blacklisting would lead to broken conversations in fc chat and even then hes around me whole day. And i am not going to adjust the way i would like to play just to avoid an rmt user. As said i have multiple screenshots of chatlogs wich 100% prove hes using it since he says it by himself. Square Enix says they have 0 tolerance against rmt, wich cant just mean a light ban of 3 weeks or what not. Dunno what Square is prefering. Loosing a cheating player or loosing a legit player actually.

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Well if you don't want to blacklist him, that's fine. I didn't say change anything you do other than ignore that this guy exists. As I explained in length, from SE's perspective, you are both paying and putting money in SE's pockets to play the game, and regardless of if he says he buys gil or not, SE is not going to rush to cut him off and cut off part of their income unless they find some way to absolutely prove (by their standards) that he is actually doing what he claimed to do. There is nothing we as players can do to help you, especially if you refuse to do anything differently from how you play right now, so I'm not entirely sure what kind of answer you're looking to get. You're both paying customers to SE and they'd take just as long to investigate you if you said you bought gil, even though you didn't.

How does he have an advantge over you? How are you in competition with this guy?

Maybe he got a 24 hour ban. Maybe there was not enough evidence to show money actually changed hand. Maybe he didn't do it. Maybe he will get banned with a wave of people later on. Either way it doesn't sound like something worth worrying about to the point where you feel the need to spend the time reporting him 5 times.

It may not be a huge advantage but there really is no denying that these people are just supporting the mass inflation of Market Board sells. People see the Zu mount sell for 20mil, everyone is going to keep posting for 20mil and only once these people start slitting throats and under cutting will you see it start to trickle down before it either shoots back up or people over saturate it to where your just better off giving it away. I've worked hard for my money, Ive crafted, sold shards/clusters/minions I won in rolls and all together I've just barely scrapped 10mil in my game time (sitting on 6mil now). When I see numbers like that I just shake my head cus I personally know I will never pay that, but I know those who are filthy rich and those who buy from RMT will when there really is no point to the prices.

I do understand most of your guys points actually. However it feels like you want me to just deal with it and i really wonder how you can say something like that. Using RMT is actually the worst someone can do to a game and yes, i did report even bots back in the day and this player is the only one i know who uses rmt, thats why i report him few times already. I love this game and i would like to have my fc and everything around me as clear as possible, why should i just ignore those things when i can change it or do something against it? Ignoring it would just be a defeat for all honest players and a victory for RMT in general. Surely only a drop on the hot stone, but every drop fills the bottle no?

Wearing 220 pentamelded is definitely not a proof he bought his gils. In fact, in a well-organized compagny, it does not cost a single gil to craft them.

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Originally Posted by Sanghelios

I do understand most of your guys points actually. However it feels like you want me to just deal with it and i really wonder how you can say something like that. Using RMT is actually the worst someone can do to a game and yes, i did report even bots back in the day and this player is the only one i know who uses rmt, thats why i report him few times already. I love this game and i would like to have my fc and everything around me as clear as possible, why should i just ignore those things when i can change it or do something against it? Ignoring it would just be a defeat for all honest players and a victory for RMT in general. Surely only a drop on the hot stone, but every drop fills the bottle no?

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You didn't ignore him. You reported him. It's out of your hands now. Ignore and move on.

Too many people attacking the OP here (did you all buy your gil too?) for making a judgment call. I'm on the OP's side here. There's always been this hypocrisy around gil-selling versus gil-buying. The buyers tend to be ignored, while the sellers are apparently hated beyond reason, are the scum of the universe and need to die in a firey blaze by being shoved up Ifrit's colon.

Let's be honest, the buyers are the reason the sellers exist. If anything, we should be taking action against the buyers MORE than the sellers. If there's no market, there's no one selling, it's simple cause and effect guys. So when someone brings up a perfectly legitimate argument, asking why SE isn't taking action, let's not pretend the OP is evil just because they did the right thing and reported it.

Stuff like this only makes people less inclined to report buying, and that ultimately means more sellers to worry about. SE, get your RMT team together, and get investigating.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

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I agree, it's sad when the mentality among the community tends to be "How does it effect you?" "Ignore and move on" or (my favorite) "What are you the Bot Police?!".

While I won't get into how those arguments do not work, I will say to OP that you did about as much as you can do sadly. You've reported him & now it's up to SE whether or not they investigate it & stick to their Policy. I've been in a similar boat where I've caught legitimate players using bot programs or have admitted to purchasing RMT gil & reported it, only to see them on the next day, and the next day, and the next day, -_-

So my advice is as far as reporting goes, I don't think reporting again will do anything if you've already done it 5 times, so since said person is also in your FC I'd maybe try to have a talk with your FC Leader about it & see what they say. If they don't have a problem with it then you might have to think about if it's worth staying with a FC that approves of something you are against.

SE don't perma ban the buyer, the seller is perma ban not the buyer "look the launcher".

The buyer risk a 7 days max ban and all the gold erase ;)

so you reported some1 numerous times you have more or less stated you dont like.. sounds like some1s got a grudge or bitter towards some1 lol

Banning somebody isn't so easy as looking at a report and then banning the person forever. They need to be able to prove it and that takes time reviewing logs and examining behaviours to determine if they are using RMT. I've seen people wrongly accused of being gold sellers in other games and just have their account deleted with no way of getting it back. These were top players on the server and worked very hard farming dungeons and selling drops for loads of gold or selling runs.

Often when people get banned they start shouting about how they were wronged either way so SE has to be able to say they have proof they were correct in banning somebody otherwise it causes problems. You can't be involved in investigating things so it may seem that they are doing nothing they seem to do things in batches somewhat once they have enough proof they decide on a punishment for first time offenders they sometimes get a warning or a short term ban and others will get a perma ban right away.

Unfortunately they take a very long time to ban, if they do it all all. There's people who've bragged in game, on forums, on websites & in videos about botting/hacking/cheating/buying gil. So much so, that there's far more evidence than a court case would require, yet they're still merrily playing in game. It doesn't portray the game in a good light.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

You didn't ignore him. You reported him. It's out of your hands now. Ignore and move on.

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This just needs to be re-iterated. I don't think anybody is attacking the OP, nor is anyone saying "Meh buying gil is fine." We all know it affects the game. But after we file a report, we as players, have literally no other options left except to blacklist or ignore someone. I think most of the "ignore him" advice stemmed from the fact that the OP said they already reported the person multiple times. At that point nobody except a GM has any action available to them to stop him.

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Originally Posted by Mandoska-Beauregard

SE don't perma ban the buyer, the seller is perma ban not the buyer "look the launcher".

The buyer risk a 7 days max ban and all the gold erase ;)

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Yup. Gil buyers don't get perma-banned, SE wants their money. Only gil sellers get properly banned.

As someone who spent about the first two weeks of 3.2 gathering loads of aethersands to make the gil needed to get proper raiding gear made, I can understand where you're coming from. It's crap that people spending real money can get all the good stuff much faster. However, I honestly just don't think it's worth thinking too hard about. There's nothing in this video game about raiding and gearing that is even remotely worth getting upset about because some dude with a bunch of cash got a temporary advantage assuming he didn't get beat to the punch by all the dudes who've had hundreds of millions of gil on their persons since 3.1. As Alex said, there isn't much of an advantage that can be bought with gil.If you know how to make money, it's not even worth sweating imo

The dude may get banned, or may not. As far as I'm aware, they have to do extensive investigations to make those sorts of calls, so don't jump the gun assuming they're doing nothing.

There's a player on my server that bought gorillions of gil, name's [Superman's real name], has apparently been banned but not his gil removed. Pretty much everybody on the server knows he is a gilbuyer.

Me and a bunch of other players did some research on how much gil he spent on the market board by going through literally every item on the market board and checking the past history on sales. This player had spent over a billion gil in a couple months on the market board buying all kinds of stuff, while never actually selling much himself. He pretends to be a crafter by spending hundreds of millions on crafting gear and materia but never really makes use of it. We filed a 250+ line long report, but it never bore any fruit.

Well actually, a GM told me they don't actually give a damn once i asked one and told me to piss off(in lighter terms).

It's so absolutely disgusting.

Disclaimer: I am in no way defending gil buyers/sellers or attacking the OP.

That said, do you have any evidence that he bought gil other than him saying he bought gil? I can say I am the Queen of England but it doesn't make it so. Why would he say something that could get him banned? It's the internet... people say stupid shit all the time. Maybe you are right and SE dropped the ball, maybe they are still investigating, or maybe he was just talking bullshit. Either way, you did your due diligence by reporting something you found hinky... there isn't really anything further you should (or can) do.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see any huge advantage in buying gil anyway. it seems all you can really get is cosmetic items or crafted gear that becomes outdated in literally 2 weeks. So it's like not only did they waste their in game money, but they wasted their real lie money as well, when all they needed was patience

More relevant:
Square not banning people who use third party applications such as Guildwork to notify them of hunts, and ACT to give them sound notifications when bosses do moves, and because "apparently" you absolutely can not improve DPS without the use of this third party tool (sarcasm).

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Originally Posted by melisande

More relevant:
Square not banning people who use third party applications such as Guildwork to notify them of hunts, and ACT to give them sound notifications when bosses do moves, and because "apparently" you absolutely can not improve DPS without the use of this third party tool (sarcasm).

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As weird as it sounds, you could almost argue that using those is far more damaging to the well being of the game as an entirety; then someone spending real life money to obtain a glamour or house.

It sounds like your in the wrong FC if they don't kick people who admit to buying gil.

try not to get your panties in a wad. they've probably flagged the guy if that's any consolation.

Since when has S-E ever cared about RMT? At this point, I've given up dealing with them. A several hundred page thread was made in protest to the RMT issue and S-E dimissed it completely. From what I can tell, until RMT becomes an issue in Japan, no action will be taken to counteract it. Arbitrary weekly Lodestone numbers are arbitrary, as they always have been.

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Originally Posted by melisande

More relevant:
Square not banning people who use third party applications such as Guildwork to notify them of hunts, and ACT to give them sound notifications when bosses do moves, and because "apparently" you absolutely can not improve DPS without the use of this third party tool (sarcasm).

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Banning people who use ACT would mean banning almost all raiding guilds, that's not going to happen.