My view of PVP in FFXIV , why its no fun and how it could be good.

Hello,
you probably clicked on this because you disagree that PVP is not fun, or you are interested what ideas I could have, maybe you agree with me . Whatever, we are all here because we like FFXIV and we want it to stay success full and enjoy it for as long as possible as it could be.That’s at least my motivation and why I decided to post this.

Regarding PVP in general it can be fun and seal rock is the most fun game mode atm including feast. A lot of people will say this is not a PVP game and only a side aspect, but seeing the effort SE put into feast , hyping it, adding seasons and even anticipate it to become E-sporty, it seems SE wants PVP/Feast to become a bigger aspect of FFXIV.

But sadly Feast will not live up to its hype. The gamemechanics converted from PVE into PVP just don't work. As it is now its just like Wolves den with some little twists. It becomes boring very fast because every game is essentially the same, the healers run away and try to survive bothered by the enemy tank or a melee or both. Ranged dps try to burst as much damage as possible before they get targeted and die, tanks just smack away at the healers in hopes to make some impact. Melee dps target someone and try to kill them. There is the occasionally sleep , bind or other CC attempts but basically it becomes boring fast. There is no room for different tactics and it just does not have the depth to become a long lasting popular gamemode in ffxiv.

So how could PVP be implemented in FFXIV? First it needs its own separate skillset. Keeping the skills and spells from PVE just doesnt’t work, they where not made for PVP and trying to build PVP around them will IMO never work. You could have PVP equivalents or similar skills, Tanks need provoke that forces the target to only be able to attack the tank, Weapon skills and combos need to be tuned so that its not only about bursting targets down. Healers need more room to heal and the damage needs to be tuned so healers don’t become the main target or have to endure so much pressure. Basically players should be able to endure much more damage healers should have to heal less , so the game becomes more like a marathon instead of a sprint.
Then it should have different objectives , npc enemy's and its own progression. Think MOBA like league of legends or smite. You start every game at level 1 with only 1 or 2 skills, then you have minions that try walk into the enemy base and damage something, now you kill minions to gain XP and skill points that let you level up your skills and get new skills. Then there could be a item shop that lets you buy gear for that match , other side objectives like jungle camps that give you buffs ect.ect. That way it could be a lot of fun.
Ill finish here
TL;DR To make PVP in FFXIV good it needs to be like a MOBA(Lol/Smite).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Legends
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smite_%28video_game%29

I actually can't stand LoL, but enemy npc spawns for you and your oppenents could make for some interesting battles. My only concern is if players with enough points (probably from the points from opponent drops) would be able to buy stronger minions to fight for them. Also I think the map should be bigger to compensate the possibilities for a large-scale minion/WoL war........Man I'm surprised how great this idea sounds. : O

NPCs that must be killed to earn points... so, Frontlines? Seriously, points were earned primarily through taking out NPC opponents and there were side-objectives for points. The only thing it didn't have that your model did was an item shop, NPCs attacking your base, and xp earned mid-match.

I actually feel that the new mode DOES do enough to change things up to keep it interesting. For starters, they DID make it so healers are no longer the primary targets. Sure, healers help keep people alive, but folks can return to the battle fairly quickly and if you keep focusing on the healers (who have a lot of skills to keep their asses alive) you're not going to be getting any points. Instead, it's the folks who have a ton of medals, which is likely to be DPS though groups can also emphasize having the tank grab medals to make use of their survivability mechanics.

What you're describing is a moba. This is MMO PvP. Other than the poor net code and the 2.5s GCD, this game's PVP is hardly different from other MMO's. I don't like your ideas, because it takes too much away from the PLAYER aspect of PvP.

Also, I disagree that the matches are always the same. Maybe you're doing the same things? Have you tried changing your strategies?

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Originally Posted by Laladyn

Regarding PVP in general it can be fun and 24man seal rock is the most fun game mode atm including feast.

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I fixed this for you ;)

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Originally Posted by Renault

What you're describing is a moba. This is MMO PvP. Other than the poor net code and the 2.5s GCD, this game's PVP is hardly different from other MMO's. I don't like your ideas, because it takes too much away from the PLAYER aspect of PvP.

Also, I disagree that the matches are always the same. Maybe you're doing the same things? Have you tried changing your strategies?

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Yes thats the only way i can see PVP become good, Totally different skills, Objective game mode, Match progression including XP and item shop. They should just play some LOL and Smite and copy that whole conecpt , and put it on FFXIV. Healers are still a primary target, i dont experience much differnce between feast and Fold

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Originally Posted by Synestra

I fixed this for you ;)

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Is there some other seal rock beside 24 man?

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

NPCs that must be killed to earn points... so, Frontlines? Seriously, points were earned primarily through taking out NPC opponents and there were side-objectives for points. The only thing it didn't have that your model did was an item shop, NPCs attacking your base, and xp earned mid-match.

I actually feel that the new mode DOES do enough to change things up to keep it interesting. For starters, they DID make it so healers are no longer the primary targets. Sure, healers help keep people alive, but folks can return to the battle fairly quickly and if you keep focusing on the healers (who have a lot of skills to keep their asses alive) you're not going to be getting any points. Instead, it's the folks who have a ton of medals, which is likely to be DPS though groups can also emphasize having the tank grab medals to make use of their survivability mechanics.

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You have to kill npcs to get XP and skill points not match points. With these points you grow stronger and level up your PVP skills.

What I want to see is large scale 1 team vs another team that has many different modes of pvp. Basically I want WoW pvp in FF14 ;-; and the healer classes to be more balanced. (Not astros nerfed, but rather other healers buffed, like, cast timer of spells decreased for the other healers, or become instant like the astros have. spell interrupts make healing very hard for the other classes).. Maybe some self heals for the caster classes too, with that sprint buff they are finding it harder to stay alive and do dps. (And I am finding it harder to heal them :<)

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Originally Posted by Laladyn

Is there some other seal rock beside 24 man?

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Dont tell me you get more 24mans than 72mans because that would make me jelly D:

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Dont tell me you get more 24mans than 72mans because that would make me jelly D:

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Oh sorry i totally misunderstood what you meant.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

What I want to see is large scale 1 team vs another team that has many different modes of pvp. Basically I want WoW pvp in FF14 ;-; and the healer classes to be more balanced. (Not astros nerfed, but rather other healers buffed, like, cast timer of spells decreased for the other healers, or become instant like the astros have. spell interrupts make healing very hard for the other classes).. Maybe some self heals for the caster classes too, with that sprint buff they are finding it harder to stay alive and do dps. (And I am finding it harder to heal them :<)

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Astros having as many instant casts as they do is broke in PVP, it makes it almost impossible to do anything against them. I think if they at least lowered the amount of time the shields are up or reduce the healing potency for PVP only it could make it a little more balanced. In the last match I played we had the AST dead to rights and in less than a second healed back to full as if nothing ever happened, and there's not a lot tanks can do to stop them. We can stun them for a limited time but the diminishing returns starts taking affect pretty quick so it's little more than a stop gap measure.

I get what you mean and I generally agree. I, mean, as much as I hate to bring up WoW, even during Vanilla PvP was gold there.

Just take a look at one random skill. Let's take... Ice Block for Mages for example. It makes you immune to everything for 10 seconds but you can't move or do anything. Do any DPS in this game have anything similar? No, our defensive CD's suck in this game. Featherfoot doesn't make much of a difference for example. Most of the CC and defensive/offensive CD's in this game are generic, except for tanks maybe. It's not fun gameplay and u can't plan anything or make fun tactics.

Things that stand out are things like Hallowed Ground, Holmgang, One Ilm Punch, Sleep.

We need more of that.

This thread is atrocious and none of you want real pvp (the feast). To add any objectives or npcs is ludicrous and you should go play another game. Don't make this something it's not.

I kinda like PVP in BnS and its not MOBA, so not only MOBA model. What Feast is needed is better ranking system, maybe better matchmaking system.

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Originally Posted by Nox_Shinya

Things that stand out are things like Hallowed Ground, Holmgang, One Ilm Punch, Sleep.

We need more of that.

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SE should remove those useless stat traits and make them actual PvP skills instead, only issue would be hotbars/keybinds as it would add alot more new skills in the play.

I never get bored with pvp even when I queu the same job over and over. It's super fun :) Thank you yoshi and the dev team!

I would love to see an arena that sections off to allow for some temporary 2v2 or 1v1 :)