So, them Allagans... (possible spoilers)

Whatever happened to them? I mean, we only have bits and pieces of their fate, right? They were obviously a VERY high tech society, yet they seemed to have completely disappeared before any one in the game even came into existence. How? When?? I heard/read something about a great earthquake that wiped them out... but would it really be that easy? What about the residents of Azys Lla? Where'd they go? Was there a sky earthquake too? How would that even work??

I'd be nice to get a storyline pertaining to this.

Give the Crystal Tower storyline a go! That really delves into the waning of the Allagan Empire. I'm sure someone here can summarize it for you much better than I ever could, but if you want to hear it for yourself, that's where it is in the game!

There was civil war raging prior to the Calamity that destroyed the Allagan Empire.

Otherwise, it was a lot of factors:

The earthquake sunk the Crystal Tower into the earth and CT at the time was a source of unlimited energy for the Allagans, without it most of their technology would not work. Coupled with the initial mass death of the earth quake, they were left with no (competent) leader since Xande was sealed in the CT.

I'd also imagine that the remaining pure Allagan were hunted and killed. Azys Lla most likely was evacuated since it was sent way up into the sky and the key was left with the Vanu Vanu to guard. Not sure how this could have played out, whether it was the WoL/ rebels that did it to prevent the Empire from using it or it was the Empire itself to do it to safeguard against the rebels.

Unfortunately, CT was written completely ignorant to the existence of Azys Lla, so certain answers it provided that worked at the time don't really work as well now, or require tremendous leaps to fill gaps in the lore, like myahele's post above. Also, a lot happens that wouldn't have flown at the time if parties concerned were aware of another death fortress still out there somewhere. How many infinite power sources does one need to destroy the world, that Dalamud would need to be built after sealing the Triad?

But I have other bones to pick with that storyline, so ignore me.

I dunno, I think it all fits together plenty well. Nothing about myahele's post is a huge leap, to me, and CT is absolutely still the most detailed primary source on the fall of Allagan civilization that we have - the bulk of our theorizing will inevitably go back to it as a major source of information. If you wanna learn about the Allagans, it's basically required reading (playing?).

Let me put it this way. Imagine we live on civilisation where everything we doing our current day life, is automatic. Even the need of searching a drink would be automatic. All thanks to advanced machines that operate with unlimited energie and doesnt need mantenience. Those machines were made by orther machines, and subsecuent those machines were made made by orthers. Yes long time ago humans would have being being the first automatons, but need of fabricate them and how to operate them or fix them would be long forgotten. Whats the point of teaching or knowing how to fix something that would never breaks and has unlimited energie? Even if some machines breaks, orthers would fix them

The allagans were a culture were they had no back ups, no plan B on case the automatons fail beacuse they thought it was not necesary. That was their doom.
When everything falled, the survivors had no idea how to fix or operate the remaining machines.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

The allagans were a culture were they had no back ups, no plan B on case the automatons fail beacuse they thought it was not necesary. That was their doom.
When everything falled, the survivors had no idea how to fix or operate the remaining machines.

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All they could do was to go to truly ludicrous lengths so that one day their perpetually hand-holding society could be reinstated as it was always meant to be. Because that was never an issue, the real problem was Xande and Dalamud.

Or was it?

(Like I said, bone to pick.)

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Originally Posted by Fenral

All they could do was to go to truly ludicrous lengths so that one day their perpetually hand-holding society could be reinstated as it was always meant to be. Because that was never an issue, the real problem was Xande and Dalamud.

Or was it?

(Like I said, bone to pick.)

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Xande and the 4th umbral calamity were big issues to.
But despite this, we know that some allagans survived, but given only a few survive and that all their civilisation was wiped out. Despite someone of the royal famili survive, it was not enought to re construct.

Of course they were, but Xande was resurrected for very specific, tangible reasons. There's enough evidence to suggest that the ones who survived not only had no idea how to fend for themselves, but no idea what happened to bring them to that point. They were nostalgic for an era they had never experienced firsthand, concerned only with the perpetuation of a failed, flawed legacy. The larger tragedy is that anyone with enough of a head on their shoulders to plan a viable reconstruction effort went down with the Tower, and the ones who survived were... devout, if nothing else.

I really what to know more about the 4th umbral and astral era.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

I really what to know more about the 4th umbral and astral era.

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Agreed. Shame the Fourth Astral Allagans were just a clerical error.

The Allagan empire reads like a deconstruction of the type of futuristic utopia we see in sci-fi movies like say Tomorrowland or Sailor Moon's Crystal Tokyo. In that in the unlikely event that such events were to happen, the Allagans wound up like the people in Buy'n'Large's Axiom ship (thought a lot more fit) and were ultimately unable to fend for themselves, thinking that the machines will handle it. Their complacency was their downfall, symbolized by the earthquake.

Since it's not been mentioned yet, Azys Lla was a military R & D Facility that specialized in chimerical, Draconic, and void sent bio-reserch.

Many of the parts of Azys Lla actually weren't open to the public due to the amount of danger involved with the research.

Based on some of the nodes dialog, it was also used as a military training ground up until the implementation of the Military Machines taking over as the sole military force.

Any scientists and personnel that didn't escape were likly killed and/or devoured by either the Myricidian Dragons or The Chimeric Beasts.

Keep in mind, Azys Lla survived the earthquake. There may be other non-terrestrial Allagan colonies that survived in isolation with a portion of their technology intact. Though, even if they survived to the present day, they wouldn't exactly be "Allag" by this point.

Is hard to know what exacly happened on Azys la during the start of the 4th umbral calamity. Maybe it was abandoned and sealed before it begans.

PD: I really would like to have a summary of everything is know about the allagans so far.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

Since it's not been mentioned yet, Azys Lla was a military R & D Facility that specialized in chimerical, Draconic, and void sent bio-reserch.

Many of the parts of Azys Lla actually weren't open to the public due to the amount of danger involved with the research.

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Of course, but like any military base, there was a residential complex for servicemen and their families, and amenities that would be of little value to a purely military fortress, like the Fractal Continuum. It's honestly no different from the Crystal Tower, except with fewer illusions as to what was on display.

There's also the neglected remains of what was most likely a self-sustaining garden over by the Habisphere, which is not the sort of thing you abandon in an apocalypse. Keep in mind that the major breakout in the Meracydian sector that sent the place to hell in a handbasket was less than 3000 years ago. Even if most of the place was left alone, the possibility remains that, barring deliberate sabotage, someone could have survived there for quite some time.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

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That is true. And it's all possible.

I personally never get tired of looking around Azys Lla and certainly wouldn't object to exploring more Allagan Compounds. (Still hoping that Nero's Aetherometer was picking up a weapons hanger of some kind below the Labyrinth of Ancients and we get to explore it)

The main problem with determining the long term fate of The Remnants of Allage is that we only recently discovered any reliable information at all on Allage when the tomestones were deciphered. Prior to that any information prior to The Age of Endless Frost (5th Umbral Era) was unreliable at best and complete speculation at worst. And even with the Tomestones information we lack most of the history of the 3rd Astral Era, The Entirety of the time between the 4th and 5th Umbral eras are still unreliable, and everything 3rd Umbral Era and Back are completely unknown pre-history and as much myth as history at this point.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

Is hard to know what exacly happened on Azys la during the start of the 4th umbral calamity. Maybe it was abandoned and sealed before it begans.

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I have a feeling this is tied to Nidhogg in some way, or to one of the Great Wyrms at the very least. That giant broken neurolink in the Aery is STILL entirely unexplained and is likely a missing piece in understanding what actually happened on Azys Lla.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

(Still hoping that Nero's Aetherometer was picking up a weapons hanger of some kind below the Labyrinth of Ancients and we get to explore it)

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I mean, the totally random theory I've put together is that

the Line of Desch (it needs a name) stayed up on Azys Lla up until the Fifth Umbral Era, making its way to Sharlayan via Eorzea around that time by blending in with the Miqo'te migration. Passing through Mor Dhona along the way, the current heir apparent became fully aware of Salina's true plans locked away in his blood, vowing then and there to put an end to the family's oral tradition that it might never come to pass. (Un)fortunately, even without the stories that came with it, there was enough of Allag left in the blood itself that built-in failsafes could start restoring the memories within once the Tower was rediscovered. Whatever is stirring beneath the Labyrinth is not an accident, so much as a necessary part of the plan that must occur before the Tower can be used to restore Allag's "hope."

I just have a feeling that someone supposedly privy to all the Tower's secrets, and supposedly shutting it down completely, would be unaware of second power source underneath.

Everything working out according to Allag's "destiny" needs to get deconstructed badly before I let any of it go.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

I have a feeling this is tied to Nidhogg in some way, or to one of the Great Wyrms at the very least. That giant broken neurolink in the Aery is STILL entirely unexplained and is likely a missing piece in understanding what actually happened on Azys Lla.

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It's supposedly a piece of Dalamud that somehow traveled farther than any single other piece of wreckage, according to Yoshi-P, but that just screams government cover up. There's an entire page in the Heavensward artbook detailing the Allagan wreckage there, and none of it is labeled. A loose bit of Binding Coil with no significance whatsoever would have just been pulled from the T11 assets, not created from scratch.

Even if I understand the use of the crystal tower, I stil gotta dissagreed Fenral. Crystal Tower really looked more than a castle than an energie facility.

Also may I ask why you guys are saing that Azys' La was sabotage on the maracydia break out? What I only remember for the node is that a dragon scape beacuse lack of mantenience 3000 years ago, if Azys La was sabotate, is was only beacuse of lack of mantenience, not beacause of 1 dragon's scape. Unless you mean all the dragons we see on that island? I thought it was something like a zoo or like that.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

Even if I understand the use of the crystal tower, I stil gotta dissagreed Fenral. Crystal Tower really looked more than a castle than an energie facility.

Also may I ask why you guys are saing that Azys' La was sabotage on the maracydia break out? What I only remember for the node is that a dragon scape beacuse lack of mantenience 3000 years ago, if Azys La was sabotate, is was only beacuse of lack of mantenience, not beacause of 1 dragon's scape. Unless you mean all the dragons we see on that island? I thought it was something like a zoo or like that.

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No regulation of breeding, basically, with no culling of subjects, nor the security present to stop them from running wild across Azys Lla, plus the potential of the island's there falling apart over the many years and any security measures falling with them... and there you go.

My basic idea is what to all "super high tech sci-fi military" base's have in comon mostly: when shit hits the fan (like pets escaping) the whole base goes on uber lock down traping everyone inside forever till someone opens it from out side later, like when u send a strike team to clean up the mess, but with Allag having it's Revolt going on at the time I bet the "exterior gaurd force" was recalled to Crystal tower leaving the access key in Vanu hands over time (& then swallowed by Primal Bismark) & without any possible knowladge as to "why" they got the key just that it unlocks Azys Lia it was left un-used till we came later... those poor ppl trapped with murdering monsters & haywire machines for thousands of years, if any decendants actually are "alive" they probably have gone pure Feral by now (or worse become the mobs we are killing now)

just an idea, now back to the shadows of the forum

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Originally Posted by Fenral

It's supposedly a piece of Dalamud that somehow traveled farther than any single other piece of wreckage, according to Yoshi-P, but that just screams government cover up. There's an entire page in the Heavensward artbook detailing the Allagan wreckage there, and none of it is labeled. A loose bit of Binding Coil with no significance whatsoever would have just been pulled from the T11 assets, not created from scratch.

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There's evidence of other impacts in the Churning Mists (with tektite deposits) and the Forelands. Not to mention the strange glowing orange/yellow light underneath Asah. Plus the bridges in abandoned Sharlayan were damaged by the Calamity. There might even be debris to be salvaged from the Orn Wilds. Who knows what they could have planned for future Expert dungeons.

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Originally Posted by AstralKaos

No regulation of breeding, basically, with no culling of subjects, nor the security present to stop them from running wild across Azys Lla, plus the potential of the island's there falling apart over the many years and any security measures falling with them... and there you go.

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If I remember correctly, CT was used as a bridge to get power from the void ( the cloud of darkness ) basically ends with citizens finding out and over throwing their king i think.

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Originally Posted by The_NPC

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OMG this would be an amazing way to get a FFVI easter egg, one of those decendants could be Gau o.O green mage confermerd

There are also Thaumaturge/Conjurer clones in High Allagan gear in the Aethero Chemical Research Facility, specifically in the Triad Control room. So it's quite possible that -while the scientist evacuated- it was the clones that were tasked with certain things to do?

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Originally Posted by Powe

If I remember correctly, CT was used as a bridge to get power from the void ( the cloud of darkness ) basically ends with citizens finding out and over throwing their king i think.

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Thanks?

Not sure what my post has to do with CT. Maybe you've quoted the wrong person?

As far as CT goes, it was already a solar generator, Xande wanted everything to return to nothing and made a pact with the Cloud of Darkness to let her enter and subsequently reduce Eorzea to nothing; in order to make a voidgate large enough he needed more power than what CT offered and sent up Dalamud, which CT channeled power from in a miscalculated amount which caused the end of Allag as it was.

As a result of this dark pact and this nihilist crap from Xande, there was resistance against him, the Allagan people may have tried to overthrow him but they didn't and he was still very much the ruler and in control of the military (as far as we know) as there was a civil war being fought right on his doorstep... he was still very much the ruler until we entered there and finished him you could say.

To be honest, I find the CT story in relation to Allagan stuff rather out of place or... I don't know, it just seems like a forced connection, it just feels sloppy and off.

O I did reply to the wrong person, I was replying to the person you replyed too, sorry

The ones who survived had a diaspora and became other people. Any Allagans who survived CT going down, ceased being allagans in a generation or two. The "descendants" in the CT storyline are clones, they were experimenting with cloning technology and that led to Xande, but before cloning Xande they tried cloning members of his family first. Remember Azys LLa is an experimentation station and a "themepark" so its not a place Allagans lived, maybe some did, but for the most part it seems like it was composed of scientists, automatons, and tourists. This is where they used the Warring Triad for yes power, but also for experimentation (sephi = huge allagans like Xande). So I think the devs are writing a pretty cohesive allagan story, Azys Lla is a cutting edge , out on the frontier research facility, not a back up for CT.

Its more like the place they experimented with things before they made it into CT. They experimented wtith capturing the warring triad before capturing bahamut.

That being said the best places for allagan lore, CT,ST, Coil, and Azys LLa in general (dungeons that come from there, one has lore inside like museum exhibits) and now the Warring Triad primals.

Graha? I think that's his name. I'm not sure he's a "descendant" per se. I think he's more or less a descendant of a family given power by the allag somehow. I could be wrong , could be mixed race, but I don't consider him a true descendant until given more proof.

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

Graha? I think that's his name. I'm not sure he's a "descendant" per se. I think he's more or less a descendant of a family given power by the allag somehow. I could be wrong , could be mixed race, but I don't consider him a true descendant until given more proof.

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You're not going to get it because he's gone, and he took the entire "descendants of Allag" mythos with him. It's possible that he's mixed race, but the writers bent over backwards to explain how his ancestor received the royal blood through transfusion, so best anyone can guess is that "Desch" was a Meracydian Miqo'te who served Salina, who was last of the blood descendants of the "original" Emperor Xande. The so-called "waning blood" that had sent the empire into its downward spiral. Considering her FF3 character had one line for 90% of the game ("Oh! Oh, Desch! /comatose"), I can also guess that she passed on her blood and memories that way because, true to inbred royal form, she was extremely sickly and possibly dying, unlikely to survive in the post Calamity world.

But we can ultimately only guess.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

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The transfusion is what makes me think that the royal blood itself isn't special, theres a magic or magical object in the royal blood that is special that can be given at anytime. I think Graha's ancestor was given this blood etc etc and thus the eye came into being.

I wish they'd add Desch and Salina, but if Desch and Salina had anything to do with Graha it'd be more likely Salina was the miqote and Desch the noble. In III salina is just some sickly girl who lives in Canaan who Desch falls in love with, she's a nobody. But Desch is the ancient with the task to watch over the tower and thus is frozen in time (more important). III is my fave FF ever so I love talking about how it might fit into XIV even more.

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

I wish they'd add Desch and Salina, but if Desch and Salina had anything to do with Graha it'd be more likely Salina was the miqote and Desch the noble.

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The last quest in the CT chain gave us the name "Princess Salina" as pretty much the only justification for G'raha's actions. Going by Yoshida's comments before 2.5 hit, the logic was "G'raha == Desch, therefore he must sacrifice himself because that's what Desch did in FFIII, regardless of his own existing character logic". Wish I were kidding.

Technically, Salina is the last Allagan Princess and G'raha is "Desch," but I've been using "Desch" for his anonymous ancestor who received the blood (and memories) from Salina. They were simultaneously trying to replay Desch's long hibernation in the Tower of Owen and his amnesia/destiny bit that ended with him throwing himself into the reactor. It's messy, to say the least.

Only bit of hope I have left on that is that Desch (in FFIII) wasn't gone forever after the Tower of Owen event: he came back to save the Warriors when they needed him most and all seemed lost. Hasn't happened yet, though, even though Azys Lla seems like the perfect excuse.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

snip of you reminding me of this cs

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Thank you i totally forgot about this. For some reason I didn't remember, today I'm going to go rewatch some of those cutscenes. I remember part of the Graha ending but its been a while since I rewatched them. I was like "WHERE IS HERE GETTING SALINA FROM?" Thank you. Literally been over a year since I saw that CS XD

In light of this...I think Graha will definitely come back when we need him most, I don't think that we are totally done with CT. Square Enix said they'd try to do the CT storyline to the best of their ability but one element is missing, are we Eureka? Yeah CT ended up leading up to the Void, but that's only one aspect of it, if it was shown to somehow also connect to another world (hey Shanttoto was here, lightning was here, I think we can get some cross dimension going on, especially since XIV is the XIVth world in the lore), we can add Graha back as kind of a guide and more lore insight into this. I actually think you are right to call Graha , Desch, since he is technically like Desch in action, and you are probably also right to call his ancestor Desch, cause that is probably what SE would do to change it up a bit XD

I want to call him Gesch now.

I just don't get how we spent all that time with Graha and Unei and Doga and didn't get like an echo flashback to olden days :/

I just think it'd be cool if we were Eureka (its just a dungeon in III, but who's to say that isn't just one dungeon in all Hydaelyn), and some how later on CT led us into III's world. (Literally just a portal to another zone, not even that big and I'd be happy XD)

More on why I think we'd be Eureka: Its a place in III where all the most powerful weapons were locked away. Masamune, Excalibur etc, all protected by a guardian. In this game they aren't protected by a guardian but we have a lot of awfully powerful weapons and crap going on. It would be interesting if XIV was just a throw away world, where other FF worlds dumped their dangerous garbage XD

Here's a old interview. It might shed some light as to what happened to the Allagan Empire post-calamity:

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A: We’ve seen the Allag have spacefaring technology. But we’re told that what destroyed them all was related to earth quakes. How did they get destroyed by earthquakes when they have space ships? Are there any still out there?

F: They forgot to cast float I think.

MCKF: Well I mean… us here on earth we have planes and ships that can go to the moon and things but there’s not a lot of them right? Most of the people are stil on the ground. Same thing with the Allag. An earthquake will still destroy everything on the ground like mission control.

A: So we can say Dalamud was this high military grade project that was not representative of what the average person would have access too.

MCKF: They were very technologically advanced and they tried to reach too high and that’s what brought down the wrath but you know… most of the people were down there doing their thing, listening to their iPods… (laughs) I’m not saying that Allagan technology is filled with iPods but they had their tech. They had USBs because Allagan Tomestones, all that information is in there. To a person 10,000 years in the future if there’s some kind of apocalypse on earth and someone picks up a FFXIV USB that we hand out at a Fan Fest or something they’ll be like “what is this? This is some kind of strange stone” and you plug it in and it’s just a bunch of my work documents. Some collector will collect them and give you great armor in exchange for them because someone has a little computer with a USB port on it.

A: When you guys added the Duty Finder flavor text to the first coil, we realized that the internment hulk was an actual internment hulk and turn 4 not necessarily an elevator but a drive cylinder turned into a makeshift elevator. A lot of people were wondering then if they had space ships what were they doing getting killed down here?

MCKF: Then there’s the question “So.. if they had spaceships did one or two of them get away?” I’m making my “I don’t know…. maaaaybe?” face. We all know that the Allagan civilization was destroyed because yeah, most of the people were on the ground. All of their power sources too, even if a ship did escape, there’s nothing there, fuel wise where can they go?

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http://gamerescape.com/2014/10/22/fan-fest-2014-interview-with-michael-christopher-koji-fox/

Dammit SE, give us information on Rowena's patron that you've been teasing with us since her introduction! >=( I wonder if he's an Allagan survivor or just someone like Nael who had an Allagan gizmo and rediscovered how it works? Where does the Primal theme gear come from...? Grr...

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Originally Posted by CyrusArjuna

Dammit SE, give us information on Rowena's patron that you've been teasing with us since her introduction! >=( I wonder if he's an Allagan survivor or just someone like Nael who had an Allagan gizmo and rediscovered how it works? Where does the Primal theme gear come from...? Grr...

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She or someone close to her has a pc, aka allagan receptor for usb tomestones.