Players need more power

What is the purpose of an MMO?

Sometimes I have to ask myself: is a Massively Multiplayer Online game any different from a Single Player game? With the way the games are designed at the moment, I would wager that the developers of said games don't think so. The end products we receive seem to suggest that developers of MMOs approach them in almost a similar way to how they approach single player games.

Just look at what FFXIV set out to accomplish. Tanaka stated that FFXIV was supposed to bring single player FF players to the world of MMOs. They created a world, lore, and some things to do in this world. And then they opened that world up to us players as a mere afterthought.

The same is true of WoW, FFXI, everquest. Most MMOs are made with the philosophy of "give players something to do." Generally this is in the form of quests, i suppose.

But you have to ask yourself if this mentality is really making the most of the MMO genre. With so many players playing together, you would think they would have the potential and capacity to do more than simply digest the quests and bosses/ NMs/ Raids/ Dungeons/ Instances which the developers give them.

Which brings me to the point of the thread. Players need more power, and developers should change their design philosophy from that of "give players something to do" to instead "give players the tools to make something to do."

In WoW, FFXI, Everquest, FFXIV even as a next gen MMO, we can't shape the world around us. We are merely passers by, along for the ride. And I think that falls short of the ideal for what an MMO should be.

So do you think players need more power to change and effect the world? Is there a chance of abuse? Or would you prefer to just do quests and instanced content which the developers give you? Or both?

You make a strong and good case with what you're suggesting. The problem is the amount of time and money it would take to turn a game already released into what you're saying. Though I love the idea of the "give players the tools to make something to do" philosophy that you brought up, it's so broad people could turn it into many opinions as to what you mean. So can you please elaborate on what you see that philosophy as? Such as - "what tool?", "what can you make?". "I have the sword, I can slay the monsters. In essence that is what your saying." (this is an example of what people will do to this kind of a good post here).

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Originally Posted by JasonMarkle

You make a strong and good case with what you're suggesting. The problem is the amount of time and money it would take to turn a game already released into what you're saying. Though I love the idea of the "give players the tools to make something to do" philosophy that you brought up, it's so broad people could turn it into many opinions as to what you mean. So can you please elaborate on what you see that philosophy as? Such as - "what tool?", "what can you make?". "I have the sword, I can slay the monsters. In essence that is what your saying." (this is an example of what people will do to this kind of a good post here).

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Of course what I am suggesting is nigh on infeasible in a game already released because this is the kind of philsophy that should be the foundation of a game, not a simple appendage. But there is still room for improvement to FFXIV with the addition of player-driven features.

Allow me to elaborate. I will just explain an example of what I mean.

Territory

By this I mean the ability to own land and build things on said land in the persistent game world. (There's enough copy-pasta terrain to go around so I am sure nobody will call foul on urbanisation of their precious game world).

This may sound like a petty addition, but it can lead to some interesting game features when you consider such things as turf warfare, either with other players or with aggressive NPC factions (beastmen tribes and so on).

The protection and welfare of your communities would become a priority, and your own player-community would be compelled to create your own quests as a demand rose for certain things: "create a wall here or defenses there", "dispatch the encroaching beastmen tribes so that we might remain safe".

Being able to move beyond that into small villages and even cities could lead to a political atmosphere which the players were in control of. Such player-driven content would provide countless sources for drama, mutinies, etc., with more meaningful rewards or consequences than anything the developers could write.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

What is the purpose of an MMO?

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It's a source of ongoing procrastination that lasts for years. Subscribe now, and it can be yours for the very low price of $13/month. You'll never have more fun avoiding everything else you should be doing in life.

SWG allowed for player built housing and was pretty much a necessity in the game if you wanted to do any sort of crafting, vendoring of goods, and/or storage of your stuff. Everything you built from you house, shop, and even the little processors for gathering mats for crafting required daily maintenance fees otherwise they quit working. Which if you weren't making a whole lot of credits to begin with it became more of a hassle than it was worth. (Side note people complain about the repair bill in FFXIV the one in SWG worse as you couldn't repair your gear when you died but you could insure it for a very hefty price. The better the gear the bigger the price.)

It was nice though that you would run across player run cities and towns outside of the main cities and towns but there was little to no functionality to these unless you were part of the guild. After all since these are going to be different from server to server theres no real feasible way to throw in a bunch of NPC's to hand out quests for the area.

Then there was the highly populated areas that urban sprawl just grew too large and started to influence questing. Many a times you would have to go to X location and kill Y Mobs only to find out that X location was in the middle of a player built city and it made no sense for Y Mobs to be in the city in the first place as well as making it that much more difficult to kill Y Mobs as they roamed in and out of buildings while you were locked out and always out of line of sight while trying to target them.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Of course what I am suggesting is nigh on infeasible in a game already released because this is the kind of philsophy that should be the foundation of a game, not a simple appendage. But there is still room for improvement to FFXIV with the addition of player-driven features.

Allow me to elaborate. I will just explain an example of what I mean.

Territory

By this I mean the ability to own land and build things on said land in the persistent game world. (There's enough copy-pasta terrain to go around so I am sure nobody will call foul on urbanisation of their precious game world).

This may sound like a petty addition, but it can lead to some interesting game features when you consider such things as turf warfare, either with other players or with aggressive NPC factions (beastmen tribes and so on).

The protection and welfare of your communities would become a priority, and your own player-community would be compelled to create your own quests as a demand rose for certain things: "create a wall here or defenses there", "dispatch the encroaching beastmen tribes so that we might remain safe".

Being able to move beyond that into small villages and even cities could lead to a political atmosphere which the players were in control of. Such player-driven content would provide countless sources for drama, mutinies, etc., with more meaningful rewards or consequences than anything the developers could write.

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Thank you for the example. Now that I understand what you're saying, I believe I can now more adequately reply.

We are getting housing and the ability build ships as well. This was stated in the previous months, but has been put on hold do to the need of development for the games already lacking mechanics. However, I think these suggestions would suffice to help the development team in what they do decide on for how they structure that kind of content. For instance if you've noticed, each town has another area other than the market wards, each currently un-accessible. During the alpha and beta tests it was suggested that one would be the market wards, and the other would be the area for player housing - once we found out about the idea that is.

Another possible idea is that this could be a spot used for both building houses and the ships. Being that there's really no need for ships in terms of water transportation, the development team has stated they want to find new ways of using airships and chocobos. One of those possibilities could be the development of company airships that you would not only build the ship but also the dock, hence the random airship docks you see all over the continent of Eorzea currently; of course this is speculation, but I feel that it's also somewhat valid in its conceptualization.

If any of this would be the case, it would give you most of what you want.

In an old MUD that I once played, region content was locked with passwords. It was an extremely primitive, shitty security system where anyone who had the password could enter a maintenance module that allowed room editing. As a result, some idiot renamed the starting city Castlevania and populated it with mobs that aggro.

I'm not really sure I want to see an MMO with that much player power. I mean, I really don't wanna walk out of Ul'dah and see a village called Wepwnzu. That sort of thing would totally kill this game for me.

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Originally Posted by JasonMarkle

Thank you for the example. Now that I understand what you're saying, I believe I can now more adequately reply.

We are getting housing and the ability build ships as well. This was stated in the previous months, but has been put on hold do to the need of development for the games already lacking mechanics. However, I think these suggestions would suffice to help the development team in what they do decide on for how they structure that kind of content. For instance if you've noticed, each town has another area other than the market wards, each currently un-accessible. During the alpha and beta tests it was suggested that one would be the market wards, and the other would be the area for player housing - once we found out about the idea that is.

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The trouble with instanced housing is that it only exists for you and you alone. Obviously it depends on the size of the instance, but I don't believe an MMO should be a game lobby for instanced content such as housing which no one other than yourself will ever bother to visit.

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Another possible idea is that this could be a spot used for both building houses and the ships. Being that there's really no need for ships in terms of water transportation, the development team has stated they want to find new ways of using airships and chocobos. One of those possibilities could be the development of company airships that you would not only build the ship but also the dock, hence the random airship docks you see all over the continent of Eorzea currently; of course this is speculation, but I feel that it's also somewhat valid in its conceptualization.

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Yes, first you need a system which allows for exploration (island zones etc) before you design the means of exploration (player made boats). I think the trouble with seafaring is that we have nowhere to take ships at the moment, and also the Crystal Tools engine cannot render water to save its life.

A funny example: In the original Version Update notes which they released a long time ago, they said that Company Owned ships would lead to new multiplayer content. Obviously that was deliberately kept vague because they have no idea what kind of multiplayer content they are going to add. So being able to make your own boat is kind of a step in the direction to empowering players, but it's futile at the moment.

Chocobo raising was a good feature in FFXI which gave players some freedom. Since day one, all you could do was buy a yellow chocobo from an NPC, but with the introduction of chocobo raising, that changed. It would be nice to see this expanded to being able to tame wild chocobos like how you could tame wild horses in Ultima Online.

Anyways, I'm not sure this idea of player made ships complies with the idea of giving players power. Just building a boat which takes you from A to B, while being a novel addition, doesn't allow you to change anything.

I think it's a move in the right direction though. Similarly, having a Company owned airship is a good idea too. I'm so sick of being a passenger in MMOs and never an actor in them. Being able to guide your own life, or letting other players in your Company guide your life, is something they should strive toward.

However, it should probably be noted that under Tanaka's regime, in an interview, he shot down the idea of player-run airships. He said they would not be implementing that. So im not sure if they will ever implement this.

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If any of this would be the case, it would give you most of what you want.

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I definitely think it's a step in the right direction, and definitely an improvement upon MMO predecessors.

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Originally Posted by fallacies

In an old MUD that I once played, region content was locked with passwords. It was an extremely primitive, shitty security system where anyone who had the password could enter a maintenance module that allowed room editing. As a result, some idiot renamed the starting city Castlevania and populated it with mobs that aggro.

I'm not really sure I want to see an MMO with that much player power. I mean, I really don't wanna walk out of Ul'dah and see a village called Wepwnzu. That sort of thing would totally kill this game for me.

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Well I'm in two minds about that. It does sound quite interesting! There are always villains doing crazy things in Final Fantasy games. Cities are always being overrun by invading mobs or enemies. Also, you even remembered that event from a MUD you probably played years and years and years ago. I can't think of one thing as interesting in FFXI, except maybe that belt that turned you into a worm for an hour Lol. And so there were worms popping up all over the cities.

My point is, MMOs these days are kind of forgetable.

I think a system like the one i proposed isn't very compatible in an MMO where you don't have PvP though for the exact reason you suggested. What's to stop people from being very annoying to each other and abusing their powers if players cannot rise up against them and destroy their villages etc?

So I don't know. Giving players the ability to change the world is a pursuit i think any self-respecting MMO should try to accomplish, but in an MMO with no PvP like FFXIV, there is no way for players themselves to restore balance. They wouldn't be able to quell issues themselves and abusers wouldn't have to answer to the law of PvP.

There would need to be mediation by some other method.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

What is the purpose of an MMO?

Sometimes I have to ask myself: is a Massively Multiplayer Online game any different from a Single Player game? With the way the games are designed at the moment, I would wager that the developers of said games don't think so. The end products we receive seem to suggest that developers of MMOs approach them in almost a similar way to how they approach single player games.

Just look at what FFXIV set out to accomplish. Tanaka stated that FFXIV was supposed to bring single player FF players to the world of MMOs. They created a world, lore, and some things to do in said world. And then they opened that world up to us players as a mere afterthought.

The same is true of WoW, FFXI, everquest. Most MMOs are made with the philosophy of "give players something to do." Generally this is in the form of quests, i suppose.

But you have to ask yourself if this mentality is really making the most of the MMO genre. With so many players playing together, you would think they would have the potential and capacity to do more than simply digest the quests and bosses/ NMs/ Raids/ Dungeons/ Instances which the developers give them.

Which brings me to the point of the thread. Players need more power, and developers should change their design philosophy from that of "give players something to do" to instead "give players the tools to make something to do."

In WoW, FFXI, Everquest, FFXIV even as a next gen MMO, we can't shape the world around us. We are merely passers by, along for the ride. And I think that falls short of the ideal for what an MMO should be.

So do you think players need more power to change and effect the world? Is there a chance of abuse? Or would you prefer to just do quests and instanced content which the developers give you? Or both?

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Yeah man I COMPLETELY agree with you. Whether or not FFXIV has the balls to take us there, future MMOs will head in this direction. Two promising things come to mind. One, if stats were more potent and we could reallocate them to a point of throwing ourselves off balance, that would be great. Imagine doing 5x damage but having 5x less hp. Playing with others would definitely come into use there. Two, player housing. If they let us craft our own houses, perhaps a bit like Minecraft, and put them wherever we want in the world, that would be grand.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Yeah man I COMPLETELY agree with you. Whether or not FFXIV has the balls to take us there, future MMOs will head in this direction. Two promising things come to mind. One, if stats were more potent and we could reallocate them to a point of throwing ourselves off balance, that would be great. Imagine doing 5x damage but having 5x less hp. Playing with others would definitely come into use there. Two, player housing. If they let us craft our own houses, perhaps a bit like Minecraft, and put them wherever we want in the world, that would be grand.

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Yeah, I think that sometimes SE just hates the idea of fun. Do you ever get that impression? For instance, chocobos on a 15 minute timer making you stress about getting to your destination within the alotted time period. Heaven forbid we just enjoy ourselves while riding.

SE also has a lot of hangups about giving people freedoms. This is why the armory system is so surprising, considering it's somewhat against their usual philosophy of coercing players into doing something one specific way. So maybe SE is making some progress.

One of the issues will be coding for the implementation of such systems, but the biggest issue will be making SE think they are a good idea.

Agreed, SWG was amazing in terms of player housing. When I figured out the factories and mass-production, I was absolutely astounded. The first game that brings anything like that back ... wow. That would be hard to resist.

I've never thought the purpose of my character in an MMO was to change the world. My goal has always been the joy of working with others towards a common goal. It's like working on a group project with a group of friends - there's a real sense of joy and accomplishment when everything comes together.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

developers should change their design philosophy from that of "give players something to do" to instead "give players the tools to make something to do."

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Totally agree. In fact, that's always been my problem with most "sandbox" games. Like in Star Wars Galaxies or Darkfall or any of the other ones -- I'd jump in, think the idea is cool, but then realize there's nothing but sand (though SWG was still a great experience).

I like games that give players the freedom to do what they want, but players do need to be given more tools to create their own stories.

As difficult as it would be to add those sorts of things into a game (especially one that's already been released), doing so would mean the game and its players could create their own content without any further intervention from the devs, and would ultimately add to the longevity of the game.

And, really, it all comes back to "games" vs "worlds." Most MMOs don't reach their full potential because they're just online games. Ultima Online, EVE Online (which is a great example of a game in which the majority of its content is player-created), and yeah, even SWG at least felt like worlds. WoW, EQ, and I suppose FFXIV at this point just feel like online games.

Player housing, fleshing out linkshells/guilds to have a ton of management options, politics, territory control, crafting (perhaps opening up the whole wards thing to allow players to create their own shops, etc.) -- all those sorts of things add to the "world," and give players avenues to create their own content.

Bravo! /clap

MMOs have become stagnant for the last decade with only minor innovations sprouting up now and again. The purpose of an MMO is an ever-evolving one. Companies interpret these adventures differently but I see many players/posters summarizing the experience into "themeparks".

Playing online with others isnt anything special anymore like it was in the days of XI or Everquest. We're all waiting patiently, twiddling our thumbs for the next great idea. Something to get excited about.

I believe SE is making the attempt with "Public Companies". However, it will likely have many limits and restrictions if the games current state is any forecast.

I would like to share what MMO innovation looks like. And ya know what? It's not dressed up in super HD graphics or an epic dragon crashing in from the sky to fight.

I present you with (looks @Neptune..) :
MINECRAFT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaMTedT6P0I

This is what the OP is asking big developers with deep pockets to do. Wake up and start being artists again like they were from 1987 to 1998. Do you see the dungeons in that vid? They are huge and imaginative and yet the grfx are horrible. I want to be dazzled. I want to be immersed. I want XIV to get real. HOPE AND CHANGE!

I would enjoy the ability to build a small/large kingdom in a game (not FFXIV) almost similar to what they promoted with the King of Kings 3 beta.

Supposedly a player could create a guild, invite friends who then started building their own homes while inviting more friends who repeated the proccess. Abit down the road your houses become part of a town, that town becomes a kingdom and that kingdom could be allied with another kingdom to create a Legion. Up to 6 guilds were allowed to combine into a Legion and the 6 leaders were all in somewat of a city council so no leader had power over another so to speak.

Was a pretty awesome idea when i first read it but later was told that game was terribad so I never got to try it out myself.

Heres a link to the game description: http://kingofkings3.gamigo.com/the_g...ses_and_towns/

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

I've never thought the purpose of my character in an MMO was to change the world. My goal has always been the joy of working with others towards a common goal. It's like working on a group project with a group of friends - there's a real sense of joy and accomplishment when everything comes together.

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Pity how in most MMOs the common goal you're all working towards is so futile.

I believe the less power players have in a game the better. Just look at all the ridiculously bad suggestions that have been made on these forums for changes to the game. If even 10% of those suggestions were implemented you'd have loads more people leaving the game than there would be joining it.

Turf wars, as described earlier, can be seen in games like Aion, whereby players must defend territory against NPC's and PC's. Such large scale events would not be possible in FFXIV due to graphical restrictions. I believe Aion also had plans for player housing and territory wars for the housing, from what I remember from some visions of Aion video they had a while back. Perhaps you should be playing that instead. If that's the kind of thing you're looking for, then FFXIV isn't the game for you.

That kind of gameplay isn't suitable for a casual friendly game. Only those active enough to be able to defend their territory would have any chance of enjoying the content while casual players would only be able to look at what other people have and realise it's nothing they'll ever be able to accomplish in the game. So we lose the casual player population, lose the income to the game that they provide and lose a lot of support for the game. Then we're left with a bunch of hardcore players fighting over the scraps that remain of a dead game in hope to gain some sort of 'respect' for their efforts.

At the end of the day, people have different ideas of what a good game is, hence people play different games. Instead of coming to FFXIV and trying to change it into something you want to play, you're better off finding a game you want to play. It's like a FPS player coming to FFXIV and complaining that it's not a FPS game.

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Originally Posted by Gun_Anam

I believe the less power players have in a game the better. Just look at all the ridiculously bad suggestions that have been made on these forums for changes to the game. If even 10% of those suggestions were implemented you'd have loads more people leaving the game than there would be joining it.

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Lol. Well obviously the power invested to players would be restricted to lessen the impact of poor decisions.

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Turf wars, as described earlier, can be seen in games like Aion, whereby players must defend territory against NPC's and PC's. Such large scale events would not be possible in FFXIV due to graphical restrictions. I believe Aion also had plans for player housing and territory wars for the housing, from what I remember from some visions of Aion video they had a while back. Perhaps you should be playing that instead. If that's the kind of thing you're looking for, then FFXIV isn't the game for you.

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Well, Vanguard and Ultima Online both had player housing without having turf warfare. So one can exist without the other.

I was merely providing a counterpoint to my own argument for the sake of fairness. I think turf warfare and territorial -control are features which can help stem the abuse of poorly placed housing, but they themselves come with their fair share of abuse-issues. So you have to weigh one against the other.

The way Vanguard dealth with the issue was to make specific points where houses could be built.

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That kind of gameplay isn't suitable for a casual friendly game. Only those active enough to be able to defend their territory would have any chance of enjoying the content while casual players would only be able to look at what other people have and realise it's nothing they'll ever be able to accomplish in the game.

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Again, Im not saying I am endorsing territorial control and seige warfare, and quite frankly SE is way to crappy at network coding to even make it feasible, I was just throwing it out there. But I'd like to point out that other games that have implemented player-built cities (Age of Conan, ArcheAge) made sieges consentual. You couldn't just attack whenever you wanted. You had to declare war and then both parties came to an arrangement of when they would battle.

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So we lose the casual player population, lose the income to the game that they provide and lose a lot of support for the game. Then we're left with a bunch of hardcore players fighting over the scraps that remain of a dead game in hope to gain some sort of 'respect' for their efforts.

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Wow, we're all doomed!

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At the end of the day, people have different ideas of what a good game is, hence people play different games. Instead of coming to FFXIV and trying to change it into something you want to play, you're better off finding a game you want to play. It's like a FPS player coming to FFXIV and complaining that it's not a FPS game.

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Actually, if you consider the game FFXIV was trying to be (before Yoshi came along), they seemed to be taking an unconventional approach.

If you think about crafting classes, for example, you see that the ultimate role of a crafter was supposed to be to play the market system. Tanaka said so himself. This is why the market wards had stalls with different models. Crafters could differentiate themselves in the marketplace and gain notoriety. THe system fails for several reasons, but I think if SE had allowed players to build their own persistent shops, as opposed to or in conjunction with the retainer system, then crafters could have had a new outlet to fulfill their role as a crafter.

Again, one of the telling remarks Yoshi let slip has been on the subject of "Private Companies". Originally, Private Companies were meant to be a collection of linkshells where players could build/own their own company house and build/own their own ship. Yoshi said they aren't releasing Private Companies yet because he doesn't know exactly what private companies are supposed to do.

And this is relevant because it just goes to show that some of the things I mentioned - such as player-built housing - was already slated for release.

It's not exactly a great leap to suggest they give players the ability to build their houses anywhere they want. It's not changing the fundamentals of FFXIV. In fact it's probably just improving upon them.

Most of the things people are asking for around here, as you so rightly alluded to, ARE in fact changing the basis of the game. Comparatively, I don't see why I am any worse. Besides, the original title of this thread was "players need more power" and that's what the discussion should revolve around, not just the one example I cited which you might disagree with.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

So do you think players need more power to change and effect the world? Is there a chance of abuse? Or would you prefer to just do quests and instanced content which the developers give you? Or both?

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All you have to do is play Minecraft on a public server to answer this question.

And that answer is a resounding NO.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

All you have to do is play Minecraft on a public server to answer this question.

And that answer is a resounding NO.

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But minecraft is so popular (which is remarkable for a game with such abyssmal graphics). Maybe there is some merit to a game like that, you know.

There is a game that focus on this , i really have not played it much but its based solely on what you say , Or at least what i understood you were trying to say.
Wurm online.

Practical speaking,I dont see how this could be implemented on here with current limitations.

I agree is an Awesome idea none the less.

Minecraft + MMO would be awesome, but I would wager it would be virtually impossible with current server technology. Or rather, it would be far too expensive. In addition, MMOs require a certain level of structure. If they wanted to allow us to sculpt our own lands, then what's stopping someone from smashing down Uldah? If someone builds a new and better town, what's stopping people from smashing that one down too?

I really wish MMOs would do more things with housing and maybe instanced outdoor gardening, but as far as public terrain goes I would say keep that part out of the MMO genre. Leave it to games like Minecraft and Terraria, they are quite successful in the respective genres.

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Originally Posted by Ava

Minecraft + MMO would be awesome, but I would wager it would be virtually impossible with current server technology. Or rather, it would be far too expensive. In addition, MMOs require a certain level of structure. If they wanted to allow us to sculpt our own lands, then what's stopping someone from smashing down Uldah? If someone builds a new and better town, what's stopping people from smashing that one down too?

I really wish MMOs would do more things with housing and maybe instanced outdoor gardening, but as far as public terrain goes I would say keep that part out of the MMO genre. Leave it to games like Minecraft and Terraria, they are quite successful in the respective genres.

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As I said, it need not be to the utter far end of the spectrum. On one side you have the devs controlling everything, and on the other side you have complete player freedom, but in between you have a mixture of both.

And just look at Star Wars Galaxy. Ten or so years ago they were able to implement one of the best MMO-housing systems (though it had faults) which is amusing to see it has not improved much since.

ArcheAge and Mortal Online are other recent MMOs where you can build almost anywhere. So it's not an impossibility with today's technology, nor with yesterdays'.

And if there are problems with freedom, then you just have to provide solutions and structure to overcome those problems within the framework of trying to keep as much freedom as possible.

this is but of many post i agree with giftforce by chance.. :) yes i would play that kind of MMO over any other MMO's now.

has anyone mentioned that the next two big MMOs coming out will have the feature to shape the games world, lore, and even NPC interaction with you?
the new star wars MMO and guild wars II states this will be their main feature - shaping the world around your character.
id imagine it will be to an extent but non the less this will be a technology i see advancing and becoming the norm.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

has anyone mentioned that the next two big MMOs coming out will have the feature to shape the games world, lore, and even NPC interaction with you?
the new star wars MMO and guild wars II states this will be their main feature - shaping the world around your character.
id imagine it will be to an extent but non the less this will be a technology i see advancing and becoming the norm.

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I think you meant to say TERA and ArcheAge. (Political system = TERA and Sandbox = ArcheAge)

Both GW2 and SW:ToR are typical WoW-esque games with little emphasis on player-run activities. Dynamic quest-chains isn't really the same thing as giving players power.

Damn... if that statement about bringing FF single-players into the world of MMOs was made in all serious, they have failed utterly in that endeavor. How they would think (if indeed they did think) that this MMO even matches up to any of their late single-player titles, in any aspect, is beyond me.

I'll admit that their approach to delivering the storyline was a good step in the right direction, but it is not nearly as fleshed out as it needs to be in order to even make a relative comparison...

archeage is looking pretty close to what you said mr. Gift. You will beable to shape the world around you.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

archeage is looking pretty close to what you said mr. Gift.

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you necro'd 2 of gift threads today, now i am certain you are gifthorse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

you necro'd 2 of gift threads today, now i am certain you are gifthorse.

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Yeah, I am thinking you are probably right

Here I'll share one of my ideas for player created content. It's a small idea but I'msure people can have lots of fun with it.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Company-Chests

Hello everyone,

Thank you for your comments. As this thread seems to have already run it's course, I'm going to close the thread now.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

-SQUARE ENIX MODERATOR