I really enjoyed reading most of the interviews with Yoshi and the dev team recently. Namely the RPGSite interview where Yoshi talks about the community's view on jumping and how he feels it should be in FFXIV (thank The Twelve). The mention of swimming boosted my hopes and ambitions for this game even further, and then I thought what could be stopping them from adding climbing too? These three videos (one and two and three) from the currently in-development game ArcheAge clearly show how it can be done in an MMO.
My worry is that Yoshi has already stated that they will be cutting back the expansive nature of the current maps to a more clearly defined zoned out map setup. I'm okay with this if this will improve what we have now... but he keeps using the analogy of how players don't want to experience the climb of a mountain and would rather experience a set of quicker zoning to the top. I understand why he's saying this but I can't help it feel it will cut immersion down a bit. For instance, the problems he stated that will come with climbing the mountain to get to the boss would be riddled with problems involving narrow paths with hard-to-place enemies, whereas players are then forced to spend too much time having to fight them all on the way up. Or if there were less enemies, then it would simply be a boring run up a huge mountain.
I disagree with the idea that there are only these options in creating a journey up a mountain, which is why I linked the climbing videos. There can be many ways to climb a mountain... not only slim passages. With good level design, one could imagine many ways to do it without popping us miles up each time. Yoshi stated that players just want to get to the boss, but I think players would enjoy the journey more than the end-result if it was designed creatively (i.e. players would go in and out of passages/labryinths/non-instanced dungeons within the mountain containing large cavernous areas that lead back out again to higher views of Eorzea each time we emerge to more bridges and climbing areas).
Now, I'm not against zones either (and I do believe the journey up should be zoned out a bit)... I just want to make sure that Yoshi understands there are more options other than what he's stated as drawbacks to climbing a mountain.
Yoshi-P, climbing mountains CAN be fun!!
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10-22-2011, 01:57 AMZaireeka2025Yoshi-P, climbing mountains CAN be fun!!
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10-22-2011, 02:02 AMBetelgeuzahNone of your alternatives solve this problem.Quote:
whereas players are then forced to spend too much time having to fight them all on the way up. Or if there were less enemies, then it would simply be a boring run up a huge mountain.
Immersion is completely subjective and non-quantifiable. -
10-22-2011, 03:01 AMyukikaze_yanagi
climbing the mountain in attowa chasm to do enm/cop wasn't not fun or immersive, but a huge pain in the ass. So, certain things it's better NOT replicate
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10-22-2011, 03:12 AMZaireeka2025
Let me make this a bit clearer. I'm not saying I want to replicate any type of boring system from yesteryear, nor am I saying that we should be able to climb up the WHOLE mountain. I am simply saying that, yes, it should be zoned out to skip/cut out unnecessary travelling, but that we can still traverse a lot of the mountain passage to the top without thinking that the design choices are limited to a slim passage filled with mandatory repetitive enemies to kill. Why is that the only way to climb a mountain?
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10-22-2011, 03:42 AMClaire_Pendragon
Actually I loved it, and wished they had more variation in the game like attowa chasm.
The only annoying part, was 'waiting' for the miasma vents to go down. -
10-22-2011, 10:37 AMRane
I agree with the OP. I want to enjoy the journey up a mountain, starting at the base. In an MMO, the journey is half the fun!
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10-23-2011, 04:59 PMZaireeka2025This should be hanging up in every cubicle at the dev office.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddha
"It is better to travel well than to arrive."
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10-24-2011, 10:23 PMNakiamiie
I totally like the climbing idea and, as shown in the videos, there are many possibilities for the devs to tackle with. (why not flying monsters [not the hovering kind we actually have] as well? They could attack climbers in certain areas... :D)
This is why I think climbing, swimming and jumping would be fun features to add in FFXIV, it adds to the basic foundation of FFXIV and let the devs be more creative in the development of content.Quote:
but I think players would enjoy the journey more than the end-result if it was designed creatively
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10-25-2011, 10:06 AMZaireeka2025
Amen to that! Imagine if 2.0 was introduced with all 3 of these features? I bet people would flock to the re-release like bees to honey!
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10-25-2011, 11:01 PMPayadopa
I also hope that we won't get all the maps from the very beginning. Maybe just the starting zones. :D
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10-27-2011, 12:42 AMZaireeka2025Ya well, we better have Ishgard. I'm tired of viewing it from a cliff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Payadopa
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10-27-2011, 01:46 PMMarks
I think Yoshi-P was saying that, due to the restrictive nature of the current game design, they could not make climbing a mountain fun. That is because of the way they have to reuse resources and such, he mentions it somewhere.
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10-27-2011, 03:17 PMLienn
It was discussed a while ago..."a more living eorzea" or something like this. I do agree about this...it's something we were able to se so often af old school RPGs but that were nearly inexistent in both FFXI and FFXIV. It's not needed to ba a "Tomb raider-like" climbing stuff...but some environmental interaction is always good. ^^
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10-28-2011, 08:25 AMJinkoThat thing was the most horrendous thing I've ever seen in a video game.Quote:
Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi
They could make a mini game as such to get to the top such as opening secret passage ways and activating platfroms to get up the climb, they could have it so that it was random each time. -
10-28-2011, 09:22 AMPayadopaErm.. I meant maps as in navigation, not maps as in areas. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaireeka2025
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11-02-2011, 12:55 AMQuanta
Does the OP not understand what a metaphor is or something?
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11-03-2011, 08:42 AMZaireeka2025What exactly is your point besides trying to make somebody besides yourself look dumb? Yoshi-P is using the mountain climbing example to make a point about game design. He is literally talking about the capabilities of what they can do with and without zoning. Why would he bother talking about the problems of placing enemies in narrow passages up the mountain? Is that supposed to be a metaphor about how life is a narrow path filled with unavoidable obstacles? He must be a Buddhist monk if that's the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quanta
Besides, if it is purely metaphor then he is still focusing it on the "destination" being what's most important. My metaphoric response was that the "journey" is what is more important, which I've stated in this thread.
Think before you post. Nobody likes a smartass (and no, I'm not literally calling you a smart donkey). -
11-03-2011, 08:47 AMZaireeka2025It's from the RPGSite interview that I linked in the OP. I started the thread in response to this interview.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marks
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11-09-2011, 01:40 AMPSxpert2011
Jumping, swimming, rock-climbing, aaaaaaaaaaaaahh, all those things you take for granted but stay inside playing video games. Give me a break!
What do you want to do next, FLY?? (at-least give us a jumpin, swimmin and flyin chocobo!)
("the twelve have mercy") -
11-10-2011, 12:38 AMNakiamiieThis thread? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Lienn