It is known that Ul'Dah was in the past a city of Lalafels and therefore it's royal family, politics and I believe most nobles are in reason most made of Lalafels as well, Nanamo Ul Namo stands as the supposely head of the state with Raubhan Aldynn is the general of the Immortal Flames.
So who is the real leader here? The Syndicate, Nanamo or Raubahn?
Nanamo powers are limited by the syndicate and she oftens seeks the help of Raubahn, which is very loyal to her, to use his influence and power to help her, I believe her position as a sultana is also basically kept by Raubahns doings, the Syndicate is just a bunch of nobles, in gameplay as well Raubhan also appears more than Nanamo in every cutscene, join in reunions, has more presence, even in the very end of a Real Reborn it was Raubahn who crossed weapons with the other leaders of the great companies!
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Raubhan Aldynn is the true leader of Ul'Dah?
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02-25-2016, 07:28 AMCaffekonRaubhan Aldynn is the true leader of Ul'Dah?
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02-25-2016, 07:29 AMCaffekon
So we conclude Raubahn is in fact the true leader of Ul'Dah and he can kick out Nanamo at anytime, as he has no reason for that, I have high reasons to believe he is in love as well
:rolleyes: -
02-25-2016, 07:43 AMAnonymoose
The balance of power between Nanamo and Raubahn is in itself a conspiracy of their own making, believe it or not. After Sasabal and Nanasha (Nanamo's parents) died (though I'm not sure how they died), Nanamo was a rather young inheritor of the crown. In such a situation, a wanna-be-oligarchy such as the Syndicate can either turn the child into a puppet or attempt to brush their power aside.
Nanamo is not a willing puppet, but she is predictable and thus easily out-maneuverable.
Raubahn was a refugee from Ala Mhigo that rose to fame on the Bloodsands of the Coliseum. It was during this time that he and Nanamo came to a secret arrangement - the details of which are still kind of murky. With her support and friendship, he won so many matches that he overtook the owner of the Coliseum in wealth, securing his place on the Syndicate.
When he won that match in 1570 Sixth Astral Era, before he'd even left the field, Nanamo raced out to confirm him (leaving her retainers in the dust and jumping into his arms, because teenage lalafell), and the first thing he did was whisper that he'd fulfilled his promise to her, publicly kneel and pledge his sword, and lift her up for all to see. From his place on the Syndicate, Raubahn was able to start pushing back against the erosion of her power by the Monetarist faction (Teledji, Lolorito, perhaps Fyrgeiss).
Precisely what Nanamo's end of the bargain is, though, I don't fully understand. You'd expect he would have asked for specific aid to the refugees or committal of military resources to the re-taking of Ala Mhigo, but, instead, Raubahn has become the very public face of Ul'dah's might and the Sultana's wishes.
You're right - he probably could ensure her downfall. But probably at the cost of his own. He's the linchpin of the turning tide.
Perhaps we'll learn more about it if we move to re-take Gyr Abania from the Garlean Empire... -
02-25-2016, 08:18 AMMorningstar1337
Given the scene at the Allience's moment of almost-surrender, and the recent Grand Melee, its seems like Nanamo might be the representative of the Alliance in general (and possibly de facto leader) while Raubahn is the repersentative of Ul'Dah, but both sharing power over that city-state when it comes to local politics.
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02-25-2016, 08:19 AMTheodricI hope they're not in love. It's a pretty creepy size and age difference...and interracial relationships are supposedly frowned upon by many in this setting but we seem to see more people completely fine with it than we do who are against it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caffekon
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02-25-2016, 08:28 AMSekundessounet
ISn't Lolorito a sultanist ?
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02-25-2016, 08:32 AMRoclAbsolutely not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekundessounet
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02-25-2016, 08:37 AMCaffekonOMG NANAMO IS SO CUTE!How retaking Gyr Abania might unfold more about the politics in Ul'Dah? imo I believe the answers are within the Ul'Dah~Ala'Mhigo axis, now that you exposed that Nanamo's parents, the previous rulers died in an unknown way might be related with the Syndicate, I suppose...Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
Another big mistery are the whereabouts of the Royalists, what happened with them? I think Raubhan is the only royalist within the syndicate now, what happened before him? What could had happened before him? Maybe one of the reasons Nanamo rushed for Raubhan was to save her own skin too! There is a silent revolution happening in Ul'Dah... :( -
02-25-2016, 09:00 AMAstralKaos
Now if you the topic title was "Raubahn is going to be the true ruler of Ala Mhigo" then the answer is...
As for who the true ruler of Ul'dah is, it's a mixture and tangled web of answers, but the short of it is, who knows. Syndicate, seem to have way more sway than Raubahnamo in Ul'dah and goings on in Thanalan itself, though the political stuff for everywhere else is handled by Raubahnamo as well as what wars and fights Ul'dah puts itself in.
It's... not exactly clear, to me anyway. So all of them are in charge? -
02-25-2016, 09:38 AMChewy2ndI've always thought this too, IIRC she was the one doing the speech at the Ishgard ceremony at the end of 3.0 too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morningstar1337
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02-25-2016, 09:58 AMEnkidoh
Well, as Moose already mentioned, Ul'dah's government is kind of complicated - officially and legally it's a Sultanate with an autocratic head of state (as in, Nanamo), but, the Sultana's actual power had been eroded years ago due to the merchants and businessmen and women who keep the gil flowing into the city (thus can easily cut said trade off and paralyze the city) becoming the real power behind the throne, thus the nation is more accurately and effectively an oligarchy/plutocracy. The Sultana still has some sway, but she seems to be little more than a compliant rubber stamp on legislation and thus cannot resolve deadlocks (This was shown in 2.2 when the Syndicate voted not to help the Domans and Nanamo could not interfere).
This coupled with the fact the only remaining Royalist on the Syndicate is Raubahn (although Lolorito despite being a Monetarist still does secretly support the Sultana, at least trying to keep the status quo in place - I mean, he could have seized control of the city following the whole banquet affair but instead he conspired to create a complicated Batman gambit to eliminate Teledji and protect the Sultana and her position, and Dewlala is more neutral), it's not hard to see how the Syndicate managed to rival or even exceed the power of the traditional Sultanate.
Even after that though, Raubahn is also effectively the military commander of Ul'dah, as his position of leader of the Immortal Flames, Ul'dah's Grand Company. Unlike the other city states, until the Grand Companies were reformed, Ul'dah actually did not have a permanent standing professional army - there was the elite unite of knights (that is, paladins) the Sultansworn who served as the personal royal guard of the Sultana, but apart from that there was no actual 'Ul'dah Army' or anything, instead the Sultanate made use of non-professional mercenaries and sellswords grouped under several individual units (the Brass Blades and the Stone Torches are examples of this). Because such mercenaries were directly paid by members of the Syndicate for their service instead of the Sultanate, it's not hard to see how their loyalties towards the throne might turn out to be rather questionable.
Accordingly, when the Immortal Flames were established just prior to the Calamity, this led to further tension in the Syndicate as the Royalists now had an effective army of their own and could theoretically rival the individual private armies of the Syndicate if things ever took a turn for the worse (which very nearly happened after the 'assassination', but thankfully it didn't come to that).
Either way, in regards to Raubahn and Nanamo's relationship and who is the actual leader of Ul'dah, think of it like this - Nanamo is the legal ruler, the Sultana, and Raubahn is her military leader, the one responsible for defending the city and representing the city as head of their Grand Company in the Alliance, and that together the two share power of ruling the citystate. Please feel free to clarify or criticize any mistakes I've inevitably made though! :D
Maybe that is indeed the case - remember back to when the Warrior of Light is fleeing Ul'dah after the banquet and first encounters Pipin - he states that he's been "at the Ala Mhigian Front" for an extended period, strongly suggesting that the Immortal Flames at least are undertaking some kind of long-term military action at Ala Mhigo against the Garlean occupation - given Raubahn's Ala Mhigan origins this would just would make perfect sense for something that Nanamo herself would support (as the Immortal Flames are rather stretched personnel and resources wise, the fact he was able to dedicate manpower to such an operation seems to make that even more likely). But nothing is known for certain other than this statement by Pipin so take from that what you will. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
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02-25-2016, 10:00 AMMorningstar1337No, he is to the Monetarists what Eldibus is to the Ascians (well Lolorito and Dewlala). Acting only in the interest of preserving order. It was his plan to have Raubahn kill Teledji AND induce Nanamo's torpor, as to preserve the Status QuoQuote:
Originally Posted by Sekundessounet
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02-25-2016, 01:10 PMPhylloGyr Abania = area / Ala Mhigo = city, retaking Gyr Abania is the same thing as retaking Ala MhigoQuote:
Originally Posted by Caffekon
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02-25-2016, 02:19 PMValkyrie-Amber
I think Raubhan is more a spokes person for both the syndicate and sultania. msqwise this is more likely reason nanomo doesnt lead the flames is cause she cant fight like Raubhan, so in place of Nanomo Raubhan manages the flames and is uldahs spokesperson but not leader.
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02-25-2016, 11:26 PMKallera
I don't even think he would have a desire to take the throne if Nanamo died and people decided to buck tradition and ask him. He certainly doesn't have any hint of ambition compared to other folk that do, he'd probably only take charge to stave off any damage the interregnum would cause, until a proper leader was named.
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02-26-2016, 05:24 AMChie_RushiiI think we all know what her benefits are. *nudge, nudge, wink, wink*Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
In all seriousness though, it's hard to hold power without the backing of the military. What better way than to take the bull by the horns. ;) <3 *slowly nods knowingly* -
02-29-2016, 06:40 AMCaffekonI suppose Nanamo is already an adult despite her appearance, to me Raubhan looks more like an old but healthy man, full of scars, old and wilt face, but healthy, we don't need to go to further details, don't you think? I doubt that such thing will happen in the game as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
Regarding general relationships between different races, I don't see any problem, we don't need to get to details, it just needs to be cute! -
03-01-2016, 05:27 AMnukemindThere are still a few problems. This mainly has to do with a physical relationship as opposed to emotional, for one reason- as the Sultana, unless she converts to a democracy, she MUST have an heir or risk Uldah falling to the Syndicate or anarchy. In monarchies Heirs are necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caffekon
A.- It's possible Lalafell-Hyur relationships would be unable to reproduce.
B.- It's possible the child of such a union would be sterile.
C.- Assuming neither A nor B are true, the difference in size between the Hyur and Lalafell race could pose both pregnancy and birth problems.
D.- Assuming NONE of these are true, such a child may not be respected, having a weak claim to the throne and diluting a "pure" blood line.
Monarchies are all about the monarchs. I know all that is more technical stuff, but it's important. As you can imagine, I am SO much fun at parties. -
03-01-2016, 05:36 AMFrederick22Lets not try to to talk such details xDQuote:
Originally Posted by nukemind
Remeber that we are on a word of magick/ sci-fi. So the biological and cultural "rules" that are on our world may not be the same than on ffxiv world.
This is not like making a progrency born of a donkey and horse. Fings very differently here.
Also the privacy life of a mornarch is not own consern. Is not something known to the public. But it wouldnt be the first time we heart iof ot, so is very possible given their "mutual" friendship. If it happens to be, I wouldnt be surprised. -
03-01-2016, 05:40 AMnukemindI understand what you are saying, and I hesitated to make that post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick22
But at the end of the day we can't waive everything away with magic. Yes, indeed, a donkey and a horse are different than a Lala and a Hyur. BUT, there could still be a different number of Chromosomes, or whatever makes up the various races of Eorzea. Even with magic I just can't see such a union working, biologically or politically. -
03-01-2016, 05:43 AMFrederick22Its possible, countless monarchs have "lovers" in their privacy lifes. I dont see how would be different.Quote:
Originally Posted by nukemind
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03-01-2016, 05:45 AMnukemindTrue, Catherine the Great and the French Mistresses being the most overt examples, but they never took them as their "Main Squeeze" for lack of a better word. Heck, look at Marie Antoinette. She was an Austrian Princess not a commoner, the public hated her, and it, in conjunction with famine, led to the downfall of the monarchy. Monarchies just don't intermingle with commoners outside of fairy tales. It doesn't make sense politically or diplomatically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick22
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03-01-2016, 06:00 AMFrederick22Well Raubahn is not a common men. He already has a kind of potilical/militar figure.Quote:
Originally Posted by nukemind
Also the Mornarchy that is on U'lah is not the same as the England, so is not something that can be prove with evidence of our real world. -
03-05-2016, 10:27 PMCaffekonI see your point, it makes a lot of sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by nukemind
I suppose out of the players sphere (no restrictions) such relationship between the races are rather unusual or even inexistencial in the lore, every real couple I've seen in the game are of the same race, but I've also seen hookers in many points of Eorzea engaging in interracial flerting, but that's all, maybe Square just inserted such flertings for the sake of ambience building.
In the game itself there arent any clues of hybrids anywhere, I suppose for a question of design and to avoid trouble they simply choose to ignore the matter, as I said we don't really need to think deep in a fantasy game. :rolleyes: -
03-06-2016, 06:50 AMUnittj
If you don't think the story/lore of this game is deep thought, take a moment to read some of Koji's lore posts. There's a lot of conceptualization put into this game, and unfortunately, "cause it's cute" doesn't provide sufficient reason why it should be canonical. Of course, that doesn't stop fan fiction. But the reality of it all is that the sultana is in her early 20s and Raubahn is way older than that. The age gap for a relationship to happen is hard to accept on certain moral and ethical axes. I honestly hope the concept doesn't leave fan fiction. It's odd. Now if Nanamo was 35+? I might consider it.
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03-10-2016, 02:59 AMAnnanaWe don't know a lot about relationships and marriages in Eorzea. I can't remember too many references to interracial relationships.Quote:
Originally Posted by nukemind
There are the two treasure hunters from Wanderer's Palace/WPHM, who mention that they are a couple and that it's not that they're both men, but that they're different races that caused them to receive abuse. There's also Hilda, who is half Hyur and Half Elezen.
Eorzea doesn't seem to have any problem with same sex relationships given that there are male Elezen soldiers propositioning each other, bathing Miqo'te inviting female adventurers to join them, Haurchefant being Adventurer-sexual, and of course the Eternal Bonding not restricting genders (though Eternal Bonding's 'canon' status is up for debate considering that it ignores race, which again doesn't seem to be well accepted). -
03-10-2016, 11:29 PMHinoto-no-Ryuji
More than age gap, more than race, more than anything, it's the lack of any real evidence that makes me doubt that kind of intimacy between the two. Of course they're close, but I've never gotten the vibe of sexual intimacy off them. Urianger and Moenbryda gave off more of that than Raubahn and Nanamo; hell, Thancred and Y'Shtola give off more of that than them. I think all evidence points to it being a pretty chaste relationship, intimate in other ways though it may be.
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03-11-2016, 03:11 AMFrederick22
I only said that was a possibility, not that actually is happening.
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03-11-2016, 05:09 PMKaeruHeroIt isnt well accepted among Eorzeans but we aren't Eorzeans, who knows we could come from a more liberal land where interbreeding between races is a common thingQuote:
Originally Posted by Annana
(Although the fact that none of us adventurers are a mixture of species does probably support your statement, so maybe not common but still accepted) -
03-11-2016, 05:13 PMAlistaire
Yup, he runs the show...single-handedly.
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03-11-2016, 06:33 PMFJeromeI think Adventurers get away with mixed-race bondings precisely because we are Adventurers and our entire thing is being outside the normal social structure. The couple that leads off the Wanderer's Palace HM quest talk about this a bit, that part of the reason they got into the life was it was easier to be together that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Annana
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03-11-2016, 07:45 PMmosaicexUh, Hilda the Mongrel?Quote:
Originally Posted by Caffekon
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03-12-2016, 09:27 PMCaffekonOh boy you got me hereQuote:
Originally Posted by mosaicex
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03-16-2016, 10:27 PMConfidence_Trick
As an aside, 'Raubahn Aldynn' is not his real name but an alias devised for his gladiatorial career. His real name is Hector Smallpiece.
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04-05-2016, 03:07 AMVergillSource? Still on the end quests on the main storyline of ARR, so i don't know much of what's happening in HW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Confidence_Trick
But on the matter of Raubahn and Nanamo: They're not a couple. If you take into account that we're talking about monarchs here, age is something that it doesn't really matter when making political marriages, so the fact that Nanamo is a young adult lalafell and Raubahn is on the end of his middle age doesn't really matter much. But the question here is not if it's possible for they to love each other, nor if they're biologically compatible or if the eorzean or ul'dahn society would allow: The true question here is how they see and feel about each other. Raubahn and Nanamo like themselves. Not in a romantic/sexual way, but as family, y'know? -
04-05-2016, 10:49 PMBelhi
I think Raubahn is almost a father figure to Nanamo or an Uncle at least. She was very young when she came to power and he has been older figure with good leadership skill she can trust and turn to for advice.
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04-08-2016, 03:26 AMKosmos992k....I'm not at the end of the 3.0 story arc yet, so events yet to unfold for me may alter some of the following...Quote:
Originally Posted by Belhi
They strike me as great friends with an almost familial relationship similar to an older (and protective) brother and a younger sister. They almost seem to be soul-mates. It's very possible for two people to be soul-mates without being romantic, or even interested in romance with each other. Sometimes that intimate friendship takes on the feeling of a familial relationship, romance doesn't fit into that type of situation.
Whenever I see them interact, Raubahn seems to be not only protective, but proactively protective of Nanamo - like an elder brother is of his younger sister. At the same time as Nanamo leans on him for support, she also appears to trust him absolutely. Their friendship is clearly very intimate (as in close) because they frequently look to each other as something is about to be said, or a decision is needed, and all it takes is that glance and a nod and they know what to say/do. There is something about their relationship that we don't know that allows for the absolute trust Nanamo feels toward Raubahn and facilitates Raubahn's absolute devotion to Nanamo.
Actually, their relationship reminds me of the rich girl/poor boy relationship between Hayate and Nagi in Hayate Combat Butler. Rich girl Nanamo in some way made it possible for Raubahn (poor boy) to escape his situation (saving his life) and then rise to relative riches. Raubahn owes her for whatever it is that she did, it's a life debt he feels he cannot ever repay, and so he devotes himself to protecting Nanamo and her interests. Which is why during and after the banquet scene he is so distraught and angry (with himself too) because he failed protect Nanamo. His leadership of the Immortal flames is obviously secondary to his role as Namamo's greatest ally and protector, and his interest in Ul'Dahn politics seems very minor in the absence of Nanamo.