Buff priority on DPS

This is an AST question, but since it concerns DPSers, I thought it would be better to ask on the DPS forums instead.

Are there any card buffs that would be great on a specific DPS class and are there any card buffs that would be bad to use on a DPS class?

I asked around and the answers I got were not to use "The Spear" on Ninjas and not to use "The Ewer" on BLMs since it might ruin their rotation. Is this correct?

Various opinions on this sorta thing and also bare in mind each person can have different tastes on what they do and dont like to be buffed with.

Not using Ewer on a BLM is typically correct as it can mess things up; only in rare circumstances and something that has been pre-coordinated would this ever be used tbh.
Ewers are a good use on BRD' who use songs like Foes as it lets them do so longer. Otherwise self use usually, or a very rare PLD who messes up.

Never tbh heard of "dont use spear on NIN", i mean generally spear is semi-useful for anyone; sure some people wont see the point because they use cooldowns at specific times so it doesnt matter if it comes back up early but then, well if you do get speared no one is forcing you to use things earlier so. Personally i find Spear to be SMN/Healer/Tank bait if i have to use it

If it was The Arrow on NIN id understand, in general content it may be fine but for higher stuff i think generally a lot if not all melee dont like Arrow due to TP floor.
Never had a view point from BRD/MCH about Arrow so idk.
Typically BLM will like Arrow, maybe certain circumstances where they wont want more speed but idk them.
Generally wasted on SMN ive found, sure it works but wont change much.

and ofc balance is EVERYONE
also unless its changed, hitting everyone even in 4man duties with an aoe balance > enhanced or extended on a single person
unless you have on in spread and draw another
then your laughing



as always i could be wrong about stuff and this is partial opinion/what ive found so

Ewer on BLM can be helpful. No, it doesn't mess with our rotation, the only negative is the BLM can get greedy with more than he can handle timer wise, but it's not always a help either, depending on when you used it. I would rather it get used on BRD or a very DPS heavy healer, or, most preferably, Royal Road it.

Arrow belongs to BLM. DRG/BRD/MCH love it too but not quite so much. NIN can't make as great a use out of it as it messes with DoT timers pretty constantly. MNK doesn't like it on average due to TP concerns. SMN is bottom priority, you can only do so many Ruin 3s in Dreadwyrm Trance with or without an Arrow regardless, and getting more Ruins isn't exactly a thrilling use of Arrow.

Balance typically goes to the top DPS in your comp, and fight specifically. If you have a BRD and caster, typically caster will be one of if not the top DPS in the group. If you have a MCH and otherwise your top DPS is a NIN or DRG, go for the NIN/DRG. If you have an AoE heavy situation, the AoE heavier classes will get more, like a SMN. If you have people who are more geared than others, or are particularly skilled compared to the others, go for that person; trust me a strong BRD/MCH without a DRG will destroy the average PUG BLM/MNK.

Spire's typically not needed but MNK gets the most use out of it by far. Royal Road or Redraw it more often than not.

Spire can be really useful for PLD. Not really answering your question about what DPS needs what, but thought I'd throw that in. This is only necessary in really long fights, though, or fights that need a lot of stunning (Shield Bash costs a nut and a half in TP).

As for Spear, the only DPS job that I can see truly benefitting in a very regular basis is SMN, since they have a whole load of OGCs that they use all the time and aren't fixed to a set rotation. If you have a fellow Scholar, it can help them too.

Not sure if this pertains to your enquiry, but Ewer on Bard is good for more up time on songs.

Spear is nice on Drg/Mnk since they have plenty of OCD abilities to abuse with it, just a suggestion if you don't have any balance to hand out :)

Spear will affect Elixirs field on mnk 100% (they changed the duration of spear to 30sed right?) And 50% chance it affects both elixir field and howling fist. Then we have couple of stuns that are ok quite fast CDs so might affect them too. So ever so slightly dps boost possibly. And if there is a downtime within the fight where you can't keep GL3 in anyway or form thworing arrow on the mnk will get him back to full dmg slightly fastet (and shouldNT have tp issues cause downtime. Also note that this applies only if mnk used PB at opener and it's been less than 3 minutes.)

Some mnk perspective I could give, probably I could use Spire in longer fight with less downtimes (if I can't get purification done) so I can keep using ToD easier (cri 80tp) though if the tank has no TP use it on tank. I will eventually have invigorate up and/or brd will be singing anyway

Thanks for the answers, everyone!

Spear is the CD reducing one? Yes please as bard at ~7s prepull if you would be so kind - since starting poping CDs at 5s with battlevoice and then others at 3-4s. And I believe MCH would benefit the same.

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Originally Posted by SecretCrowds

Thanks for the answers, everyone!

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Agreed, likes up for everyone so far. You've all given such astounding information for specifics on each job. I stopped AST at 50 prior to 3.2 and now I plan to take it up against as I get settled. These are all wonderful notes to put aside to refer to. Again, from an inspiring AST thanks everyone.

Just wanted to give my thanks to the DPS community for what's been posted so far.

As a BLM, Ewer is just a waste to spend on me. There are a few times where it can be helpful if coordinated, but 90+% of the time give it to someone that uses MP and doesn't have a bottomless pit of it.

Arrow throws off my AoE rotation, and won't give any bonus half the time. Save it for a Boss fight.

edit: Balance on AoE makes stuff melt, especially when combined with Foes

Spear is pretty meh for BLM, I'm sure there's dps that can get mcuh more out of it, or the tank

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

As a BLM, Ewer is just a waste to spend on me. There are a few times where it can be helpful if coordinated, but 90+% of the time give it to someone that uses MP and doesn't have a bottomless pit of it.

Arrow throws off my AoE rotation, and won't give any bonus half the time. Save it for a Boss fight.

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This. All of this. Ewer I suppose could be nice, but give it to the healers I'd say. Or a BRD who needs it due to song singing. As for Arrow? If I'm going to sit there and blow the heck out of a boss then yes, give me Arrow. AoE though? Please don't. I don't even use Leylines for AoE pulls. It screws up your mana ticks and you can be stuck waiting for a tick, tranpose, etc, etc.

The reason you were told not to put Spear on NIN I assume is because it lowers the time before they can do their next mudra thing which I bet is pretty confusing. Don't play NIN myself though so no idea how good/bad the impact is.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is Spear v DRG - please don't? The whole rotation is incredibly tightly tuned the way it is and our natural timers work incredibly well together. In a shorter fight, Spear would definitely help a DRG, but in an extended 9-12 minute fight, all you're doing is de-syncing our cooldowns or having us sigh heavily as we sit on stuff to re-align it all. D:

Primarily Blood of the Dragon - it fits neatly in 60s. Getting the duration shortened doesn't really help too much, unless it's up a full combo earlier than normal, and even then, we'd need to plan really far in advance for that to work out well.

I tend to also dislike Arrow, too, for similar reasons, but that's much easier to work with than Spear is. My dislike of Arrow is absolutely personal preference, since it does help quite a lot.

Ewer on a blm shouldn't mess up their rotation unless they do something stupid, but on the other hand it serves no benefit either; we are still going to make the same number of casts then refresh ourselves up to full mp. We benefit much more from arrow, as we have infinite resources and quicker casts allow for more mobility, our inherent weakness.

Bole and balance are fairly obvious.
As Jack said, a random spear can make some CDs come out of alignment. A spread spear pre-pull can be pretty decent, as all CDs will come back up a little earlier.
Healers take priority for Ewer, probably then BRD( or MCH) if they have a song up, and lastly SMN (tho they can usually manage their own mp, unless they've been helping out with rezzes)
Spire on anyone that's been rezzed, or a tank, or then anyone that's running low

Spear/Ewer/and Spire are most likely to be your RR fodder, as they are more situational

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Originally Posted by randysquirrel

We benefit much more from arrow, as we have infinite resources and quicker casts allow for more mobility, our inherent weakness.

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Arrow is a complete waste for AoE though, the bottleneck in AoE is transpose and arrow doesn't help there. Spear is much better for AoE, we get more use out of RS, QS, Transpose, Convert and SC. All key components to our AoE damage.

As a BLM Please never give me Ewer. I can't imagine a time it would ever be helpful. I have been screwed out of a Flare or dropped out of Enochian because my MP didn't match up with my fingers and it took me too long to figure out what I was doing. Ewer on a BLM is messing with muscle memory and possibly their timers if they don't notice and get an "extra" spell off.

I'll take the others though. Especially on my opener on a boss fight cuz more damage or faster Ley Lines is awesome. With the arrow and a little PIE I might be able to get off 7 F4's in my openers. That's an extra 4-12k damage depending.
That said, arrow is always good, it doesn't actually mess with your mana ticks. But it does only have a limited effect on AoE rotation.

Well, it really depends on the person you are playing with.
Personally as a NIN I would appreciate a Spear, specially on the opener, since cooldowns will be back sooner and that means more DPS from my part =-=a

Yea, some skills may get off aligment a bit but a lot of them are already like that because of mechanics... for example, seph's first sphere + rings aling precisely with my 2nd TA which makes it quite difficult to input, so it coming a bit sooner would help me place a 2nd TA into it no problem.

I also do welcome Arrow now... with Spinning Edge costing 10 less TP it really became hard to deplete soooo, yep.

Balance, always try to spread this on everyone. I only see this as a good throw on one person if that one person is outperforming the rest by a considerable margin... which usually shouldn't be the case... unless you are comparing the AoE of a SMN vs a NIN.

While leveling AST, I use cards based on what's happening with the group I'm in. For example:

I had a BLM and DRG in my group. The tank was mass-pulling, so I would give the BLM "Balance".

When I had a NIN and BRD, I would give NIN "Arrow" and give BRD "Spear".

Please don't give NINs Arrow, we have enough problems with GCD clipping without having a sub 2s GCD cos of a card.

Arrow:

Very useful:

• BLM

  Reasoning: BLMs love spell speed. Makes working wtih Enochian easier and is a straight DPS increase because no resource management beyond timers.

Situationally useful:

• MNK

  Debatable whether this should go into very useful or situationally useful, but I've witnessed MNKs running into TP problems too if they stack skill speed. It's a straight damage increase, but if there's not enough downtime for them to pop Purification or get natural TP regen, Arrowing a MNK might run him out of TP pretty quickly.

• DRG

  Reasoning: An Enhanced Arrow used at the right point in a DRG's opener lets them do an entire extra fourth combo over the duration of the card. If you're going to do this, communicate with your DRG beforehand. Otherwise, avoid using it because it can cause TP problems

• BRD:

  Reasoning: With the addition of WM, BRDs are mini-casters. They're a bit less DoT-dependent than SMN, which is why I have them up here. It does increase their DPS, but be aware that TP starving a BRD will cause him to TP song sooner (or when he'd normally never have to), and the DPS loss from that will probably outweigh the small gain from Arrow. Also affects Empyreal recast time, which is more damage.

Avoid/worthless:

• NIN:

  Reasoning: AVOID AT ALL COSTS PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. You'll run a NIN's TP out even faster than normal. They have enough problems as it is, don't add to it.

• MCH:

  Reasoning: At best, an Arrow would MAYBE help them fit in another GCD for Wildfire. Other than that, MCH doesn't really benefit much from a lower GCD.

• SMN:

  Reasoning: Similar to MCH, at best an Arrow would MAYBE allow another Ruin 3 cast inside DWT. Since it's not a spell speed increase, DoTs don't benefit from it at all.

Spear:

Very useful:

• MCH:

  Reasoning: You will ALWAYS hit a Quick Reload and Gauss Round use with a Spear. This is a straight damage increase

• NIN:

  Reasoning: Same as MCH. You will ALWAYS hit a Ninjutsu use with a Spear. More Ninjutsus = more damage.

Situationally useful:

• SMN:

  Reasoning: It's helpful if the Spear is up when a SMN uses Aetherflow, and it might (?) be useful in the opener to make timing Festers a bit more flexible. Other than that there's not really a purpose.

• MNK:

  Reasoning: MNKs don't have a guaranteed CD you'll hit with a non-extended Spear, but it's pretty likely you'll hit Elixir Field. That's a shorter cooldown for a 220 potency attack. If you don't have any of the very useful jobs in your party, I'd say MNK is the next-best DPS job.

• BRD:

  Reasoning: In theory, you always hit a Bloodletter use with this. However, BRDs also get Bloodletter reset by a crit Windbite/VB tick. Doesn't affect Empyreal, so it's a solid "maybe" on if it's useful for Bloodletter.

Avoid/worthless:

• BLM:

  Reasoning: Nearly all of a BLM's cooldowns are quite long. Aetherial Manipulation isn't something that's kept on CD, so it doesn't really matter if you hit it with a Spear. The only case where it might be useful is if you and the BLM communicate beforehand about when he's going to pop Enochian and have a short cycle that will require him to drop Enochian before 60s pass (due to movement, etc).

• DRG:

  Reasoning: A DRG's rotation is very strictly set up to optimally rotate cooldowns. Additionally, they don't have anything you're guaranteed to hit in the Spear's duration. The only use might be to shorten Battle Litany's CD at the beginning of a pull, but if it's a single-target Spear at the start of a pull, you're better off using it on nearly anyone else.

Ewer:

Very useful:

• BRD, MCH:

  Reasoning: If a BRD or MCH is singing, a Ewer on them negates the MP cost and allows for the song to last longer. Casters will love you for Ewering a BRD singing Foe. Slightly less useful for MCH because MP is only drained for TP/MP regen, but still very useful

Situationally useful:

• SMN:

  Reasoning: If a SMN is using Ruin 3 outside of DWT, this will help him recoup the MP loss. Also useful over a sustained fight. In general not needed, but can boost his damage.

• BLM:

  Reasoning: VERY SITUATIONAL. I have a decent amount of experience with MP regen on a BLM during Sephirot EX, because my healers need MP song post-ult. If you coordinate with your BLM, he CAN get an extra F4 cast out of a Ewer. This only works if he knows exactly what he's doing. Generally speaking, it's better off used on a healer.

Spire:

Very useful:

• DRG, MNK, NIN, BRD, MCH:

  Reasoning: TP starving is happening more and more often. Especially on NIN it helps push their out of TP time back. But a Spire is going to be appreciated by every TP-using job. I personally recommend giving it out one at a time to whoever needs it most instead of Expanding it. If there's a lot of downtime in the fight, you'll hopefully never need to pop it.

Not useful:

• BLM, SMN:

  Reasoning: Duh.

Balance should be given according to your sense. In order of usefulness, Expanded > Enhanced > Extended. But do use your head. If you're in a light party and you have a very well-geared MNK, a PLD who stays in Shield Oath the entire time, a second DPS job that you know is doing bad DPS (determine this however you'd like) and you're not doing much DPS, an Enhanced on the MNK probably beats out an Expanded. But everyone benefits from it, nobody gonna complain about getting a Balance or not make use of it.

Bole: Nice joke.

As a SMN I'll gladly take all those ewers the BLMs don't want. Ruin 3 outside of DWT eats a ton of MP.